View Full Version : Webber vs Fisi - Your Opinions.... (Malay spoilers)
Alright, for those who stayed up to watch the Malay last night what did you think of the incident between Webber and Fisi? I thought that it was a bit of a reckless move, but one which Webber was quite right in doing, especially with the position he held on the track.
Having been in both situations (sliding and being slid into) i fail to see how Fisi could have even considered taking that line with all the debris from Kimi's car on the track.
From what i can see, both are in the wrong, and itll be put down to a racing incident, but that Fisi was clearly slower than Webber and shouldnt have even tried to pass at that point.
Your thoughts?
sejanus
21-03-05, 07:24 AM
I don't think both were in the wrong. Fisi clearly slid into webber - he actually slid a bloody long way. Webber had the proper line into the corner and was ahead (though only by a nose).
If you looked at the point of impact, there was actually room for a bit over 2 cars to go through that gap from the apex to where the cars hit. If webber wasn't there fisi would have probably slid all the way to the edge of the track or even right off it.
HOWEVER imho what webber should have done is when he saw that fisi took the dirty line he should have used his correct line through that corner to really get a run on fisi down the main straight, he probably would have had enough of a punch out of the corner to get past him on the straight let alone need to outbrake him at corner 1.
very annoying, but I'm sure he'll be on the podium soon enough. For all the talk about the williams being slow in testing it actually looks pretty good and mark did a great job in qualifying. And he did a bloody good job defending at one point against little schuey and heidfield, that was a great few corners. really aggressive top stuff.
I'd classify it as a racing incident. Webber was very aggressive and paid the price. Fisichella was never going to make that corner - he would have been sliding sideways to a stop outside the apex at which point Webber and Heidfeld could mosey past.
I also thought Heidfeld's pass on Webber the few laps before was a bit silly. It was clear that Mark was going to pass Fisichella and that he was a sitting duck for Nick too, so from the team perspective he should have waited till they were both past before having a go at his teammate.
I am very stoked that Webber easily outqualified Heidfeld with a couple more laps of fuel on board too. Webber's car wasn't outright fast like the Renault but it was well balanced - he didn't look to be driving it too hard to maintain a consistent pace. He was lucky that Raikkonen suffered a puncture - otherwise he may have finished in fifth again :(
AndyMac
21-03-05, 10:58 AM
Fisichella has been handed an offical warning for the incident. I don't think Mark should of put his car there, he even commented that he knew that Fisi's tyres where gone. He should of waited.
Yeah, thats why i commented that i think both are in the wrong. Mark for putting his car there, and Fisi for not knowing his limits.
You can't blame Fisi for not giving up. Racing incident is a very fair decision by the stewards.
Both had their part to play in the incident. A Racing incident it was and nothing more. Shame that Webber didnt get onto the podium, oh well next race!
Racing incident... We would have all liked to see it go a different way but wasn't to be
If fisi was a fair racer he would have realized he didn't have much of a hope of staying ahead but being fisi he was in 3rd spot and wanted to keep it at all costs
By rights I think fisi having the inside line and was slightly ahead by the time he began braking webber should have yeilded because he was on the outside (plus he would have known fisi didn't have much hope of stopping for the corner ... I guess he didn't assume fisi would be however stupid enough to run wide...)
With a fair few laps still to go Webber could have surely taken him back in the very near future just such a waste really on a definate 3rd place finish for webber!
Anyone got a vid of what happened? I didn't stay up or tape it
To add some complexity to the arguement, what do you think of Fisi's comments after the accy?
Fisi was mor ein the wrong. He was gone and he knew it. It was useless to even try and defend that tight line.
In hindsight, Webber shouldn't have put his car there, but he's a racer for fuck's sake, and he had Heidfeld all over the back of him thanks to Ralf and then Fisi. If Webber had waited, then all the armchair experts would be saying he doesn't have the balls to race wheel to wheel. His moves with Ralf (and Michael last year) proved he's not afraid of reputations or careers, he's out there to win and score points and be World Champ.
Fisi's comments after are an example of his mindset. They commented about him during the race being obsessed with the condition of the enigne in his car. It sounds like he was having a brain meltdown all weekend.
Hope my folks enjoyed the race over in malaysia..... damn it :D
sejanus
21-03-05, 05:58 PM
the only reason ralf got so close was because of the bloody jordan
The-Kid
21-03-05, 06:47 PM
If Webber had waited, then all the armchair experts would be saying he doesn't have the balls to race wheel to wheel. His moves with Ralf (and Michael last year) proved he's not afraid of reputations or careers, he's out there to win and score points and be World Champ.
