View Full Version : 1JZ GTE Manual or 2JZ GTE Auto?
What would you prefer?
I do love a manual but is it worth the sacrificing of not getting a 2JZ?
I would also love a 2JZ but is it worth sacrificing the manual?
well.... 2JZ would be better, maybe u can convert to manual later..;)
skizz:D
HoonBoy
08-06-02, 08:26 PM
What about a 2JZ with 1JZ box?
Whats the car and what do you want it for?
TRD-KINGSWOOD
08-06-02, 09:37 PM
What car??
What Mods do you intend on doing??
It's all relative!!
I am thinking about doing a conversion into an mx83 Cressida
It will primarily be used as an every day driver.
With probably just the basic moods 3-inch exhaust, intercooler and boost increase
TRD-KINGSWOOD
08-06-02, 10:10 PM
Ah ok.
The 1j manual would be more fun and put out about 10-15 less RWKW with the same mods, but more than likely faster down the quarter.
The 2j auto would make a better daily driver. (Max output, stock turbo's, no NOS = 242 RWKW)
A 1j, stock turbos max output= 225 RWKW
Major mods to either of these will need $$$, for example a nice street twin plate clutch is $1800, a tricked up A340e auto is probably more.
so how much power can the stock auto handle?
Thanks
TRD-KINGSWOOD
08-06-02, 10:23 PM
It's not the power, it's your driving style. A stock 7m can fry one if you do some hard launches and stall it up.
A stock clutch (NEW) will handle over 200 RWKW but when it gets a bit worn/contaminated. It's porked!!
Cressida = luxobarge. A torquey 3 litre engine with an auto sounds perfect! Go the 2JZ.
The 1JZ is a much more rev-happy engine with not as much bottom-end poke, which probably isn't what you want in a relatively heavy car.
Cressida heavyish, but not _that_ heavy; I remember from road tests that they were lighter'n EA Ghia & VN Calais, and those cars weren't as obese as the current models of each.
Before I ditched all my old car mags, I had an article about the Jap-market 1JZ-GTE Mark II's, they were auto & still managed numbers that at the time were incredible for a Cressida; can't remember exactly, but it was quicker than the Cosworth RS500 numbers I'd seen. OK, admittedly they're Japanese-market numbers (which are somewhat under real-world ones), but if an auto can pull those sorts of time a manual would have to still be fun.
But then, I'd rather drive a manual almost regardless of power; gimme a current Corolla manual over a current V6 Camry auto, for example.
gianttomato
10-06-02, 12:37 PM
Like Norbie said, Cressida = luxobarge. Go the 2JZ, wads of torque, beautiful engine. If you must, you can always go manual later (but you won't need to).
I'm with driftmaster-zero on this. The Cressida (while not overly heavy) is a luxury car. For an everyday driver I think the 2j and auto would be more suitable, manuals, button clutches and stiff suspension just doesn't suit its nature.
T T Celica
10-06-02, 05:11 PM
go the 2J dude.......
depending on what MX83 u get, the GLXi is 1400kg and the Grande is 1440kg. Ive been involved in a few 1JZ into both MX73 and 83 Cressida's, and while they are a great motor to put in it, the 1J definatelly lacks the torque of the 2J.
Oh, and while we are on the subject, i was also involved in a 1UZ into an MX83 a while ago.....so there is another choice for you :)
1200det
10-06-02, 09:53 PM
AUTO AUTO AUTO AUTO AUTO !!!!!!!!!
Gotta Love those Autos
TRD-KINGSWOOD
10-06-02, 10:02 PM
2J is the go, but
Heres a tip. Go for a drive in a soarer (1600kgs) with a 1j. the auto's do mid 14's stock and the manual ones do mid 13's (not likley to find one).
This last 1/4 time seems weird but, 0.9 of a second difference. oh well.
Another weird thing?? 2J RZ supras in stock trim do low 13's in a lighter car(1500kgs).. WTF???
Can any supra owners clarify this!!!
If you're only getting an auto, what's the point of doing a conversion at all?
T T Celica
11-06-02, 02:16 PM
I have 2 mates with MX73 Cressida's, both fitted with auto 1J's. The first one built, running 15psi, twin dump pipes and 3"exhaust, and a front mount, did a 12.8 at the creek (with 0-100 of 4.85 on a G tech).
