View Full Version : F1 - Imola
sejanus
23-04-05, 11:32 PM
Webber qualified 4th in Q1, looks promising.
Pos Driver Team Time
1. (18) Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:19.886
2. (20) Alonso Renault (M) 1:19.889 + 0.003
3. (5) M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:20.260 + 0.374
4. (16) Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:20.442 + 0.556
5. (8) Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:20.464 + 0.578
6. (19) Trulli Toyota (M) 1:20.492 + 0.606
7. (15) Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:20.593 + 0.707
8. (2) Wurz McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:20.632 + 0.746
9. (6) Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:20.807 + 0.921
10. (7) Sato BAR-Honda (M) 1:20.851 + 0.965
11. (13) Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:20.892 + 1.006
12. (17) R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:20.994 + 1.108
13. (11) Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:20.999 + 1.113
14. (14) Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:21.632 + 1.746
15. (4) Fisichella Renault (M) 1:21.708 + 1.822
16. (1) Liuzzi Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:21.804 + 1.918
17. (3) Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:23.123 + 3.237
18. (12) Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:25.100 + 5.214
19. (9) Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) 1:25.921 + 6.035
20. (10) Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) 1:26.484 + 6.598
What's the number in brackets Gav ?? The order in which they qualified ??
Fisi and DC seem a long way away from where i thought they'd be...
Paul - thats the order they went out in. Based on finish from the previous race.
ie: Alonso won in Bahrain, hence he went out last (20) as reward.
arguement is that the track is in better shape and you also know from a tactical point of view how hard you need to go.
I hope luck smiles on Webber for a change this race and he stays out of trouble
Webber shows the Williams does have some pace, despite it's laps during the free practice sessions.
AndyMac
24-04-05, 08:37 AM
The main problem with the Williams, is much the same as the Jaguar had last year. The thing chews its rear tyres out, this is the reason why you see Webber doing so well in the first couple of laps an then drop off in the mid-late part of the race.
I hope they have been able to correct this during the 3 week break.
I'm hoping for good things tonight - Webber has a good record at Imola.
Although Williams themselves say they have no problem with tyre wear, the rears were looking pretty worn at the end of Bahrain.
if it was happening at jaguar aswell - is it webber and not the car perhaps?
if it was happening at jaguar aswell - is it webber and not the car perhaps?
Webber likes doing skids.
Raikkonen takes Pole.
Alonso
Button
Webber
Trulli
Sato
Wurz
Massa
Heidfield
Barrichello
RSchumacher
Villeneuve
Fisichella
MSchumacher
Doulthard
Liuzzi
Karthikeyan
Monteiro
Friesacher
Albers
Schumi took a trip through the gravel and screwed a top 3 qually spot. Nice work from Webber to trounce Heidfeld again. Hopefully it turns into a podium given BAR's shithouse reliability this year - I predict both Hondas to blow their guts out again at Imola....
I reckon Schumi will go a 3 stopper for the race now. He's screwed on position, so short fuel during the race to keep the speed up. Short pitlane at Imola means he loses less time than normal.
Other predictions:
Villeneuve to spin out.
Barrichello to sneak into the Top 5 by race end
Fisichella to go nowhere
Webber on the podium thanks to Button's Honda engine :D
agreed on barrichello and get top 5
Is there anywhere on the net where you can get live visual coverage of the qualifying/race etc, other than just the live timing on Formula1.com
Formula1.com have the best live timing and it is free, I think you have to pay for everywhere else.
www.f1-live.com and planetf1.com have it methinks
Visual as in live streaming video? As if Bernie would ever allow it without paying some exhorbitant monthly fee.....
yer i was just hoping. i was checking ITV site, see if they had there pre race preview on streaming,
i wish they should that on ten, all of martins stuff, and louise preview, would be awesome. damn can't wait to move to the UK for a few years so i can watch that every grand prix weekend
like me right now :D
just watched a cool little 15min bit on Paul Stoddart & Minardi
Maadmike
24-04-05, 11:13 PM
Cplus - We don't want to hear about that sort of stuff, unless it was recorded mkay!
I'm thinking Webber will finish in the top5, alonso to win and Schumacher to finish on the podium, but not first.
is it over for you guys yet?
Top Race - this season is shaping up as a goodun' :)
ya its over...
fantastic race, one of the best of the year...
looks to be really good season, with ferarri and BAR to match the renault, with performance, to bad about Rhuban as he was looking good would've had a good finish like micheal did.
