Best Speakers to run of 4x40w head unit?

[EddyBigShoes]

I need to replace the factory speakers in my 200sx as only two work anymore and the rest are rattly.

So in your opinion what are the best speaker to replace them with?

I have a new blaupunkt head unit which puts out 4x40watts and I don't want the bother of wiring up an amp/subs etc but I want a decent sound range so I'm willing to spend a bit on quality gear.

Here's what I've come up with so far,
Front: 6 inch Philips 120w 2way
Rear: 2x Jaycar 6.5 inch Polycone Woofer 80wrms

Any advice is really appreciated.

[Kinks]

Let your ears be the guide, with your wallet as the limiting factor :rolleyes:

I went for Boston Acoustics splits in the front (4") and Jaycar response 6x9's in the back low-passed at 80Hz to fill in bass that the front speakers lack. Pretty happy with the sound quality considering the compromises I wanted to make. The splits cost me $360 about 4 years ago, which is a fair bit of money. However, I have auditioned a pair of AVI splits worth $1600 and they are the clearest, best car speakers I have heard by a very wide margin. If money was no object... drool!

[EddyBigShoes]

kinks, I presume you didn't run them from your head unit though?

Splits are the way to go but I don't think you can run them on a measly 40watts.

If high power speakers run from a low powered head unit will the sound be distored or will they just sound quieter?

[Kinks]

I'm running them from my head unit. The head unit is 4x35W which means about 4x13W RMS.

You can run high powered speakers off a low powered head unit easily, just remember that the power rating on speakers and amps (including head units) is how much they CAN deliver or use, not how much they need all the time. At low volumes you are using less than a quarter of a watt per channel anyway!

The main thing to remember with low powered amplifiers (ie head units) is that it's easy to drive them into clipping trying to get more sound out of them. Clipping sounds bad and WILL kill speakers. It's quite possible to fry 100W speakers with a 10W amplifier due to clipping.

Basically the only disadvantage of running splits off a head unit is that they won't be able to go as loud because the head unit can't deliver the wattage to make them do so. If you don't need ear splitting volume then you can do it just fine.

[EddyBigShoes]

Kinks, beautiful, just the information I needed.

[Cplus]

If using a head unit, audition speakers with really high sensitivity levels. The unit is probably lucky to be putting out 20wrms. So try to get speakers that don't require gobs of power. Look at putting Jacar speakers all round for a cheap and decent sounding result. They have directional tweeters, an inline crossover and sound great for the money. You should get four speakers for the $350 mark, which is bulk cheap. The 6in will be louder than the 6.5in (less mass for that pissy amp power to move) on your head unit at the expense of a little bass. They'll fit easier in your doors too (i've got a 200) you can get 7x10's aswell and according to the website they are cheaper. Don't know if they will fit however.

I would normally say Phillips GTM splits for the budget conscious, as for under $200 for even the 6.5in's (shop around) they rock. But they need decent juice, ~50wrms to sound their best.

Be carefull when auditioning speaker at a store. For example the alpines on their board will be connected to a gutsy alpine amp unless you ask them to run them from a head unit, and will sound way better than they will in your situation.

You could take you head unit out your car and ask them to connect it up to the speaker on their board - it's not hard the board is designed to make it easy, I got a few looks once but have done it before - and that way you'll get a real result when auditioning.

Get Jaycar 6in for the front, 6x9's for the rear. Fit 6x9's in the rear and disconnect the tweeters to get a up front soundstage and you'll be cheering and have spent less than $350. Dead Easy.

[Kinks]

The best head units today will nudge 18-19W RMS.

Speaker output per watt is determined by sensitivity (dB/W) not by cone size. My 6.5" hi-fi speakers have a sensitivity of 89dB/W however I've seen 12" subs which are 92dB/W.

Good advice though, I did precisely that and disconnected the tweeters on my 6x9s which made the soundstage better. However better results again from adding a filter to the woofer side (inductor wired in series with the speaker) so that anything above 100Hz is cut out and therefore mid frequencies only come from the front, this made my system a LOT better.

[Midz]

How can u disconnect the tweeters ? If u disconnect em can they be reconnected easily ?

[Cplus]

Sensitivity is defined as dB per 1 watt at 1 m

So supply your home speakers 1 watt and the sound level at one meter will be 89, the sub 92 - this is un boxed as well i believe and over the full spectrum.

Sensitivity is determined by a few things, and one of them is the pure mass of the cone.
So as a rough guide a smaller speaker in the same range is going to have a smaller magnet, cone and pole piece hence less force will be required to make it move in and out - therefore greater efficiency. Hence given the same power - in the case of ratings this is 1w - will sound louder. Thats why I said the 6 in will be louder than the 6.5's. There is less mass to move, thats why they are more efficient - for this case.

Midz - if your speakers have crossovers you can easily disconnect the tweaters. If they have capacitors, you can do it if you are handy with a soldering iron.

With the jaycars you you could simply don't connect them. You have four sets of spade terminals, don't connect the tweeter ones. They arn't designed like your average coaxial - they're more akin to the assembly of coaxials four times the price. Which means they are simply splits with a fixed mouting for the tweeter. and you can even remove the tweeter and mount it elsewhere to make the speaker a "split" unit.

[Cplus]

Originally posted by Kinks
However better results again from adding a filter to the woofer side (inductor wired in series with the speaker) so that anything above 100Hz is cut out and therefore mid frequencies only come from the front, this made my system a LOT better.

Yeah the crossover, although better than your normal crossover found on speaker's costing under $200 - under $150 for all but the 6.5in and bigger - is still only a high pass unit. I modified the jaycars crossover to be a true two way, running the mid at <2khz or so.