The second one, stock with 3" exhaust, did a 13.8 (with a Gtech 0-100 of 5.8).
But note that a MX73 weighs 1355kg's.........not 1400+ like the 83's.
The above times are damn good considering the weight of the car and the minimal mods that have been performed...
Originally posted by Forg
If you're only getting an auto, what's the point of doing a conversion at all?
Twice the power of the stock engine (before mods) and mountains of torque seems like a pretty good point...
Or are you suggesting a 7M-GE with a manual would be a better drive than a 2JZ-GTE with an auto? Pfffft.
1200det
11-06-02, 05:16 PM
Personally i would go for the AUTO whether it was a 1J or 2J
From what i have heard Auto 1JZ' are quicker not sure why some people say it is because of traction others because the manuals fall off boost when changing gears and need to be dumped to get a good launch
I think out of a manual or Auto 1JZ i would go for the manual depending on how much extra it would cost.
The other thing to conceder is that the Jap Chaser which comes with a 1JZ is essentially the same car as the Aus Cressida so the conversion is just a simple bolt in job every thing from the chaser goes into the Cressida.
As far as I know the only car apart from the supra to come with the 2JZ is the Aristo which is a bigger car so it probably would no longer be a simple bolt in conversion.
Thanks for your ideas and opinions
Originally posted by Norbie
Or are you suggesting a 7M-GE with a manual would be a better drive than a 2JZ-GTE with an auto? Pfffft.
I'm suggesting a 1G-GE with a manual would be more fun to drive than a 2JZ-GTE with an auto. Automatics are for drag cars & beige commuters ...
Originally posted by Forg
Automatics are for drag cars & beige commuters ...
And old Volvos are for....? :p
1200det
12-06-02, 05:24 PM
Another Auto / Manual debate
Auto mmm think about it Full boost take offs and precise and bloody fast full boost gear changes and probably alot less drivetrain stress and very long legs in gears ...
1200DET runs and hides
How easy is the 2JZ swap into a Cressida, anyway? It's a conversion that's always fascinated me.
And, in regards to the gearboxen, what's to stop me putting a 5-speed behind a 2JZ? Either the regular Supra one (Toyota nuts, help me out!) or the more expensive (W154?) alloy 5-speed. 6-speed manuals need not apply..
Surely if you're gentle on gearboxes/launches (which I am, I prefer in-gear acceleration), then a 5-speed would handle the torque of a 2JZ if you weren't too brutal?
Chris, yeah the R154 (Supra Turbo Box as it's called) can be bolted to the 2JZ all you need is a manual 1JZ bellhousing.
The R154 came in the 1JZ Manual.
Nick: How hard are they to get ahold of? I realise they're a little pricey (>$1k yeah)..
The bellhousing? Not sure.. would be alittle hard to find I would think as they are mostly always still atached between R154 and a 1JZ :D I've priced them new from Toyota at $800 for the bellhousing ex Japan.
Originally posted by Norbie
And old Volvos are for....? :p
That would obviously depend on whether they were auto or manual, wouldn't it? If auto, they're definitely beige commuters unless they have big-blocks in them; it's when they're in manual form that you can't just generalise. :)
1200det, yep, you're talking things that're only useful in drag-racing; a gear-change in the middle of a corner when you didn't want it is annoying whether it's precise or not. :)
Plus I'd prefer to be enjoying myself when just generally driving, especially when not building a drag car ...
So what if I was to do it in two stages
Stage 1: Put in an auto JZ
Stage 2: convert to manual using R154 from a 1JZ
or
Stage 1: convert stock 7M GE to manual using R154 from 1JZ
Stage 2: put in a 2JZ
What order do you think i should do it in ?
I'd only do it the second way if the bellhousings for 7M & 1JZ are the same. Otherwise, you have to change to the 7M bellhousing, and then back again; that seems a bit silly to me. It sounds to me like they're different, from what Nick was saying.
OK, it'd probably be more fun for the short time it was a 5spd 7M, but if you're likely to stick with the long-term goal of having a 5spd 2JZ, go with first option to save from wasting money. :)
IMHO, of course. :)
meggala
13-06-02, 08:50 PM
If you can get a 1jz manual half cut that would be the way.you should have heaps of grunt.
