dba's and harrop calipers

[Thumper]

Hello,
I will soon be running a Vn com. in Improved production and have just found this fourm.
A few questions i have that some of you may be able to help with.
I have a set of calipers of a VX GTS that i will be running and have just mounted the rears up with new dba rotors.Have to use dba's or GMH as the rears have an odd ball thickness of 18mm.Harrop Willwood etc...dont.

So we come to the fronts and the are 343mm x 32mm i was hoping to run the new 5000 type from dba only the are only about $500 a pair cheaper than harrops.

As this car is 1450kg the brakes are going to get a big work out and i need to hear from somebody that dba's are up to the job and when theirs not really that much price differaence.... you can see my point.

I should of said that the calipers are the red (harrop) type not the black type.

[dattoman1000]

If your running the red harrops I'd get the new DBA rotor for that
DBA5050
2 piece rotor with alloy hat. Its looks the goods .....I have one at the moment I'm checking out.
Its a straight bolt on replacement and will definatly be better than a 1 piece cast rotor.I have heard alot of complaints about the factory rotor on Holdens on the LS1 message board.

Pagid RS14 pads...........beautiful

[Thumper]

Thanks for the reply.
I would like to get my hands on a 5000 rotor to have a look. On the web site thay look great.

Hopefully thay are up to the job.

Only one way to find out.

RS14 on the rears as well? While were going what size master cylinders you think.

:worship:

[Thumper]

Well i have just tried to buy some DBA 5050 and have been told that thay are for genuine only- genuine arn't even 2 peice- this is from dba themself.

Then tried to buy the one peice DBA 055 and was told the same thing.

dattoman1000 if you can find out some info. it would help me out heeps.What thay are worth and who i have to speak to. thanks.

[Trevor@BDA]

Don't understand this.
We can get access to these rotors ex stock today if needed.
They are in short supply, but I have contacted DBA to see why that would have been said to you.
The DBA sales guys are scratching their heads about who in their organisation would have stated that to you.
In any case if you need some we (and other motor sport dealers) can get them

Trevor

[Thumper]

Thanks Trevor,
I have just been sent an e-mail from Phillip Joseph about this and he will be contacting me when they are released. However if you can tell me as few things that would be great.

Maybe some prices might save me a lot of thinking as the harrops arnt a bad price.

You may also be able to tell me if they came handle racing not just club sprints etc...as with most things they are design for road use with the odd club day, even when they say there for racing-comes down to being built to a $

[Trevor@BDA]

I would think that they would handle your class of racing quite acceptably.
Let's put it this way, they are a step up in quality for motor sport to the rotors used in GTP vehicles etc. Brute Ute rotors are also no better in quality to these.
I will need to discuss this on Monday and return with some sort of answer
Trevor

[dattoman1000]

Future tourers run RS14 front and RS4-4 as their control pads
I'd thinbk this would be a good balance for your application too.

[dbasteve]

Originally posted by Thumper
Well i have just tried to buy some DBA 5050 and have been told that thay are for genuine only- genuine arn't even 2 peice- this is from dba themself.

Then tried to buy the one peice DBA 055 and was told the same thing.


Bleep!

The DBA 5050 disc rotors are in stock.:)
The rotors are heat treated and made to the same standards as the discs I put on GTP cars. Our treated discs survived 1066km of racing at Bathurst (24hr) last year before a routine change (no cracks). The hats are mounted using the fixed bolt system for vehicles that are driven on both the road and track. The design of the Aluminium hats allows the rotor to expand and contract without distortion and the bolts are the same as used on F1 brakes around the world.

The Gen/Harrop rotors are not treated for track use and will fatigue much quicker than a treated disc. The two piece discs are 3kg lighter which helps with your unsprung weight.
Replacement discs are half the price.

[dattoman1000]

LMAO

Monkeys

[Thumper]

I dont know how many times i been told that they are in stock,but do you think i can get some.Now that the web site has been update the release date is in march,but your telling me they are in stock:wtf:

So i have been told thay are bring tested on some cars before being released.

What type of car do you run in GTP. We ran a Nissan some 8 years ago (12 hour) with standard rotors and never had a problem.Point being pulling up a small car is a lot different than pulling up 1455kg, even if you did it for 1066km.Their is also alot of super tourers that have to run harrops(were talking the real harrops- not the GMH harrops) that look like thay could go for an extra 24 hours.

If the DBA rotor is for racing why does the heat paint only go to around the 600c degree mark?(Maybe on the rears)

Now im not a brake guru,but im sure that F1 use a floating type bolt set up on the hats and im sure the hats arnt aluminium.
The 2 peice harrops also have a floating bolt set up.

If the DBAs are so good for racing i gess super tours, V8 supercars and any other serios cars will soon be running DBA.Hey DBA steve

[dbasteve]

Before we get narky here, I was having a go at our own people with the graphics up there not you.

Yes we have confusion in the engine room about release dates. These discs have been sold since last November. I am doing some testing that uses these discs but not testing the disc.

We ran discs on a VX Commodore (Luff), STi WRX (Protecnica), 350Z Nissan splatt!, 3 little Mirages still going.

I have no doubt the real Harrops discs are up to the task but that is not what we are comparing.
The heat paint is the same set up as used on AP's. The colours are for matching pads to running temps or if they exceed 630C then you know that rotor fatigue is accelerated. I get my temp data off thermocouples and a data logger not paint.

