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View Full Version : Crashed Stolen Car, Who is Liable ?



Mike V
20-01-03, 11:55 AM
Suppose your car is stolen and the thief crashes it into another car and then runs off.

Are you liable for the crash damage to the other car ?

GTS32
20-01-03, 12:05 PM
No, the theif is generally liable.

Chipper
20-01-03, 12:06 PM
But this would be claimed on your insurance, so "you" are liable as far as an insurance claim is concerned.

Mike V
20-01-03, 12:22 PM
So the other way around:

A stolen car crashes into you, you know the owner's details, but the thief gets away.

You claim on insurance and have to pay excess & lose no claim bonus because the thief is "At fault" (not the owner) and you can't identify the thief.

IS this correct ?

Shauno
20-01-03, 12:39 PM
I'd say Southo will be able to help you out with this one.

BerKo
20-01-03, 01:03 PM
Isnt that the TAC insurance which you get with your vechile.... I guess everyone who is registered is covered, Damage to things you need insurance.... Well thats how I understood it anyway

Chipper
20-01-03, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Mike V
So the other way around:

A stolen car crashes into you, you know the owner's details, but the thief gets away.

You claim on insurance and have to pay excess & lose no claim bonus because the thief is "At fault" (not the owner) and you can't identify the thief.

IS this correct ?

Depends if the theif is identified or not.

Identified, they can be held liable. The "third party" could lodge a claim on their insurance then go the thief for costs.

Unidentified, the claim would probably be lodged against your policy and an excess would be payable.

Berko,

Thats Third Party Personal Injury, not property cover.

Chip

BerKo
20-01-03, 01:23 PM
sorry thats what I meant chip... Like if your hit by a car, doesnt anyone who gets injured get covered by Third Party Personal Injury... I thaught that came with your rego???

Chipper
20-01-03, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by BerKo
sorry thats what I meant chip... Like if your hit by a car, doesnt anyone who gets injured get covered by Third Party Personal Injury... I thaught that came with your rego???

Yeah man :) thats correct. TPPD, or Third Party Personal Damage comes as part of your rego cover and covers bodily injuries.

TPPD, or Third Party Property damage comes as a seperate cover and covers the actual damage a vehicle causes to property.

You would be surprised how many people don't know the difference and think they have property damage cover with the rego :)

Chip

BerKo
20-01-03, 01:33 PM
ok so what happens if an unregoed car hits u (as a pedestrian)?? You basically pay for your own injuries? then sue the crap out of the person who hit you? or are all the roads covered?

Chipper
20-01-03, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by BerKo
ok so what happens if an unregoed car hits u (as a pedestrian)?? You basically pay for your own injuries? then sue the crap out of the person who hit you? or are all the roads covered?

Basically, they are not covered by insurance and you would have to sue to recover costs.

CussCuss
20-01-03, 02:00 PM
also if u have insurance yourself u can claim it on your insurance and they will go after the uninsured driver themselves, no excess.
And my third party prop covers me for 3k of that.

Chipper
20-01-03, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by CussCuss
also if u have insurance yourself u can claim it on your insurance and they will go after the uninsured driver themselves, no excess.

You may well be charged an excess so you get your car fixed, the excess will also tried to be recovered if they identify the person, so you may pay it, but you would get it back.

If they are not identified, the excess is payable by you if you lodge a claim, the same as "at fault", but this gets placed as a "Non recoverable" claim.

grimas
20-01-03, 02:12 PM
i have a bit to with this matter

if your car is stolen, and the thief hits another vehicle or vehicles and its been reported to the police you are not liabile.
if you are hit be a stolen car, and you can identify the thief you will be able to claim a not at fault accident, but if you cant and the car is stolen the claim would be an unknown party at fault (like returning to your car after parked and someones hit it)

gtst4
20-01-03, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Chipper
Yeah man :) thats correct. TPPD, or Third Party Personal Damage comes as part of your rego cover and covers bodily injuries.

TPPD, or Third Party Property damage comes as a seperate cover and covers the actual damage a vehicle causes to property.

You would be surprised how many people don't know the difference and think they have property damage cover with the rego :)

Chip TPPD is "Third Party Property Damage", and is the sort of insurance you take out when you can't afford Comprehensive - it covers you if you run into a Roller or Merc, but doesn't cover your car.

The one with your rego is CTP - Compulsory Third Party or Third Party Personal. It covers persons injured in crashes.


You would be surprised how many people don't know the difference

Chipper
20-01-03, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by gtst4
TPPD is "Third Party Property Damage", and is the sort of insurance you take out when you can't afford Comprehensive - it covers you if you run into a Roller or Merc, but doesn't cover your car.

The one with your rego is CTP - Compulsory Third Party or Third Party Personal. It covers persons injured in crashes.

Thats what I have said above, but yeah, CTP is personal, TPPD is property, but can be "Third Party Personal Damage"


if you are hit be a stolen car, and you can identify the thief you will be able to claim a not at fault accident, but if you cant and the car is stolen the claim would be an unknown party at fault (like returning to your car after parked and someones hit it)

Not exactly.

