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GSRman
04-07-06, 03:54 PM
Been thinking i would like some in-car video/sound for hillclimbs/khana that kind of thing, with the intention of pretty much leaving it setup on the car most of the time, but with the ability to take it out and slap it on the bike every now and again..

i was thinking about building a PC for my car with a capture card, but i started to think i'll break it.. HDD's and that kind of thing, plus booting up etc.. don't think it will really serve my purposes best..

i want digital video so i can stick it on the PC easiest, and ive come across this..

http://www.chasecam.com/recorders/pdr.htm among a few other systems, and am thinking it might be nice.. wondering if anyone had any options/opinions?

ox!gen
04-07-06, 03:56 PM
lipstick cam + feed to any dv camera to record ftw imnsho hth

GSRman
04-07-06, 03:57 PM
DV cams aren't particularly cheap, and i would prefer as few moving parts as possible and for it to be relatively dust unworried.

Nick
04-07-06, 04:18 PM
That chasecam looks pretty cool, would be interesting to see how the video encoding quality is.. That fact it uses CF cards are pretty good, they are getting cheap now days.

EDIT: Infact I want one!!!

ox!gen
04-07-06, 04:23 PM
^ no information on the video quality of that recorrder i'd be careful :/ could be just what you're after if it's good.

GSRman
04-07-06, 04:36 PM
check the sample vids.. its pretty good..

nick: if theres a few of us, i might think about a group buy..i recon we could get the cameras and mounts etc locally cheaper, but the actual boxes..

10sec rx7
04-07-06, 04:46 PM
steve

i bolted my sony digi cam into my car, it got some really good footage

demuire
04-07-06, 05:37 PM
http://www.twitchy.com.au has some rather cheap kits. And I have some footage from his "cheap" 420 line $450 kit on my website, combined with some footage from an even cheaper 320 line CMOS camera.

GSRman
04-07-06, 05:56 PM
you can get those media player things they sell in that kit for $225 elsewhere, and the cameras cheaper too, ive seen his sample video and i didn't like it much..

here's a link to that sample vid http://webzoom.freewebs.com/doctor_z/520%20cam.mpg

and http://www.cpdserver.com/chasecam/video/crash-med.wmv chasecam vid (its 25mb)

they are a world apart in my opinion..

feral4mr2
05-07-06, 06:42 PM
i've been useing the olds kodak digital camera mounted on the center console doobie. doesnt so too bad a job, but not very clear.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=feral4mr2

i've recently bought a Cannon S2 powershot that has a 30 frame rate/second video capture with stereo sound vs the 13 frame rate/second the kodak had. havnt used it in the feral yet but it does a very clean picture, not pixelised like the kodak.
i've got a 1gig card for it and just plug it into the laptop after filming. :)

i've been looking at maybe getting something like this for sticking outside the car.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WIRELESS-COLOR-HELMET-ACTION-CAM-CAMERA-1GB-SD-CARD_W0QQitemZ250002112351QQihZ015QQcategoryZ39834 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

2510s
05-07-06, 07:19 PM
lipstick cam + feed to any dv camera to record ftw imnsho hth
I agree here, in all of our Targa cars we used 2 x lipstick cams (one on driver one out windscreen) feeding to a DV cam in a pouch behind the passenger seat.

demuire
05-07-06, 07:38 PM
GSRMan: Where did you find the cameras? I've had trouble finding 520 line (or higher) 1/3" cameras... Most of the ones I've found are 1/4".

ox!gen
05-07-06, 08:01 PM
nothing wrong with a 1/4" sensor for sd...

GSRman
05-07-06, 08:48 PM
dem: for PAL ive only found 420-480 line cameras...

SLO78U
05-07-06, 09:41 PM
i don't understand all the technical bable but i'm keen if there is a group buy !!! something i can fit to the car with possibilt 2/3 cameras mounted. also use on bike 1 on helmet one on bike. something robust if possible ..... i have heavy hands !!

James

FiXXXeR
05-07-06, 09:45 PM
im down for a group buy! id love one for track days or the midnight run

Billzilla
05-07-06, 09:54 PM
I use a Samsung VPX-110L for my in-car stuff. It uses an internal 1gig memory so there's no moving parts to fall apart.
The picture isn't the best but it does the job for me.
The Fraser (http://www.billzilla.org/fraser-race.wmv)
The racing car (http://www.billzilla.org/racer1.wmv)
The racing car again (http://www.billzilla.org/racer2.wmv)

Roadsailing
05-07-06, 10:04 PM
My pentax optio S5n (digital camera) takes pretty decent video, have used it incar a few times, just ratchet strap the tripod to something. i just bought a 1 gig memory card for it, so it will record 40 minutes of video now.

only problem is the sound cuts out when you go over bumps/ripple strips (not a huge deal) but i think insulating the camera with some foam will help this.

