PDA

View Full Version : Molasses dip for car bodies



edo
16-01-08, 08:37 AM
I saw a thing on Ch31 last night & this dude has a massive tank in his back yard that he uses to strip car bodies. Apparently its filled with 16000 litres of molassses...it removes paint & rust apparently.

Anyone heard of this?....I knew you could make molasses cookies & that you bung it on horses feet if they get dry & crack but geez, is there anything it cant do?

Wondering if this is a realistic option for stripping the capri...I assume its not acidic (massive assuption) & therefore wouldnt cause rust if a bit was left over.

2ofdem
16-01-08, 08:47 AM
Ive heard about it being used on panels but its a strip everything then dip it in as a rust treatment thing.

lumpy
16-01-08, 09:04 AM
Just get a big tank of dichloromethane (methylene chloride). Will strip paint and not be too acidic or caustic.

Try not to breathe too much in.

Maybe take note of this too.

http://www.nicnas.gov.au/Publications/NICNAS_Alerts/Alert_3_Methylenechloride_PDF.pdf

edo
16-01-08, 09:23 AM
Sounds like something I want nothing to do with Lumpy:)

I reckon I'll still get it media blasted...will those blokes do underneath & everything as well? Or does it need to be on a spit for that?

JayTHEFordman
16-01-08, 09:24 AM
Just get a big tank of dichloromethane (methylene chloride). Will strip paint and not be too acidic or caustic.

Try not to breathe too much in.

Maybe take note of this too.

http://www.nicnas.gov.au/Publications/NICNAS_Alerts/Alert_3_Methylenechloride_PDF.pdf


Yeah, this does paint real good, and is a main component of many paint strippers. Definitely not good to breath, it will fuck you up very quickly. If it doesn't kill you immediately, cancer will probably get you later on down the track.

BoganDAVE
16-01-08, 09:25 AM
soda blast

/thread

lumpy
16-01-08, 09:41 AM
I was just mucking around although a few furniture stripping places have them. There are "safer" alternatives around these days that are less acutely toxic.

I thought the biggest problem with dipping was the removal of paint from all the little nooks and crannies that you miss when it gets sprayed after dipping, leading to rust problems further on.

Dip then hot-dip galvanising would be the way to go! I wonder if anyone has a big enough tank to galvanise a car.

C0V3R
16-01-08, 09:46 AM
They probably do if your pockets are deep enough ;)

edo
16-01-08, 10:07 AM
soda blast

/thread

Yeah I think thats what will happen...hope they dont mind crawling underneath to get all the gunk off

Once its all cleaned up, how long can I leave it before I have to paint it...because there will be a bit of work I have to do between these stages.

C0V3R
16-01-08, 10:32 AM
After stripping a whole car by hand theres no way in hell I would do it again unless I was a poor student with heaps of time and no money (again).

BoganDAVE
16-01-08, 10:33 AM
just get some car tyres and tip that fucker on its side.


b.t.w. don't do this

C0V3R
16-01-08, 10:34 AM
edo I think they normally epoxy prime it up straight after so rust doesnt set in with a lot of these blasting services. Probably optional but I'd be inclined to take it up. All it takes is a brush of a sweaty hand or a really really humid day and rust will start within hours of stripping.

The Pupat
16-01-08, 11:10 AM
Dip then hot-dip galvanising would be the way to go! I wonder if anyone has a big enough tank to galvanise a car.

Industrial Galv in Brisbane do, they dip light poles in it.

Hot dipping something like a car sounds like the work of the devil to me though.

edo
16-01-08, 11:11 AM
Cov3r, Oh, that sounds sensible...I might organise to get this done fairly soon then.

In case you hadnt noticed...my experience & knowledge regarding bodywork & paint is pretty much zero.

Euroboost
16-01-08, 11:20 AM
I thought hot dipping a car would warp the crap out of it, thin panels. I've looked at heavyduty, read rated more then my car at the time, 6x4 box trailers in the past and most of them were warped after the hotdip gal. The sales bloke even stated they have a disclaimer saying that the trailers WILL warp when hotdipped.

Soarin
16-01-08, 11:20 AM
Dip then hot-dip galvanising would be the way to go! I wonder if anyone has a big enough tank to galvanise a car.

The local (Industrial) galvanisers are limited to 1.7m wide (possibly not an issue), otherwise length and height should not be an problem for most car bodies. The biggest problem would be blowing holes in everything so that it all fills and drains properly. Price would run to over $600, and the finish would be pretty shite, plus any chips in the paint will probably blister from the white rust.