Not after that brief contest with Webber, Ralf and Heidfeld.
Dont think I've seen it that hot in F1 for awhile.
Webber handled it nicely.
Webber has to assert himself as a top contender now, no more Mr Nice Guy.
webber had the line fisi went in too hot understeered into him.
tripper
21-03-05, 07:54 PM
so a mistake was made by both ive got a nws clip of a mistake being made.
Webber has to assert himself as a top contender now, no more Mr Nice Guy.
He's far from Mr Nice Guy on the track, remember him chopping Schumacher after exiting the pits last year (can't remember the track), holding him off til his tyres got warm so he could bugger off and chase down the next car :worship:
I predict 1 win for Webber in 2005, and at least 4 podiums ;)
AndyMac
21-03-05, 08:45 PM
Interesting Comments.
After seeing the footage again, it was clearly a poor move by Fisi. But I still think its was equally as poor on Webbo's part. Should of waited.
I don't really think your seeing the real Mark Webber at the moment. I think the saying "get the monkey off his back" really appiles to Mark at the moment, as soon as he gets his first podium, win. I think you'll see him change into a more complete race driver.
1 Win hey Nafe ? I'll agree, what track ? I think he'll win Monaco.
I think he has the skill to win at Monaco - he's done it before in F3000. I'm not sure what the FW27 is like in terms of low-speed aero though. Hopefully the aero boys are working hard - they seem to have made a difference in Sepang.
Seeing Heidfeld on the podium will make Mark's resolve stronger to not only score podiums, but to grab a win, however opportunistic it may be.
In the end webber still has a bit more racecraft to learn and now that he's actually in a competitive car he should have the chance to do just that. Hopefully he watches a video of the race, takes careful note of how kimi dealt with massa in the same situation and goes on to be a better driver.
A damn shame, Webber would have had his first podium. Yep a racing incident a bit both ways, a real shame. Fisi, in hindsight was probably going off but wouldnt have braked so late if Webber hadnt of been pressuring him. This would probably sway me in thinking it was Fisi's fault but Webber shouldnt have been so impatient. Fisi tyres were shot it was only a matter of time before he made a mistake.
On the positive, how good was it to see Mark, Nick and Ralf at it. Some real old fashion F1 racing, with "the Angry Aussie" as the commentator putting it, coming out on top. That for me was a good sign for Mark, he isnt taking a back seat to anyone and its only a matter of time before he is up on the podium.
In the end webber still has a bit more racecraft to learn and now that he's actually in a competitive car he should have the chance to do just that. Hopefully he watches a video of the race, takes careful note of how kimi dealt with massa in the same situation and goes on to be a better driver.
I agree. Can't remember what Kimi did in that corner, but i think webber should not have left Fisi room on the inside. Webber made the same mistake earlier with Ralf sliding into his car but only minor damage resulted to Ralf's car. As soon as Fisi and Ralf saw half an opportunity to outbrake Webber, they took it, and both slid sideways into Webber, only Ralf and Webber were able to drive out of the earlier incident. By Webber moving so far to the right to take the racing line, it looked like he basically invited Fisi and Ralf to outbrake him on the inside.
So, I think it was a racing incident, with Webber more to blame than Fisi. I believe that because Webber was in front before the corner, ie he could pick which line he wanted while approaching the corner, he was in a better position to prevent the passing opportunity. You can't blame Fisi for taking an apparent opportunity to outbrake Webber, as any driver in a competitive car would have taken the same opportunity, ie Ralf.
/quote "I had more race pace than the Williams but I couldn't get by. When I tried, at Turn 15, we collided and after that my car lost some aerodynamic performance." /endquote from "http://www.formula1.com/news/2755.html"
A veteran like Schumacher would have not allowed someone like Fisi to drive beside him without a big fat question mark on whether or not he would have made it. In Fisi's mind as was in Ralf's, Webber had moved across early enough where they thought they had enough time to outbrake him.
i fell asleep and missed it.
Kimi took massa with ease. he pulled to the outside dropped back knowing massa was on the inside and had to brake had so massa would have a slower exit and kimi could maintain speed to overtake him. webber lest too much room on a few occasions and they had a go on the inside.
BOCKY21
28-03-05, 11:40 AM
Anyone watch RPM yesterday and see the interview with Webber?
After the race Fisichella basically said he was sorry etc and the race officals gave him a slap on the wrist.
Also, Webber broke some ribs in Bacelona testing, and came to Australia and raced with them semi broken (not fully heeled yet)
Missed that interview, anyone got a recording of it?
BOCKY21
28-03-05, 11:48 AM
Missed that interview, anyone got a recording of it?
That I do ;)
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