It doesnt get marked as a not at fault claim as such, but a non recoverable / damaged whilst parked claim.

Chances are if you can identify the person, you can (a) try to get the money from the thief (b) fix the car by making a claim on your insurance, then recovering from the thief (c) make a claim on the insurance policy of the person who owns the vehicle who hits yours.

Depends on the situation, but be aware there are more than "not at fault" and "at fault" claims. Non recoverable claims will also see you hit with an excess.

Chip

Southo
20-01-03, 02:45 PM
What was the Question again ???


Suppose your car is stolen and the thief crashes it into another car and then runs off.
Are you liable for the crash damage to the other car ?

No, liabilty is brought about by negligence, if you were not negligent for the damage, you can not be held liable.


So the other way around:

A stolen car crashes into you, you know the owner's details, but the thief gets away.
You claim on insurance and have to pay excess & lose no claim bonus because the thief is "At fault" (not the owner) and you can't identify the thief.
IS this correct ?

YES, this is why insurance companies ask for the DRIVERS Name and Address, along with the rego number of the car for Faultless Excess and Fauiltless NCB to apply.



Berko said (in reference to Personal Injury (CTP) insurance)
ok so what happens if an unregoed car hits u (as a pedestrian)?? You basically pay for your own injuries? then sue the crap out of the person who hit you? or are all the roads covered?

If you are the Innocent person in any motor vehicle accident - regardless if the AT FAULT person's Insurance/rego staus, you are covered. (even if you can not identify the at fault person - You are still covered. It is called a Nominal Defendant claim and all insurance companies in the Scheme contribute to a big pool of funds set aside for these types of claims. The contribution to this pool is attributed to by each insurance companies market share of the scheme.

Mike V
20-01-03, 03:03 PM
Thanks, crystal clear on that now.

Pep
20-01-03, 04:34 PM
Southo

I park my car in my building at work.

Approx a month ago, a 'workmate' for some reason parked approx 40cm from my car and got out of his car. This resulted in a fairly large scratch in the paint, but it did not dent the panel.

What can I do in this situation?

If I can provide the details to my insurance company, will they fix my door and chase him for the cost and not lose my NCB?

Reason ive not done this sooner is I thought that id have to claim and id lose my NCB.

appreciated..

No-Logic
20-01-03, 06:52 PM
Everybody above mentions "identifying the thief"..well...fat chance of that is there?

tez
20-01-03, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Pep
Southo

IApprox a month ago, a 'workmate' for some reason parked approx 40cm from my car and got out of his car. This resulted in a fairly large scratch in the paint, but it did not dent the panel.

What can I do in this situation?

If I can provide the details to my insurance company, will they fix my door and chase him for the cost and not lose my NCB?


Depends on your insurance company. I think AAMI make you pay the excess (correct me if Im wrong) and then you provide them with th name, address and rego of the other party's vehicle. Once AAMI recover the money from the other party, they'll refund your excess.

With NRMA, as long as you can provide the name and residential address of the other party, you will not pay have to pay any excess or lose any of your NCB, obviously as long as your 100% not at fault in the incident.

Southo
20-01-03, 10:20 PM
like ek said - different companies do things differnetly, but *generally* it's like this..

1. - If you are NOT at Fault
2. - You can Identify the At Fault partiy/parties
3. - The damage amount is greater than your excess

they you won't have to Pay your excess and the Insurance company will chase them. - Your NCB should be the same.

If the damage is less than your excess (basic excess as age excess won't apply, no one was driving your car), your company may ask you to pay the excess and then when they make recovery - they pay you back.

Pep
20-01-03, 10:29 PM
Thanks fella's..

I figured I was being lazy, so I called NRMA, my insurer. :D

Basically, they told me as long as I can provide them with an address, rego number and his name, I have nothing to worry about.

I will NOT lose my NCB or pay any excess. :D

I asked them, "what if he deny's this, or you cannot get the money out of him", they told me "Thats our problem, dont you worry".

So now ive just got to get his details. :(

I looked on our Lotus Notes to get his address etc, and there are no details for him, (fairly new employee - 3 months etc and not permanent)

So I am getting my friend (sweet sounding girl) to call him tommorow, and say she is this person in payroll, asking him his address to update the work databases. lol :D

BerKo
21-01-03, 08:02 AM
I've got a story kinda on the same lines:

My dad has had police call him and tell him that he has rolled backwards at the lights and hit someone (happened that day). So my dad went and had a look at his car (new one with plastic bumpers) and there wasnt a scratch, He told the cops he has no damage and the cops just said "ahh dont worry this happens quite alot, people who want their cars repaired..."

Aparently if they dont have insurance they try this on the police to work out.

Anyone know anything else about this kind of thing?

