Charade g200 rally car

[crunk81]

Finally, i get myself a rally car to start in. A bloody BARGAIN too! (well I think it is) I got a 93(i think) 1.3i 5 speed g200 charade( in good enough condition to make me think twice about ripping the guts out of it for a rally car )for the sum of 700 bucks.
What it would have needed for rego:
cv boot
rear brakes
chipped windscreen
oil leak on cam cover

So I got it home and it looked like this: See attachments

[crunk81]

Now this happened and it looks like this:

[stockymcstock]

sweet little cars dude, i bought one from a bloke on here (hold on i'll find the link, here you go: http://forums.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67223640&highlight=charade
and it's sweet, goes really well and handles great through the twisties

strongly considering putting a T25g and stealth intercooler setup on mine in teh future. would go with a thicker headgasket and probably higher-overlap cam change to drop the CR a little. i reckon it would be a sweet turbo car, just gotta be gentle with the pissweak gearboxes.

[crunk81]

Nice car, might have to go for one of those 1.6's next year.. Are they the same as the applause motor?

Anyone have opinions on whether I should take the windows out to save weight?

[Jason Broadhurst]

:)

[crunk81]

does:) mean yes I should take the windows out?

Actually now I am thinking I might take the rear windows out (2 rear doors) Remove the tailgate completely(maybe, or just replace window with perspex). Then chop the guts out of the rear doors. dunno about the front windows, if it's raining and/muddy I'll probably want them

Any other Ideas for weight reduction?

I have already gutted it:
rear seats
rear wiper+motor
rear washers
bits of wiring
fan
stereo
heater
other unnecessary bits of crap under the dash
all plastic trim bits
I reckon I've got close to 100 kgs out so far


I suppose next is that freakin sound deadener :mad:
I could probably hack some of the supports off the bonnet
might have a look under the bumper see if theres any metal i can get rid of there.

[fro]

Crunk, are you actually planning on rallying it at "Rallies", or just flogging it around the paddock at wherever?

Just hacking the shit out of it (and a bunch of other stuff you've mentioned above) will mean that it will be ineligible to be a proper rally car...

[Guido]

I was about the say the same thing fro.

[crunk81]

I will be rallying it, not paddock basher. Will be at club sprints to start, then hopefully do some 'proper rallies' next year. Surely I can remove the window at least. Which bits can I not do?

[Guido]

Umm, perhaps you should consult the cams manual... You need all glass and you may need to put some of that trim back in.

[fro]

You'll need all the glass for it to be a rally car, and no, you can't cut holes in the body work or inner guards, or gut the doors.

Look at these for a start:

Read Schedule A (don't worry about Schedule B necessarily). (http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/general/0603_Schedule_A_B_Q208.pdf)
Scheudle R (http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/road/0616_Schedule_R_Q208.pdf)
PRC Regs (http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/road/1107_Group_3C-PRC_Q208.pdf)

There's a bunch of rules in there that will keep you reading for a week. Keep in mind, basically, unless it specifically says that you can make that modification, then you aren't allowed to modify it.

This goes for stuff like Applause motors, wings, windows, intrusion bars, door skins and a bunch of other stuff...

[crunk81]

Ok well it's not too clear as to whether I need the rear door trims.. I obviously need the front ones. The heater was the worst thing I have removed... I need a windscreen demister... Dammit. I ended up taking it out with a hammer. That wont be going back in there.. Oh well I don't need it for this year anyway. Guess I'll sort it out next year. After reading I think my car will be too light:
Cars must meet the following scale of minimum weights as determined by the capacity of the engine:
2WD

up to 1000cc 700 kg
1000cc, and up to 1150cc 760 kg
1150cc, and up to 1400cc 790 kg
1400cc, and up to 1800cc 880 kg
1800cc, and up to 2000cc 960 kg
2000cc, and up to 2500cc 1030 kg
2500cc, and up to 3000cc 1090 kg
3000cc, and up to 3500cc 1180 kg
3500cc, and up to 4000cc1260 kg
4000cc, and up to 4500cc 1340 kg
4500cc, and up to 5100cc 1430 kg
over 5100cc 1520 kg

[AlexinPerth]

A lot of the sound deadener is still in my car - taking it out may reduce it's weight to under the minimum (I haven't checked).

Build yourself a decent bash plate from a sheet of thick alloy plate.

You also should protect the fuel & brake lines running under the car with something substantial.

You can put the applause 1.6 into it, but you need to build it as a detomaso - which means getting the bumpers, bonnet, rear wing etc. (actually, using a 4 door shell probably means that you can't do this. But you could put it in until you need to meet PRC regs).

Let me know if there is more info you need.

Alex.