demuire
05-07-06, 11:58 PM
ox!gen: The 1/3 ones appear to handle contrast and changes in lighting better.

gsrman: Comparing the 520 and the 420 line cameras that twitchy has, even recording with just the simple mp4 unit (if anyone is interested in these let me know) there is a difference in quality of recording.

demuire
06-07-06, 12:11 AM
Here is the video I took with the kit that Twitchy has (with the 420 line 1/3 camera):

https://fileshare.qut.edu.au/public/leefs/SS6___Gympie_Circuit.wmv

Just watched the footage from chasecam, and yes agree that the quality is better. However for approx AUD500 for the recorder, + memory + camera, probably looking at about $800'ish for a simple setup? Would be nice if you've got the money, but if not the mp4 recorders are a cheap way to go :) And you can pick up 420 line 1/4" cameras on ebay for about $80 or so delivered :) So... Assuming you could get a 512Mb MP4 for $200 delivered (very possible :p), $80 for camera, and you have a simple setup for $280 with about half an hour of recording time straight out of the box :)

I'm currently trying to source some mp4 units that record at a higher resolution (looking for 640x480@30fps. The ones I'm using at the moment are at 320x240@30fps). I think I've found one for about $250 + postage, but am yet to see if it will really do what I want it to do...

GSRman
06-07-06, 07:22 AM
i don't know what it is about those media encoders.. whether they run out of processing power or something, just not enough bandwidth or something..

I was thinking about getting the 'magic box' from the us and then get other stuff locally.. but there is an attraction to getting the camera and microphone etc they sell thats already wired up ready to go..

demuire
06-07-06, 07:32 AM
i don't know what it is about those media encoders.. whether they run out of processing power or something, just not enough bandwidth or something..

I was thinking about getting the 'magic box' from the us and then get other stuff locally.. but there is an attraction to getting the camera and microphone etc they sell thats already wired up ready to go..

Yeah I suspect that they run out of processing power or something. Although considering virtually 95% of them seem to run the same software, maybe they're all built on the same hardware as well, and no one has been bothered to create one that encodes at a higher resolution yet :)

I like the way the ChaseCam also comes with a single plug, where's if you got a camera from elsewhere you'd have 2 (power and feed). I'd love to get one of these kits, but yeah, it's a fair bit of money...

bigmuz
06-07-06, 07:52 AM
Here is the video I took with the kit that Twitchy has (with the 420 line 1/3 camera):

https://fileshare.qut.edu.au/public/leefs/SS6___Gympie_Circuit.wmv


Holy crap! You took a whole box of fast pills that day mate! Shit it pulls hard on those rare occasions it is on the bitumen!

Nick
06-07-06, 07:53 AM
I've got a fairly high end 3CCD Sony DVPRO camera that I really don't want to take inside cars, more so race cars. So I think this PDR from chasecam seems to be great! Basicaly you are looking at $1000 for a complete setup.
I was alittle confused on thier online store, they rate the NTSC bullet cam as 520lines but the PAL as 480lines... it's normally the otherway around so I think I'll email them and check that is not a stuff up typo on the store.

GSRman
06-07-06, 08:04 AM
nick: if you are going to e-mail them want to ask if it starts a new file each time you press record? or if its the same long file per CF card?

want to sound them out about buying 5+ or something?

i think its because the newer higher quality cameras are only out in NTSC at the moment?

Nick
06-07-06, 09:46 AM
Got a reponse already.



At 03:16 PM 7/5/2006, you wrote:

Hello,

I have a couple of questions regarding the PDR I hope you can answer.

1. With the files that the PDR captures, does the PDR make a new file on the CF card for each recording session or is it one long file?

Every time you hit stop and start record, it creates a new file. It is simple though to stitch files into one later using a video editor program.



2. Does the system take some time to boot? Does it run a version of linux?

It uses a special dedicated OS. It is very fast. 2-3 seconds to boot.



3. What would be the price benefit for buying 5+?

Small benefit frankly. We do have pricing for 10+. I can work with you.




Also a question regarding the bullet cams.

1. On the online store you list the PAL bullet cam as only 480 lines and the NTSC as 520 lines, normally NTSC is 480 lines, is this a typo?

No, it is a higher res as measured at 520 lines.

Randy




Regards

Nick


Randy Chase
http://www.chasecam.com/
Video at Speed
Chase Product Development, Inc.
(619) 583-4193
FAX (619) 583-5607
CELL (619) 916-8969

GSRman
06-07-06, 10:03 AM
f*ck, that was quick.. :)

so 10 is the target for a group buy.. interesting :)

I'm just about ready to commit :)

GSRman
06-07-06, 11:26 AM
nick: wanna find out about pricing on 10?