Don't know what happened with the williams, im thinking they just droped off with tyres, and car being to slow, as both drivers finished same 9-10 as lap times were in the 1.25.5s and earlier during the race they were in the low mid 1.24s, waiting to see drivers qoutes on whats the go... but disapointing with the 4th grid position
Billzilla
25-04-05, 12:57 AM
Did you see the outer half of Alonzo's tyres, 'specially on the right side?
They really got hammered, hope they're still legal.
they didn't have much thread depth at all, either did the ferrari, as far as i remember seeing, on the outer rear,
Webber was disappointing but claims his engine was rev limited.
Top race nonetheless and I echo Brundle's comments - it could rapidly become a Ferrari whitewash :(
Also going back to Brundle mentioning the cars are more difficult to follow with a higher front wing, was painfully obvious when Schuey was following Button through some of the higher speed corners. I started thinking about it and it became a quite obvious that they have moved the wing the wrong way. Sure a higher wing slows the car in it's lap time but a lower wing would accelerate the air under the wing (in a mini ground effect) and not rely so much on the air flowing over the top of the wing.
Keep the rear wing limitations. Rear wing is the second largest source of downforce so that needs to be limited to still keep the lap time down.
Of course the car following is always at a disadvantage aerodynamically but if you minimise that, a car that is 3 seconds a lap faster should be able to pass.
The pace of the Ferrari was awesome to see but really, with all these changes to tyres and the aero packages it is even more of a procession these days. Good example was how Trulli was holding up a train of cars that were quicker than him, but due to the reduced downforce and grip there was not enough speed differential to make passing an option, especially on a track like Imola.
It is funny how on the planetf1 forums people keep saying how Webber is crap. The way I see it is that he qualifies hard, tries to set a good pace but in the end he is driving the car too hard and his final position was an indication of the true pace of the FW27.
No doubt he was held up by Trulli - if he had kept in front of Trulli at the start then he could have built enough of a lead to not have been jumped by Wurz, etc at the first pitstop and possibly the second pitstop.
Webber had a few mishaps and it cost him places.
The Fezza looks as though its gonna be on top again as soon as they qualify them in a decent spot.
Maadmike
25-04-05, 11:58 AM
Results for the lazy ones:
Times
1 F. Alonso Renault 1:27:41.921
2 M. Schumacher Ferrari + 0.215
3 J. Button BAR + 10.481
4 A. Wurz McLaren + 27.554
5 T. Sato BAR + 34.783
6 J. Villeneuve Sauber + 1:04.442
7 J. Trulli Toyota + 1:10.258
8 R. Schumacher Toyota + 1:10.841
9 N. Heidfeld Williams + 1:11.282
10 M. Webber Williams + 1:23.297
11 V. Liuzzi Red Bull + 1:23.764
12 F. Massa Sauber + 1 laps
13 D. Coulthard Red Bull + 1 laps
14 N. Karthikeyan Jordan + 1 laps
15 T. Monteiro Jordan + 2 laps
16 C. Albers Minardi + 41 laps
17 R. Barrichello Ferrari + 44 laps
18 P. Friesacher Minardi + 54 laps
19 K. Räikkönen McLaren + 54 laps
20 G. Fisichella Renault + 57 laps
I didn't get to watch the race, but from what i've read Schumi is still the fastest out there by far..Alonso even admitted it, saying all he could do was hold him up mid corner and get on the throttle a little earlier than Schumi.
AndyMac
25-04-05, 11:58 AM
In all fairness.
I doubt if Webber would of ben able to hold those positions.
No way could Webber have held his position. Car was simply not fast enough in 'race' trim. Also he had to slow the revs down to finish the race as the engine was on it's second leg. Interesting that Heidfeld couldn't do much more with a fresh engine, unless they also slowed him down because he couldn't take 8th. Conserve the engine for the next race perhaps.
:worship: Schumi's run. How fucking good was that. Shame the aero regs mean passing is pretty much bullshit on that circuit. Although Webber did a great number on Sato in the first lap or so.
Nice work by Alonso, didn't buckle, and used his head. No wonder the Spanish GP has sold out, they are going to go nuts if he wins again.
WTF is up with Fisichella. Shithouse qually, and shithouse race. Was Melbourne a flash in the pan?
AndyMac
25-04-05, 04:50 PM
I wonder if Webber is thinking "what if" he took that Toyota Seat ? Instead of going with a famous tradational name like Williams ? (I would of done the same mind you...)