The F1 bolts are the same NAS bolts we use. They fit in titanium bobins with titanium hats but the bolts are the same. The point is that they are the same quality.

1. Why dont we run in the V8 Supercars? We're not ready yet.
2. Why dont we do floating hats? It's not the application we intended.
3. Are floating hats better than fixed? If the car is a serious dedicated track car with rotor temps exceeding 800 deg C then definitely YES.
If it is a road registered competition vehicle or a rally car then fixed is better.

Our intention with this product is to offer and affordable yet high quality product to enthusiasts who; wish to race their vehicles on the weekends, want high quality braking performance on the street, or both.
Testing on Super Car discs starts this year!
Yes they will be floating hats too.

I hope this clears things up a bit!
Sorry if you thought the last thread was directed at you.:rolleyes:

[dbasteve]

Hey Thumper!
Considering you have been the victim of some serious confusion here how about this.

We have some of these discs coming back off one of our own vehicles this week. We can refit new rotors to them and send them to you to try out. If you think they are up to the task then you can send them back and buy a new set from one of our distributors. If not then send them back and it hasn't cost you anything.;)

[Thumper]

Sorry if i seemed a bit pissed, all im tring to to is buy a set of discs.

The car that these are going on to is running in inproved producion so its not a streat car racing on weekends, however i dont beleve i need to go over the top and waste money on a name brand racing disc ie harrop willwood etc...

How long do i get to try these demo dics out for.

Can we do deals, as i dont really care that the hats have been used and DBA do sponsor the NSW series and maybe a VN running in the Vic and national series.It may be a great way to prove how good they are!

[Thumper]

Forgot to ask on the VX how did the front huds (bearing hub) last.

Have been told that they have a smaller bearing than the earlier type VB-VP and cant handle the extra load of racing.

Have been told that on some of the GTP's in testing, only lasted about 6 hours!

Not talking about just VX.Any commodore that has a seal bearing hub VR-VY.

[dbasteve]

No problem.
Lets get some discs on the car.

That's why we only got the 1066 kms out of the discs. The bearings were splat on both the VX and Subaru.
The VT to VY hubs have ball bearings instead of rollers (cylinders) and they are only 17mm apart. This is fine for a billy cart but not a performance vehicle.
Apparently there was a limit on weight for the hubs which didn't allow enough length to space the bearings further apart. I beleive the hubs are the weakest point on this car.

6 hours is about right!

[dbasteve]

One other point with the bearings. How do you lubricate them?
You can't unless you machine a nipple into the hub which poses the risk of contaminating the bearings when drilling.

[dattoman1000]

A hub assembly is available to convert the VR-VT to a normal bearing assy.
Basically you unbolt the 3 bolts that hold the bearing assy to the bottom of the strut knuckle. Throw this in the bin.
Then you bolt this axle assy to the knuckle using the 3 existing holes and you now have a "proper" stub axle.
The you bolt the VT conversion hub available from many different suppliers to fit VT discs to earlier commys.
This way your back to using std A and B bearings with the better bearing spacing and whenever you need to replace them they are cheap as chips.
Less walk of the bearing due to its crap design.

Initial investment is higher but the savings are larger when you need to replace bearings. I believe Harrop also does these.

Steve can put you onto someone for the hubs in your area (right Steve) . And I'll get back to you with the engineering firm that can supply the stub assys.
From memory the axles were $1200 pr but I will need to confirm this with the engineer. He does both a "street" and a track version. I think the street version is half the price but not the same quality and since your racing then you'd want the good hardened ones.
I'm having to speak to the engineer in the next couple of days as I'm trying to get a set of these units for a local Doctor who wants these same discs for his CV8. As long as I can make sure they are compatable with his ABS. Not a prob for your vehicle though.

[Thumper]

The only reason i was going to run the later hubs was because of the beater design(strut mounting to the top) and easier to make a lower arm for with the ball joint design.However if i am only going to dich the VR-VX hubs im better to use the VB-VP hubs with the stub stiffeners (conversion hub)that alot of people now make.(Around $400)What do you think?

[dbasteve]

I think the old system (VP) is better for strength and wear resistance.

Just make sure the steel hubs are made from K1045 steel not 4140 which will work harden and crack.

[dattoman1000]

Well unfortunatly the info I had on the hub assy was wrong. Its not a bolt on stub its a replacement unit for the bearing as 1 piece that has replacable bearings.
Unfortunatly due to issues with the grease seals failing under race conditions the units are withdrawn from sale........bugger.
A secret squirrel told me however that they may have been used on the 427GTS that won the 24 hr though this is unconfirmed.If its true though I guess they proved themselves.
However on the plus side. When he has them redesigned he will be incorporating a method of activating the ABS on cars equipped with it. Unfortunatly Holden doesn't use the "chopper" setup so its abit more engineering and design to make it work.

Sorry if I misled anyone hoping for the easy solution.
Do earlier struts fit VR-VT models ?? This would make life so much easier.....but due to that fact they probably don't.

[Thumper]

If you ran a vr hub and strut i reckon you would only have to change the top mount.I dont now of any body that has.We would be running coil over so it would of been ok

[dattoman1000]

The VR still runs the crappy integral bearing though.

Not that this is an issue for me as I have a VB
with VT brakes

[dbasteve]

Correction!

The Bathurst discs on the Subaru did 298 laps (1846km) before the hub change.

The VX did 1066km!