Cal
06-07-06, 12:34 PM
I agree here, in all of our Targa cars we used 2 x lipstick cams (one on driver one out windscreen) feeding to a DV cam in a pouch behind the passenger seat.

Which lipstick cam exactly? I don't imagine those guys muck about.

Cal.

ox!gen
06-07-06, 01:08 PM
NTSC is 480 lines... pal is 576 if i remember rightly. :edit: pal DV is 576. it's 720 wide 4:3, pal is 768 wide 4:3

FoMoCo
06-07-06, 02:32 PM
found this..

http://www.helmetcamera.com.au/home.htm

Aus company which is always good. And for the same price as the chasecam camera (US$275 = AU$370) you can get a 560 waterproof one from Aus...

interesting the camera by itself is cheaper from their other store..
http://www.hiddencamera.com.au/cool_gadgets/helmetcamera_waterproofcam.html

It mentions on the site that the cameras were used to shoot GhostRider 4..

Nero
06-07-06, 08:17 PM
I'm interested, but I need high resolution images as the website is going to start doing video stuff when it is up.

datsqik
08-07-06, 10:09 PM
Im pretty keen on any group buy going on these chasecam magic boxes.

GSRman
09-07-06, 08:12 AM
nero: off the chasecam website they have a forum with an FAQ and he has some vids in native format there if you wanted to see.

I'm in for the group buy (if its a decent saving to offset the hassle :P)

GSRman
09-07-06, 08:17 AM
from the chasecam site.. .


We are sold out for all July PDR orders and are now taking orders for August delivery. :(

Nero
09-07-06, 09:09 PM
I'd like something better than the chasecam from that sample.

GSRman
10-07-06, 07:10 AM
I had trouble playing this sample without the mpg2 decoder, i then ripped it to divx and played it on my DVD player, looked REALLY good on tv.

http://www.chasecam.com/video/normal.mpg

GSRman
10-07-06, 04:17 PM
psst southo.. your thoughts?

GSRman
16-07-06, 07:43 AM
I suspect im going to lash out and purchase one shortly :)

GSRman
21-11-06, 07:07 PM
i lashed out..

http://www.sl666.net/cars/chasecam/setup1.jpg
http://www.sl666.net/cars/chasecam/setup2.jpg

for the bike..
http://www.sl666.net/cars/chasecam/smallbattery.jpg


first vids here..

http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67210035

Mike V
22-11-06, 08:45 AM
Google "Interframe compression" and "Intraframe compression" to find out why Mini-DV is better for origination than MPEG based solid state recorders.


About the best lipstick cameras are the Sony XC-999 and XC-777, but they are fairly expensive.


If you are planning on one of these cameras, you will want the 3mm lens (the 6mm is not wide enough).


If you mount the camera outside. Always use a clear filter.
Even the tiniest blemish on the front element of the 3mm will show on the picture i.e one speck of dirt hitting the front element at speed = ruined lens.


PAL is 768 x 576 square pixels, but the thing is with most digital formats (like DV) the pixels are not quite square so the resolution becomes 720 x 576.

Chad
22-11-06, 09:16 AM
If you are planning on one of these cameras, you will want the 3mm lens (the 6mm is not wide enough).


Plesae explain this point? I don't know much about cameras

Mike V
22-11-06, 09:18 AM
If you are going to get an XC-999 camera, budget for a 3mm lens because the 6mm that people often buy with it (because it is cheaper) is not really wide enough for use on cars.

Billzilla
22-11-06, 09:23 AM
If you are going to get an XC-999 camera, budget for a 3mm lens because the 6mm that people often buy with it (because it is cheaper) is not really wide enough for use on cars.


To people that understand millimetres and not optics (like me) that still doesn't make a lot of sense.

Mike V
22-11-06, 09:25 AM
You guys are playing with me right?

demuire
22-11-06, 09:28 AM
3mm is wider angle than 6mm. Or something like that. So you can see more stuff. Like, 6mm is more "zoomed in" than 3mm.

MikeV: Is there very much difference in picture quality between 1/4 and 1/3 sensors? 1/4 is SO much cheaper...

Chad
22-11-06, 12:03 PM
3mm is wider angle than 6mm. Or something like that. So you can see more stuff. Like, 6mm is more "zoomed in" than 3mm.

MikeV: Is there very much difference in picture quality between 1/4 and 1/3 sensors? 1/4 is SO much cheaper...

thanks demuire, now I understand better. I assumed something that was 6mm was wider than 3mm...seems obvious to a nuff nuff like me...

Cal
22-11-06, 01:42 PM
Do these ones plug into a digital video camera?

Cal.

GSRman
22-11-06, 03:28 PM
mikev: so its a solid state thing and there's nothing i can do about it?

Nick
22-11-06, 03:32 PM
Do these ones plug into a digital video camera?

Cal.