This is comming from a very diehard auto person when you dealing with jap auto they can cost alot to fix or mods. also you don't have the power up choices cause the auto is going to need reinforcing. the price difference between the the 2jz and the 1jz you give you something left for mods.
have you considered what diff your going to run are you going to run an LSD?
meggala
who just converted from auto to manual
I know this might sound silly but have you considered a 7m as you already have the non turbo version it would make the swap so much easier. power can always be found regardless of what engine you have.
gianttomato
14-06-02, 08:41 AM
Actually, not that much easier to go with a 7MGTE. With the correct front cut, a JZ series engine could potentially physically bolt in. You are then left with all the other probs (wiring, exhaust, intercooler, etc) but have to face those with the 7MGTE anyway.
I'll again speak out on something I don't really know all that much about *grin*, but I agree with meggala. A 2JZ is an awesome engine, but in a Mk2 I really don't think a 1JZ is that much of a step down for the sort of money you pay ... it's almost like an RB25DET vs. RB26DETT.
If you're going the "whole hog" with this car & engine (like full bare-metal respray, retrim, ~$3k in suspension work, etc), then like the RB26DETT the 2JZ-GTE is a really good place to start. But if it's going to be "motor in, a few external mods to engine, drive 'er around with new shocks & springs" I think the 2JZ is a lot more money to pay for extra power that you probably can't use in most situations.
But then ... Norbie knows the dollar-figures better'n I do. And the above is just an opinion from someone who's a bit fussy about their cars & probably wouldn't undertake an engine-conversion without spending all the extra money on paint & interior (read: fussy old bastard :)).
meggala
14-06-02, 10:14 AM
giant tomato I converted a nissan from n/a to turbo and there were very few wiring hassles as I used the same engine. but the turbo version. when changine types of engine you encounter other interesting things link heater hoses being different different types of sensors for the dash etc this really start to add to the cost of a conversion. 600 hp from a 7m isn't that hard If he wants to go that far. or go the 1jz you can still get 5-600 hp out if them.
the easier you can make the conversion the better.
meggala
gianttomato
14-06-02, 11:05 AM
7MGE to 7MGTE is perhaps a little trickier....physically clearly no probs but totally different ECU with different inputs/pins etc. Not a major hassle, but it can't be avoided. Unfortunately, I don't think it's as simple as unplugging the 7MGE and plugging in the 7MGTE. :(
Personally I still think they're all great engines.
Meggala
The GLX have a non-LSD the Grand have an LDS both with a ration of I have heard of some one running 270 RWHP through a non-LSD dif.
Forg
The car I am thinking of doing to conversion to would be an 89 to 93 Cressida Grand they are basically a Lexis and have a full lather interior with ever luxury feature you can think of. I would probably just put on some 16 and do some suspension work. This idea is an alternative to the Volvo project I have been thinking about for a while. I can see too many complications and expenses with it the Volvo project. I like the sleeper aspect of it to so I wont be doing too much appearance wise.
So far it seems that the easiest and way is to use a JZX81 Chaser front cut (i.e. Jap Spec Cressida) which comes with a 1JZGTE, and basically swap everything directly over. I have been told that everything all hoses, radiator, air con, power steering etc all fit strait in. I have also read that for $600 Sixworks (don’t know who they are) will configure and label the standard loom and that an auto Electrician can finish the job in around 3 hours
This seems like it would be easier than a 7M GTE because with a 7M GTE you would probably need custom dump pipe and have to find a capable radiator that will fit and things like that.
What I am trying to find out now is how similar the 2JZ Aristo is to the Chaser and Cressida and weather it would be much harder to use an Aristo ½ cut than a Chaser ½ cut. From what I have heard they both use a front sump configuration but im not sure about much else.
thanks
Just to re-cap (and I'm too lazy to RTFM).. what's the consensus if, say, you're doing 2JZ-GTE into a Crown?
What year Crown, and what front-cut do I use? Aristo? What year? Hypothetically, of course..
gianttomato
14-06-02, 04:42 PM
Obviously one depends on the other. Pick one and we can tell you the other.
MS45 thru to at least 85 all have mid sump configuations. Not sure about MS112 and MS123. Crown's have a full chassis and there is a big chunky bit at the front which makes a front sump configuration impossible.
Oops - I think I confused myself! :)
What would be the best one to do, in your opinion? What'd be the cheapest, easiest, and be the most "sleeper-like"?
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