EDIT: too slow. And good point Euroboost - car panels are going to be thinner than plate trailers.

HoonBoy
16-01-08, 11:23 AM
I got a bonnet dipped in some sort of chemical. They then put some other sort of chemical on it to stop the rust. It sat for a few weeks before it was pulled apart for repairs and there was no rust on it. However, the skin had to come off the frame so it could be painted where you can't get to but rust like to start. I don't see that being easy with an entire car.

Most primers are only good for a few months before they suck up moisture or get to a point that you need to strip it off before doing the proper painting. I would wait until it was ready for paint before getting it done.

edo
16-01-08, 11:34 AM
Im just reading a bit on Soda blasting...sounds like it might suck

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/soda-blasting-83749-2.html?highlight=soda+blasting

Smashed S15 Bloke
16-01-08, 12:09 PM
There is a big ad inside the cover on Unique Cars re: soda blasting.

seems to be the go.

fezi
16-01-08, 12:14 PM
I'm sure there was an article in Street Rodding about the molasses cleaning shite a few issues ago...

thechuckster
16-01-08, 12:28 PM
molasses dip would encourage rust if you didn't remove it all post dip - and as it has the consistency of diff oil - you'd need tonnes of hot steamy water to disolve/remove the gunk - thus making the thing extremely prone to rust.

coating an old knife sharpener in molasses, letting it drip dry then hang it out in the weather for a while is a way of encouraging rust and pitting - thus making the knife sharpener useful again - hardly what you want to do your car.

soda blasting is reputed to be a lot softer on panels than sand - some places also use a media made of crushed nut shells?

HoonBoy
16-01-08, 12:46 PM
You don't want soda blasting. It will only remove the paint, then you will have to pay someone else to remove the rust before repairing it. If you get the correct stripping process, the rust will be gone at the same time.

BMWTurbo
16-01-08, 12:54 PM
Hot Dip Galv would add a big chunk of weight to the car. It would also create an average finish to the panels, if you could get them to stay straight.

I've had a mate who Soda Blasted his car prior to respray, bog and rust can stay in panels, and you get 'grit' everywhere, it's a nightmare to clean out.

A light sand blasting would probably be cheaper, but again you have to deal with product in nooks and crannies.


What is the purpose of the stripping? show car paint finish or just clean neat and tidy?

Pete
16-01-08, 12:54 PM
soda blasting is reputed to be a lot softer on panels than sand - some places also use a media made of crushed nut shells?

Normally walnut shells dried and crushed to whatever size is needed.

Very effective but I have no idea of the costs.

Cheers , Pete.

edo
16-01-08, 12:54 PM
There is bugger all rust in the car as it is...

I was just interested in this Molasses thing as I had never heard of it.

Apparently soda blasting is likely to leave caustic deposits in places you cant get to just like dipping does. The suggested solution is anything from glass beads to plastic to walnut shells...

edo
16-01-08, 12:57 PM
Hot Dip Galv would add a big chunk of weight to the car. It would also create an average finish to the panels, if you could get them to stay straight.

I've had a mate who Soda Blasted his car prior to respray, bog and rust can stay in panels, and you get 'grit' everywhere, it's a nightmare to clean out.

A light sand blasting would probably be cheaper, but again you have to deal with product in nooks and crannies.


What is the purpose of the stripping? show car paint finish or just clean neat and tidy?

Its a race car & I just want to remove all the crap that its various resprays have left it with...I also want all the filler & seam sealer gone so that everything is done nice & new again.
I also want to remove great globs (yes, I made a word) of that bloody spray on body deadener that is all over the underside.

Oh, I had never really considered gal...its a dumb idea for a huge number of reasons!

thechuckster
16-01-08, 01:06 PM
if it's the bitumenous stuff you could freeze it off - lots of found CO2 fire extinguishers? make wire tray and fill with dry-ice and attach to underside of car for 30 mins - bash off frozen sound deadener (and make dry-ice bombs in 1.25 litre pepsi bottles with left-over dry ice)?

edo
16-01-08, 01:09 PM
Ive seen that they do dry ice blasting....not sure how that goes with cars

Its not that thick blanket of crap that is on the inside of the floors in newer cars just that spray on crap...dont need to do the freeze thing on it to get it of

Motorsportlady
16-01-08, 01:12 PM
I borrowed a hand held bead blaster from a panel beater, was like a commercial vacuum cleaner only bigger. The end was like a vacuum cleaner brush attachment it propelled the beads out the centre and vacuumed the grit and paint chips around the outside....borrowed it for many weekends on end and eventually got the whole car done.