Is it time to start worrying about Mark ? My heart says no, its the car, but my head is asking questions. Does is drive the rear end too hard ? Why does he always get bad starts.....
As for Fisichella, he took a gamble with Renault, I can't see them putting up with lacklustre performances for too long (ask Trulli..) Can't see another team willing to pick Fisi up as a race driver if Renault disacard him either. Its make or break for him at Renault.
The car was a pig through that last chicane.
I think it would be more 'what if' about Renault. Renault was more of an option than Toyota. Is Fisico stuggling with form? Or is he struggling with a team that is swinging it's momentum behind their (and Flavio's) golden boy - Fernando? Hmmm.... wouldn't wanna be in that situation if I was Mark.
sejanus
25-04-05, 06:50 PM
it's a litttle concerning that webber was 12secs behind heidfield - who in turn was obviously held up by RS.
12secs is a pretty big gap, engine limits included.
his mistakes in every race are starting to get a bit costly - at the least he should have held 6th in this one.
I wonder if Webber is thinking "what if" he took that Toyota Seat ? Instead of going with a famous tradational name like Williams ? (I would of done the same mind you...)
Remember he had the renault option also doesnt look like a bad car to be in at the moment.
all the team is behind alonso, so fisi dont even get a car that is the same as him. even in practice and qualifying they are not giving fisi any help.
webber has no excuses for his errors that saw him slide down the field. his fastest time was even slower than the jordan of the rookie indian driver
Imola - fastest laps in the race :
1. Michael Schumacher - Ferrari - 1'21.858 - lap 48
2. Jenson Button - BAR Honda - 1'22.604 - lap 22
3. Alexander Wurz - McLaren Mercedes - 1'23.023 - lap 24
4. Fernando Alonso - Renault - 1'23.133 - lap 22
5. Kimi Raikkonen - McLaren Mercedes - 1'23.296 - lap 8
6. Takuma Sato - BAR Honda - 1'23.368 - lap 23
7. Tonio Liuzzi - Red Bull Cosworth - 1'23.488 - lap 46
8. Felipe Massa - Sauber Petronas - 1'23.602 - lap 37
9. Nick Heidfeld - Williams BMW - 1'23.917 - lap 54
10. Jacques Villeneuve - Sauber Petronas - 1'24.017 - lap 45
11. Jarno Trulli - Toyota - 1'24.022 - lap 44
12. Narain Karthikeyan - Jordan Toyota - 1'24.094 - lap 20
13. Ralf Schumacher - Toyota - 1'24.230 - lap 19
14. Mark Webber - Williams BMW - 1'24.419 - lap 17
15. Rubens Barrichello - Ferrari - 1'24.435 - lap 13
16. David Coulthard - Red Bull Cosworth - 1'24.641 - lap 22
17. Tiago Monteiro - Jordan Toyota - 1'24.719 - lap 19
18. Giancarlo Fisichella - Renault - 1'25.665 - lap 4
19. Christijan Albers - Minardi Cosworth - 1'27.420 - lap 18
20. Patrick Friesacher - Minardi Cosworth - 1'28.334 - lap 5
sejanus
26-04-05, 10:24 AM
Whats scary about that is that schumacher did a 1:22.6 equalling buttons fastest lap straight after a refuel.
Apparently Button's car was found to be underweight after the race. It was legal weight up until they drained the fuel, and then it went under (fuel not allowed to be used as ballast).
Stewards let BAR keep the results, but the FIA is now launching an appeal against it. Interesting stuff.
Notice Karthikeyan was also faster than Rubens, Ralf and DC? And only just behind Trulli and Heidfeld. Must have been a balltearer of a single lap.... :D
Karthikeyan is much faster than his teammate. I'm surprised it took him till age 28 to get a drive.
sejanus
26-04-05, 11:12 AM
oh btw, does anyone have an account on the f1racingworld torrent site? (need an invite from existing member to join)
:worship: :worship:
Karthikeyan was one of those immensely hyped drivers. But he also appears to be a Takuma/Massa clone in that he's erratic and prone to trying too hard and throwing the car into the scenery until he's been in a category for a while.....
Sejanus - Nope, but invite me once you get one :p
Nafe, the only failure Karthikeyan has had is a mech failure in Bahrain.