Spammy
21-01-03, 08:14 AM
If somebody tries the "you ran into me" story and it is not true just get a lawyer to write a 1 page letter to them or their insurance company stating

"I did not run into you, unless you can produce an independant witness to contary, please do not contact me again"

I know a couple of guys that have used this and never heard from the dodgy punter or insurance company again.

gtst4
21-01-03, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Chipper
Thats what I have said above, but yeah, CTP is personal, TPPD is property, but can be "Third Party Personal Damage"
I think you'll find CTP is also called Third Party Bodily, TPPD is Third Party Property.

Chipper
21-01-03, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by gtst4
I think you'll find CTP is also called Third Party Bodily, TPPD is Third Party Property.

Can also be called a greenslip.......its called heaps of different names for the one cover.

My point was the insurance that comes with your rego is for personal injury, not property damage as a lot of perople think.

Pep
21-01-03, 10:20 AM
spamgirl

I thought that may be the case, so I specifically asked NRMA what happens when someone denies any liability or refuses to pay for whatever reason.

They simply told me, not to worry about it. I was told that nomatter what happens with regards to recovering the cost from the liable party, that I am not going to lose NCB or pay any excess.

This confused me a little because it seems so unrealistic, but once I get this guys details (today) ill get more specific with NRMA and find out the whole story.

Seems a little odd that NRMA would leave themselves so open.

Good thing is this, the day that this happened, I confronted him about it infront of some people at work. I also spoke to him on the phone about it, (all calls are recorded @ work) and he admitted it to me and apologised. Later that day, he said he didnt know what I wanted to do about it (either did I) and he said that he doesnt have any money.

Untill now I left it at that because I didnt want to lose my NCB.

But ill see how we go.

EGG-12A
21-01-03, 12:09 PM
Pep,

Go for it. I had a similar instance, and i provided NRMA those details, and now my car is fixed. NRMA wears the cost, guess they know they have a good chance of winning if it goes to court...

I had no witnesses etc, just provided other drivers details/rego details, and they fixed my car straight away.

THE ASH
21-01-03, 12:23 PM
Love ya work there Pep, sweet sounding girl, heh heh. :D

Good luck with it.

Pep
21-01-03, 01:04 PM
:D

Pep
21-01-03, 03:23 PM
One question..

Can I trust NRMA to make sure that the door gets resprayed perfectly? I mean, perfect colour matching and no overspray etc. In other words, a good job!

Thanks

tez
21-01-03, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Pep
I thought that may be the case, so I specifically asked NRMA what happens when someone denies any liability or refuses to pay for whatever reason.

This confused me a little because it seems so unrealistic, but once I get this guys details (today) ill get more specific with NRMA and find out the whole story.

Seems a little odd that NRMA would leave themselves so open.


It is, and alot of the times NRMA get shafted as well because the other party does not supply you the correct information (dodgy address etc) and NRMA ends up wearing the cost.

While we all complain about insurance premiums being high, insurance companies arent all bad :rolleyes:

Take for example this guy thats damaged your car pep, he cant afford to pay the $1000 or whatever it is to fix your car. NRMA fixes your car, and pays the smash repairer. NRMA then try to recover the money, although the guy is only on $300 per week and can only afford to pay $10 per week. What happens? NRMA end up getting $10 each week out of this guy until its been paid off.


Originally posted by Pep
One question..
Can I trust NRMA to make sure that the door gets resprayed perfectly? I mean, perfect colour matching and no overspray etc. In other words, a good job!
Thanks

Just ask around some friends to see who they recommend, and if your worriedabout the repairer doing a good job, make sure you go with a NRMA AUTHORISED repairer. That is, not neccesarily a NRMA preferred repairer, but just someone who is authorised, and you'll get lifetime guarantees on the repairs etc

Pep
21-01-03, 03:52 PM
Good to hear.

You see, the car is only 4 months old, and if one panel is dodgy and doesnt look perfect with the others, ill be extremely pissed. :mad:

But if its done well, then it'll be sweeeeeeeeeeet as brudda. :D

When I bought my Alfa new from RD, the moron's at the dealer ship chipped my front quater panel. They did repair it, but it took them 2 attempts to get the paint effect right. The colour was matched really well, but the Alfa has a strong 'orange peel' effect from the factory. And I couldnt have one panel like a mirror and the others all 'orange peel'.

* 'orange peel' is a rippled effect in the paint.

tez
21-01-03, 03:59 PM
I'd probably take it back to Rick Damelian. Im pretty sure they've got a smash shop of their own. Or else, ask RD and see who they recommend.

Pep
21-01-03, 04:18 PM
Im planning on taking it to the same repairer that RD used, for that very reason. They have done it before and know the colour and technique required to match the paint.

I just hope they are NRMA approved, which I imagine they would be.

Mike V
21-01-03, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by ek~civic
It is, and alot of the times NRMA get shafted as well because the other party does not supply you the correct information (dodgy address etc) and NRMA ends up wearing the cost.

While we all complain about insurance premiums being high, insurance companies arent all bad :rolleyes:



Then next time you renew your policy, your premium mysteriously goes up a hell of a lot.

Been there.

Even if you are not at fault, your risk goes up because you have made a claim, so your premium goes up.