[ALLMTR]

i can get you a 1.6 efi applause drivetrain with brand new clutch delivered to brisbane for $600 also comes with rear discs!

[crunk81]

Well I've got some cool cheap bits turning up, steering wheel, harnesses, bonnet scoop, pod filter, filter heat shield, It's like Xmas! still waiting on boss kit, and bonnet pins. Hopefully getting some rally tyres next week too. It got its exhaust yesterday, a free flowing 2inch. Should have the cage in and be back here by next week for me to put my cool bits in. will post some pics when stage 1 is done.

[Raynman]

Don't cut your bonnet unless you have a spare one... (no bonnet scoops unless it was a factory item)

Otherwise have fun (just remember, don't modify anything unless you can reverse it)

[crunk81]

Don't cut your bonnet unless you have a spare one... (no bonnet scoops unless it was a factory item)

Otherwise have fun (just remember, don't modify anything unless you can reverse it)

I'm only at club level rally for now so it shouldn't be a problem.

[rowdytoot]

It WILL be a problem in a rally @ club level I promise you..

[hotgemini]

rowdy: Little heads up here, this guy is a 'gunna'. Save your time.

[crunk81]

hotgemini save your time, I am "Gunna" . Yes you are right that I have asked a few q's here and haven't done anything because of time restraints and money issues....Wedding...Honeymoon etc. I have also tried to answer a few q's so I'm not one of those ones that doesn't contribute.
It is being done right now, pics will be posted shortly.

[rowdytoot]

rowdy: Little heads up here, this guy is a 'gunna'. Save your time.

fear not he's keeping us all highlty amused...

[Glen]

I'm only at club level rally for now so it shouldn't be a problem.


BWAHAHA......just found this thread

[Guido]

rowdy: Little heads up here, this guy is a 'gunna'.

So how's that Gemini project coming along? ;)

Clearly you guys haven't read some of his other threads. When you're the next Ari Vatanen addendum 76.34 of the Cams manual applies. We mere mortals do not have access to it. I was only fortunate enough to hear about it through my brother's wife's cousin's neighbour hailed as Walter Rohl MkII in his 2LSJZ1 powered Marina.

[crunk81]

Ok so, I got it all ready in time for the dirt sprints on the weekend. did the orientation lap, waited my turn, took off, (went ok for a standard 1.3) did about 1.5 kms and engine died. I DIDN'T EVEN GO THAT HARD! DIDN'T HIT THE REV LIMITER. Not sure if its a cracked piston or a bottom end. Leaning towards piston though. I can laugh about it now but was damn pissed when it happened. 1.6 here i come.. I got 6 weeks to get the new engine and install it for the next weekend.

[crunk81]

I'm such a 'gunna' heres the photo's...

Too bad I killed it so quick.

[AlexinPerth]

Cool. I'd be interested to know what went wrong. My 1.6 has been as tough as nails (but a bit lacklustre in the performance dept).

At the rally last weekend, I had it on the soft limiter for ages, and even hit the hard rev limit a couple of times on downhill sections.

Alex.

[crunk81]

Cool. I'd be interested to know what went wrong. My 1.6 has been as tough as nails (but a bit lacklustre in the performance dept).

At the rally last weekend, I had it on the soft limiter for ages, and even hit the hard rev limit a couple of times on downhill sections.

Alex.

I think there must have been something wrong from the get go, but there were no rattles or smoke to speak of before it happened. Could have been the reason i picked it up so cheap... It didn't get hot, it had plenty of oil, *shrugs* I dunno, not sure I could be bothered opening it up to find out.

Its pretty weird tho' I had one of these before that i used to sit at the lights bouncing off the rev limiter until they went green and that is still running at 300000 kms plus. I suppose it would be interesting to find out what gave up, will see how bored i get over the next couple of weekends...

[crunk81]

Ok so I have been a bit lazy.

But I now have the 1.6 applause motor in there, wit the extractors, and 2inch, and pod filter. Very happy with peak power, little low down power though, maybe an aftermarket ecu is needed. The gearing is so totally wrong!! 1st gear is ok i guess, second gear is too tall, and third is just stupid tall. Do basically the whole sprint in second gear, hitting 3rd once or twice for like 5 seconds.
Handling: UNDERSTEAR!! I ended up running 50 psi in the rear tyres and 18psi in the fronts, and it was still awful! Got a heavy rear sway bar on order, and looking at getting some heavier springs too. Then if thats not enough I will just run road tyres on the rear.

So a small to do list:
suspension
gearing
lsd/cig locker
probably a clutch while i'm in there
Start building a betterer engine. 1.3 pistons in a 1.6 for high CR and a cam. and an ECU

On another note the engine i blew up turns out to have detonated itself to death! the airflow meter wasnt connected properly. I havent pulled it apart but am fairly certain now that its a cracked piston.