He's done a good job in F1 so far, don't get me wrong. I'm more thinking in previous categories. Given he's 28 and I remember reading about him closer to 10 years ago when he was an emerging talent and India's great hope for a racing driver. It's taken him a while, but he's there. His results in lesser formulae haven't been great either, much like Pizzonia. Not bad, but not great, and certainly not thumping the opposition.
had this thought through the last 13 laps when schuey was chasin alonso....y didnt he jus go for broke n jus try anything, even if it means takin both of them out of the race...in schueys case it wouldnt really matter, in fact it wouldve been a better result for schuey.
If schuey had been in an accident with alonso, both of them out of the race n the championship lead alonso had wouldve been the same, if schuey passes him, gained 2 points, but the way it ended up, schuey lost more ground, another 2 points to alonso.
jus my 2 cents
Last time he did that he got disqualified from the championship :D
He did have something to lose too, 8 points. Not as good as 10, but better than 0.
Schumi is thinking 2003...... every last point mattered in the end.
Webber is qualifying better than he should, and the car is good on fresh tyres. Then in the race he has to overdrive it and that kills the rears. Until they fix the aero on the car to maintain a better balance, this is all we are going to see from Mark.
Schueys car I think is slow on new tyres, then the more worn they are the better they perform. him explaining that he misjudged a bump is really only covering Bridgestones weak spot at them moment. His full fuel lap was at least 1.5 seconds faster than anyone else went with full tanks from what I could work out. Bridgestone can surely figure out what was happening in the early tyre performance and match the speed they get with them near the end of the race, and it will be Ferrari on top again.
Just a matter of how long it takes. I was initially happy to see them struggle, but Jaysus Flavio is a cock head. Also fernando is a cocky cunt. IO'll be glad to see them losing again real soon.
Muz
Webber is qualifying better than he should, and the car is good on fresh tyres. Then in the race he has to overdrive it and that kills the rears. Until they fix the aero on the car to maintain a better balance, this is all we are going to see from Mark.
He was killing the rears in his last car too maybe its not just bad aero.
Heard words that the McLaren should pick up a fair amount of pace for the Spanish grand prix. Looking forward to it.
i dont think if schuey did get 0 points itd be that bad...as long as alonso got 0 as well...then at least the championship lead would be the same....but the way it is now, alonso gained another 2 points on him.
i think webber might be tryin a bit too hard to try to get results out of the williams, look at heidfeld, he jus cruises along and gets the points. Hurts to say this, but i think Webbers chances of getting podiums this year might be fast running out with the big guns starting to show form (Ferrari, BAR, Mclaren), but whos to say Williams wont have a blinder during the mid season breaks and jus blow them away. But honestly i wont be holdin my breathe for that moment, they havent really been that consistent since the Villenuve days.
He was killing the rears in his last car too maybe its not just bad aero.
My interpretation of this is that he is overdriving an uncompetitive car, therefore killing rears. That is what happens if you push too hard. Won't hurt you in a 1 lap screamer, but over a race distance...
Muz
Webber is showing signs of frustration IMHO, the Jaguar last year and now the bloody Williams :huh:
AndyMac
28-04-05, 01:18 PM
i dont think if schuey did get 0 points itd be that bad...as long as alonso got 0 as well...then at least the championship lead would be the same....but the way it is now, alonso gained another 2 points on him.
i think webber might be tryin a bit too hard to try to get results out of the williams, look at heidfeld, he jus cruises along and gets the points. Hurts to say this, but i think Webbers chances of getting podiums this year might be fast running out with the big guns starting to show form (Ferrari, BAR, Mclaren), but whos to say Williams wont have a blinder during the mid season breaks and jus blow them away. But honestly i wont be holdin my breathe for that moment, they havent really been that consistent since the Villenuve days.
Williams is "suppose" to be a big gun. Usually Ferrari Williams McLaren and now new boy Renault are the major guys
Well BAR turned their car from a bottom 10 finisher into top 5 finisher in one race so it's always possible Williams could find the one aero component that is holding the car back. Perhaps optimistic :(
give me an angle grinder and a case of beer and ill fix it
I reckon it needs:
1: Thermo fan removed and clutch fan refitted
2: More Ackermann.
:D
Muz
Yeh, Gary, Muz and moi will fix the sucker. Or else get pissed trying :lol:
Maybe you can put a van turbo on it. That might give it the edge :D
Those F1 guys would call it bodgy. They have forgotten their roots- actually, they may never have welded steel flanges to cast iron and hung a turbo off it...:D
Muz
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