Cal, most lipstick cameras have composite output, some have s-video and really rare high end ones have component. So all analog and I know just about every mini-dv cam has analog in.

When I get some spare coin I'll be getting a racecam and 520line one

Cal
22-11-06, 03:48 PM
Thanks Nick. I just use the camera on the rollbar of the car at them moment, but thought it would be cool to put it behind the seat or something and run a cable to some funky places like the sill behind the front wheel ect.

Cal.

Nick
22-11-06, 03:55 PM
Google "Interframe compression" and "Intraframe compression" to find out why Mini-DV is better for origination than MPEG based solid state recorders.


Mike, been reading a bit and getting side tracked and ended up reading up on D5 Production equipment.

Now I know Mini-DV (DVCAM atleast) would use Interframe Compression (comparing the next frame and only changing what needs to be changed) with I-frames etc and MPEG solid state recorders use Intraframe Compression (Compressing single frames as you would a jpeg) but I fail to understand how one could be better than the other? Could you explain it alittle?

I'd gladly put a solid state recorder into a car before a nice DVCAM or HDCAM.

Mike V
22-11-06, 09:05 PM
The memory card recorder is compressing the video picture over a number of frames.

This makes it more difficult to edit because you have to convert to another video format to be able to edit on the exact frame you want.

This takes computing power, time and often reduces the video quality.

Mini-DV only compresses within each individual frame so there is no problem editing on any frame you want.

If you just want to record the camera and then watch it back then there is no problem and it is a good way to go.

The difficulty is when you want to edit the footage. Sure it can be done, but is just more troublesome.

Try editing some video from a DVD to test your editing workflow to see if it will be a hassle for you.




The Sony lipstick cameras I was talking about earlier (XC-999, XC-777, XC-555 etc) have a screw lens mount (C-Mount) that you screw small fixed lenses to.

The commonly available lenses for these are 3mm, 6mm and 12mm.

The 3mm lens gives the widest field of view of the three and is most suitable for car stuff.



Sorry, I'm not explaining this well. I think I'm just confusing people.

GSRman
23-11-06, 05:14 AM
i didn't have any trouble editing it.. not that i really did anything flash with it though..

once i get my better camera im going to have a play with the quality settings.. (i'll also have my external mic then)

I'm not too worried, and im half wondering if its got something to do with the codec i have.. (it seems to look better on my laptop than my PC?) but once i rip it to divx to go on the intehnet you can't see the effect..

I looked around for a while.. because i wanted something that was easy to get the data onto my PC, *AND* wasn't going to call it quits on every bump..


Incidentally, the guys that make it are working on an interface into motec's etc and G meters :)

Cal
23-11-06, 11:35 AM
The 3mm lens gives the widest field of view of the three and is most suitable for car stuff.

How much are these?

Cal.

demuire
15-12-06, 09:52 AM
Bringing this topic back up, what microphones do people use with bullet cam setups? All the ones I've seen with kits have the tiny microphone with the built in 12v pre-amp, but I can't find any at the shops...

Coolie
15-12-06, 11:04 AM
http://static.flickr.com/23/29362965_15433a4a59.jpg

Nuf said

Cal
15-12-06, 11:52 AM
Very professional. :p

Cal.

demuire
15-12-06, 02:47 PM
haha :)

I've found one at allthings.com.au:
http://www.allthings.com.au/Catalogue/Things/tiny%20spy%20bug%20microphone%20preamplifier%20cap sule.html

But yeah, I wonder if I can buy this anywhere in Brisbane, so I don't have to pay $16 postage for a $29 microphone!

Cal
15-12-06, 03:40 PM
I'd have a sniff around at Jaycar Fook.

Cal.

tinkers
15-12-06, 08:51 PM
Coolie, you can buy "BMX Helmet cams" now, my boys asked for one for xmas.
But your version looks better :p

http://i22.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/5f/30/af_1_b.JPG

Ebay Store (http://stores.ebay.com.au/launchhelmetcams)

demuire
15-12-06, 11:07 PM
Cal: I did, well at least their website anyway. And DSE too. Couldn't find anything :(

demuire
15-12-06, 11:29 PM
Yay, found a mic in the US for AUD30 inc postage. If I buy more than 1 it would probably be closer to AUD25 each, which is about as much as most powered tie-clip mics seem to cost. Heh, cheaper to buy from the US than from Perth...

ps: anyone here want one? :)

GSRman
16-12-06, 06:14 AM
in aus..

http://www.helmetcamera.com.au/products_higainmike.htm

Jim
16-12-06, 09:53 AM
I bought a $399 battery powered mpeg recorder from jaycar, and a cheap battery powered micro camera. I'm fitting this into the car today actually, mostly to record all the fucktards that try and kill me on the road to work every morning.

The whole lot wiring and all weighs less than my cup of coffee, and uses an SD memory card.