[206perthcunt]

Handling: UNDERSTEAR!! I ended up running 50 psi in the rear tyres and 18psi in the fronts, and it was still awful! Got a heavy rear sway bar on order, and looking at getting some heavier springs too. Then if thats not enough I will just run road tyres on the rear.



If your running it on rally tyres and your getting crazy understeer, your driving it wrong.

[Jim]

what gearbox are you using? did you use the applause one?

[crunk81]

206perthboy: It understears badly on anything but power off, even using the handbrake does not get it to slide enough, if I power off it will overstear (a little bit) but as soon as I touch the throttle even a little bit just to keep momentum up...... Yes I know its a front wheel drive and thats what they do, but this one does it way too much. I did get second fastest time of the day outright as it is now (there werent any 4wd's). I'm just gonna set it up to suit 'my driving'

Jim: At the moment it is the standard charade one, I'm gonna look at finding a better diff ratio, hopefully with an LSD, if not i'll weld it up. I guess in hindsight it is the final drive gearing that is my main issue, 100kmh in 2nd in a 1.6l 4 cylinder. AFAIK there were diesel charades running around with 5.1:1 diffs in them, tho they're rare as rockinghorse shit.

[Jim]

seems odd that the charade box would be so tall. the applause one was pretty well matched to the 1.6 I thought.

[206perthcunt]

206perthboy: It understears badly on anything but power off, even using the handbrake does not get it to slide enough, if I power off it will overstear (a little bit) but as soon as I touch the throttle even a little bit just to keep momentum up...... Yes I know its a front wheel drive and thats what they do, but this one does it way too much. I did get second fastest time of the day outright as it is now (there werent any 4wd's). I'm just gonna set it up to suit 'my driving' .



I'd be a bit more gentle on the throttle then, this is coming from my own expierance, driving a gay fwd car on gravel up at the farm, 5-10km of windy gravel roads, but with normal road tyres. My car understeers if your not careful, lining it up properly and being gentle on the throttle, it becomes very easy not to understeer, and to get loads of exit oversteer. I'd go out and try new styles of cornering/throttle techniques, and see what else you can get out of the car.

[crunk81]

I'd be a bit more gentle on the throttle then, this is coming from my own expierance, driving a gay fwd car on gravel up at the farm, 5-10km of windy gravel roads, but with normal road tyres. My car understeers if your not careful, lining it up properly and being gentle on the throttle, it becomes very easy not to understeer, and to get loads of exit oversteer. I'd go out and try new styles of cornering/throttle techniques, and see what else you can get out of the car.

I plan to do just that! I am heading out to either Mums or a mates place to get some "testing" done. I will have the sway bar in by then.

[crunk81]

Update:

Went to mates place for practice session. Clutch went! and water pissed out the water pump! Back to the workshop... new water pump and new Xtreme Heavy duty clutch.. good clutch now the &%#^% thing is in!!! first one they sent was installed and turned out to be wrong one(6hrs labour charge to me) second one came and installed part way to make sure it works and guess what.. SAME *&^%*&^ PROBLEM!! Take it back out again. talk to manufacturer find out that the flywheel needs a step machined into it for clutch to work. THANX FOR PUTTING THAT IN THE NON EXISTANT INSTRUCTION MANUAL!!!

Anyway car running again clutch working great.

Go to dirt sprint 1st lap goes ok missed a bit, running on 3.5 cylinders :( Mess around with plugs and leads and injectors... 2nd lap, overheats steam coming out, water gone, (3.5 cylinders again) tiny hole in head gasket. "SHIT FUCK PISS PORRIDGE *&^&$&* Screw it I'm gonna drive it till it dies" few more laps on the saturday (practice/introduction day)

Race day sunday:

6 laps each direction=12 laps,
First 6:
Overheating EVERY lap, 20 mins cool down between laps leaving fans running (2x V8 Thermos) new coolant and out again. Constantly running reasonable times, about 5th-6th outright. (results table posted below)

Second six:
second lap in notice drop in power near end of lap, and smoke out exhaust at same time, which then clears and takes off again on 3.5 cylinders. Most people thought I'd pack it up... HELL NO IT AINT DEAD YET!! 4 more laps slowly getting worse the whole time, taking it a bit easier to try and make the finish (note times). Last lap huge plume of smoke near end of lap, still manage a 2 jumps on the straight (which some others slow down to avoid) and I FINISH!! I ACTUALLY MAKE IT THRU AN ENTIRE RACE!! WOOHOO!!
:rotflol::D

[crunk81]

What a weekend and after all that I still manage 2nd in class and 4th outright:eek:

EDIT: I'm Duncan