Another car I had commercially sand blasted then etch primed straight away...much quicker

HoonBoy
16-01-08, 01:28 PM
There is bugger all rust in the car as it is... but I haven't looked under the paint yet so it could be full of rust and bog.



Fixed ;)

edo
16-01-08, 01:30 PM
I think thats my go Lyndal...

Found these blokes:

http://www.yvblastclean.com.au/

arcane
16-01-08, 01:42 PM
How are cars which are galvanised from the factory done? I presume it's not 'hot dipping', but another method?

Ben Wilson
16-01-08, 02:51 PM
I'd be very wary of galanising a race car. It will be welded on at some point and welding gal is evil..

edo
16-01-08, 02:54 PM
Still havent changed my mind re galvanising..I never was going to do it 7 Im still not:)

BoganDAVE
16-01-08, 04:37 PM
Apparently soda blasting is likely to leave caustic deposits in places you cant get to just like dipping does. The suggested solution is anything from glass beads to plastic to walnut shells...

funny thing about soda is that it is water soluble, so as long as you wet the car down at some point all the soda will disappear.

edo
16-01-08, 05:09 PM
So its sort of like salt then?

rowdytoot
16-01-08, 05:35 PM
molasses does come in a wide range of viscosities, but no fucking way would I use it on a car, I've seen that shit cause corrosion on stainless steel over a period of time...

and it's a sticky cunt so just washing it would never remove all of it...

otherwise I offer you only this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molasses_Flood

Nathan Tinkler
16-01-08, 05:58 PM
Soda blast is perfect for you.

edo
16-01-08, 06:05 PM
What about all that crap they go on about in those links that I posted?

BoganDAVE
16-01-08, 06:53 PM
What about all that crap they go on about in those links that I posted?

I didn't read it.

Chip Foose uses it

/end thread v2.0

BoganDAVE
16-01-08, 07:01 PM
own a soda blasting business of 5 years and joined the board today to post comments and answers from my experience.

Soda blasting can only be done with soda blasting equipment for true performance. Sure, you can stick baking soda into a sand blaster or plastic media blaster but, to complete a full car body would be very expensive. Baking soda is a one pass media that cannot be re-used like sand or plastic media. If you cannot control the flow, the excessive waste will empty your pockets buying the media.

Baking soda does remove bondo but, will not remove rust.

It also must be rinsed thoroughly with water, yes I did say (water) in order to remove the soda completely from what you blasted. After rinsing you want to towel dry all areas to prevent thick baking soda residue runs. These runs can also be removed with a combination of vinegar and warm water if it has air dried.

After this process is done, soda leaves a invisible layer that acts as a buffer to the metal. If stored in a dry area with no moisture or humidity, the metal can go as long as 6 months before flash rust appears. That means no immediate need for primer.

Etching primer is a no no, only use epoxy primer to the bare metal first. All areas must be cleaned with wax & grease remover before primer as normal.

I have never had an unhappy customer or any problems with paint coming off the car.

To comment on the rusted areas, soda removes all surface rust down to the substrate. It will leave the areas a dark black color. What works best for me is a hand-held sandblasting gun filled with #5 sugar sand. Go over all black areas until the metal turns white. These areas also have to be primed immediately.

No need to remove or protect glass or chrome from the car either, baking soda is non abrasive and does not generate heat.

I hope this info has been some help to many concerns about this process.
.

Nathan Tinkler
16-01-08, 08:36 PM
http://www.sodablast.com.au/index.php

These guys are the ones I think. Not personal experience but I have read of their system and results enough over the years. I would have done a wet blast with limestone abrasive but it involves lots of problems compared to soda.

Go talk with them and you'll know whether or not it is for you.

They will blast, clean and either etch prime or epoxy prime the whole shebang. (2 pack epoxy is the go; but $$$) That will hold rust down till you can get the top coat on. Etch primer is much more porous and it will likely rust here and there (not badly but a pain in the arse). If you can get epoxy that will save you weight as for the internal/ underside you scuff it and paint it directly. Etch will need priming/ filling by the time you are up to paint.

Madhatr
16-01-08, 09:09 PM
if soda bothers you so much, start looking into plastics.

edo
17-01-08, 07:39 AM
Cheers Muz!

Mad, Its not that it bothers me, its just that I know nothing & wanted to check with someone less ignorant (most here & specifically Muz:))