Come to think of it they actually sounded better than the JBL Gti's i've got in the car now.

You'd be best to match the 100hz low pass on the 6x9's with a 100hz high pass on the front speakers. you'll be able to run more volume in the fronts then.

[Midz]

I have jaycar 4" at the front... i know remeber what are u talking about now...
But i have kennys 7x10 in the back... so ain't gunna be soldering em

[Kinks]

Cplus, there are MANY facets to speaker design and you simply cannot generalise to say that a smaller speaker will be louder.

Have a look through any spec list for a group of speakers and you'll see that the vast majority have sensitivities in the range of 87-92dB. And there is no correlation as far as size goes.

Just looking through the jaycar catalogue:

6.5" woofers: 85dB, 87dB, 88dB
12" subs: 89dB, 92dB, 93dB

That's a fair cross-section incidentally, not hand-picked extremes in each group.

Explain to me why the subs are so much more efficient than the 6.5" woofers, if the mass of the cone has anything to do with efficiency?

You're on track with the rest of the stuff but there's a lot more to efficiency ratings than just the cone mass. For example, manufacturers can choose to sacrifice a couple of dB of efficiency in order to smooth the response curve. All that means is you need a bit more juice to get the best out of them but at any volume level they'll sound better.

Finally, there's no need to attack your kenwoods with a soldering iron to bypass the tweeter. Just solder an inductor in series with the speaker terminals and all mid and high frequencies can be cut off, the tweeter's crossover then becomes redundant.

[Glenn98]

EDDYBIGSHOES - I'm selling a set (2) Jaycar 6.5" Carbon Fibre
Cone Woofers...
4ohm / 80 watt RMS/ 43 - 5500Hz
4 mths old, have had them in the back of my S14a.

$100 firm - retail $85.00 ea.
Look on the Jaycar website www.jaycar.com.au
or p. 236 of there catalogue.

I now have Infinity 6.5" Co-axials F & R (Kappa series) 80 wRMS.
These are running of a Pionner head unit 45w/x4

But, willing to sell let me know asap.

Brisbane...:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Boxer]

Kinks is correct - many things play a part in sensitivity of a speaker and typical car mids will be around 87-90db. Another factor is the way the voice coils are wound and the type of wire used.

Also a very good point brought up about clipping - if you want to run speakers off your head unit, then dont over drive the internal amplifier. It will drive it into distortion and then subject the voice coils to stright DC switching in extreme cases = fryed coils due to excessive heat.

Its much harder to blow speakers with an amp thats too big rather than one thats too small.

The only point I'd add to Kinks' about why run an amp if you're only gonna run it a lower volumes is that an amp will always sound much cleaner and better depth and clarity. Dedicated amps will have a good damping factor and have plenty of current headroom for transients in music passages (esp deep bass)

[Kinks]

Agreed.

I'm not a fan of trying to cram too much into the one package. But it works if your budget is tight and you can't be shagged wiring up an amplifier and removing half of your interior trim :)

[gti6]

I think if you find a good pair of splits for the front that you like the sound of, and they happen to have a high sensitivity rating (like 90db+) then it's all good.

I much prefer my 6" Blaupunkt Overdrives compared to my old 6.5" Phillips GTM splits - but I think you should check both of them out, they have a sensitivity rating of 92Db.

Cheers,
Adrian

[EddyBigShoes]

Glenn98, Cheers I'll take you up on that!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the size/power of the magnet in relation to the weight of the cone dictates its sensitivity.

kinks, yeah I'm not in the mood to rip the interior to bits to add an amp. I did that on my last two cars and my GF's car and after killing too many of those little plastic clips that hold the trim on and breaking my fingers feeding the wires through the rubber thingy between the doors, I've had enough!!!

[Cplus]

Originally posted by EddyBigShoes
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the size/power of the magnet in relation to the weight of the cone dictates its sensitivity.

Yes you're right - and yes thats what I've been saying.

so in answer to your question kinks, subs can have high efficiency cause their magnets are so big! :)

[Cplus]

How bout this? Bugger off the 6x9's in the rear and place some of the 6.5in drivers in the rear capper off at about 500hz? their efficiency is 89db as compared to 92db for the 6x9's but you'll find the high figure of the 6x9 comes from the tweeter output not the midbass driver. you'll save $60 this way.

Also for more output and a cleaner signal - slightly - run 12 or 16 gauge wire (fused) directly from your battery to your headunit, rather than using the feed you currently are, probably lucky to be 24g and has everyother constantly powered accessory tied into it aswell. I did this for a mate and it removed the alternator noise he was getting whenever he turned on his headlights! also upper the RCA volatage by a few tenths.

[EddyBigShoes]

Cplus, never thought of that but it does makes sense that the better quality power to the head unit means the unit can produce more power effectively. I presume this is the same for amps?

How bout this? Bugger off the 6x9's in the rear and place some of the 6.5in drivers in the rear capper off at about 500hz? their efficiency is 89db as compared to 92db for the 6x9's but you'll find the high figure of the 6x9 comes from the tweeter output not the midbass driver. you'll save $60 this way.

I'm getting 6.5" woofers instead of 2 or 3 way speakers for that reason aswell as the 3way 6x9's in my old car where efficient but it was mostly treble when underpowered.

Does capping a speaker off on the positive wire reduce power to the speaker?

[Cplus]

Yes, amps should always have a direct feed to the battery. Your head unit has an internal amp - why deny it a clean feed?

Yes 6.5in woofers only thats what i was saying.

Very very infitisimately yes. Only due to the increased resistance of the capacitor. But not in a way that you should worry about, it will simply provide a shallow crossover.

Use one of jaycars 100V 100uF capacitors in line for a crossover point of about 250-500Hz.

Cheers,

C+