View Full Version : LB Lancer Track Car
This is my newest little project car that I have been working on. I want to get into some form of racing so needed a cheap car to build up. I have always liked the idea of a early RWD lancer or Galant with a 4G63. I came across a 1978 LB Lancer with a blown head that was going cheap, and it happens to work out that my Grandfather was the original owner many owners ago.
I will build it up inline with the IPRA rule book so I once I get it pretty well sorted I can start racing it.
Like said I want to run a VR4 engine or later IV+ evo motor if the budget stretches nd probably bolt it up to a supra box and hilux diff.
Here are some pictures of where I am up to, I should have it painted pretty soon but am after some ideas on the paint scheme. I have some Ford rapid yellow off the XR8 falcooons (see colour painted in boot pic it didn't try so fluro) I was thinking of painting the bonnet black or putting some GT stripes on it to break up all the yellow any other idea?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P4280169.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P4280176.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P4280170.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P4280177.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/1BadgeHolesWeldedNodents.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/2PassengersSideFinished2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/3PassengersSideFInished.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/4PassengersSill.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/5DriversSillFinished.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/6DriversWheelArch.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/7PassengersWheelArchFixed.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/8Passengersz.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/9DriversSideFinished.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/10DriversSideFinished2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/12EngineBayCleaned.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P5310208.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P5310210.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P5310213.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P5310212.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6150235.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6150238.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6150240.jpg
BoganDAVE
05-07-08, 07:38 AM
awesome jackstand on wheel!
Jason Broadhurst
05-07-08, 08:05 AM
glossy primer finish is the new matt
nice job. dont use a hilux diff, plenty of better options.
I love the LB sedans! I rallied one for many years and have had bloody heaps of them. somethings to be aware of:
The left hand front guards and LB bonnets are rare as rocking horse shit, look after them the chances of finding more are slim.
the front chassis rail between radius rod mount and sub frame buckle and kink under hard braking or minor parking lot biffs and it fucks up the camber and alignment, even on stock cars. Check that the rail doesnt have a kink in it and if it does get it straightened up.
Fit a 3 or 4mm flat plate under the sub frame and radius rod brackets to stiffen it. You dont want to make it too rigid as it's a crush point for crashes.
The other option is to use a galant crossmember and make adjustable lower control arms, as the galant uses A arms instead of radius rods.
HoonBoy
05-07-08, 01:25 PM
I've got a few guards for each side, they are slightly different between LA1, LA2 and LB but can be interchanged without too much hassle. Bonnets are damn hard to find, the rust out the frame at the front and by the time it can be seen it is too late.
That manual tunnel is tiny compared to my auto shell!
no1200 - What other diff options do you think I should look into? I was going for a hilux out of a 76ish model as it is only meant to be 30mm wider then the stock one and good gear centres are meant to be easy to find.
Jim - Do you have any pictures of the area you are talking about??
HoonBoy
08-07-08, 10:10 PM
Look at the chassis rails forward of the crossmember. there is not much holding them straight.
I know guys here are using like rx4 diffs or something, aparently heaps lighter then hilux etc
charged
09-07-08, 11:50 PM
Hilux diff is way to heavy, nephew runs a RX4 diff in his 2l 3sgte turbo IP car and hasnt had any problems. Better range of ratios also are available.
http://www.iprasa.mx.com.au/cars/15%20c_sharp.htm
Hilux/Hiace diffs are very heavy, but you can get good ratios for them if you look hard enough and know how to read the toyota diff codes BUT they are more suited to high revving rotaries than piston motors (ie you can get well into the 4.xx and 5.xx ratio range, but usually only as two pinion open centres and I've yet to come across a decent non air locker LSD centre - the factory G series LSDs are rubbish)
RX-4 = you would want to get a 13b RX-4 diff as the 12A one isn't that tough, but what about a SIII RX-7 diff? disc brakes, easy to come by centres, LSD's available, pretty cheap and they are a 4x114.3 stud pattern,
I've got a hiace in my Mazda 1300. It's tough, its relatively easy to find bits for, the handbrake mechanism behind the drums is a prick of a thing though and it is heavy, they aren't as strong as a Ford 9 inch though, but they are lighter. Iht would probably have been better to get a Borg Warner diff and fit it with an LSD out of a falcon or something like that.
Nice project though!
whatever diff you use will have to be narrowed to fit the lancer unless you're going to run 44gal drum flares.
^ japanese 70's touring car flares FTMFW.
sv_i I hadn't considered the SIII rx7 diff, does it run 28 spline axles like the RX4 diff? The 4x114.3 PCD and disc is good I assume the RX4 would be a 4x110 I haven't figured out what ratio I want to run in the diff I will have to find out what top speeds the guys are getting at mallala and work back from there, charged are you able to help me out on that one?
I just came across a set of flares on the net the rally guys ran on the lancers they only add 50mm each side, but that is all you are allowed to add anyway. I will measure up the current diff and see how close these diffs match up.
I finished painting the car tonight, the bugs love the yellow paint I was constantly picking them out each layer. I was considering rubbing the car back and buffing it up but it will probably get scratched and dented up.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P7140241.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P7140242.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P7140244.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P7140245.jpg
The Quality Inspector checking the finish out
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P7140246.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P7140252.jpg
HoonBoy
14-07-08, 10:22 PM
Looking good!
Why did you leave the back window in when everything else was stripped out?
Looking good!
Why did you leave the back window in when everything else was stripped out?
I window seals have gone all hard we had to take the front screen out for the roll cage and busted the glass doing it, so we decided to leave the rear one in. I wish I did take it out as it is always going to be messy masking around the rubber. Hopefully I can find another front screen easily.
HoonBoy
14-07-08, 10:39 PM
The fronts always break, the backs don't, I hard to buy a new front but still have two spare rears. New glass is easy to get, even windscreens obrien can get it for you. Rubbers were hard to find but are now available from Phil's Rotary's ebay store.
there were two types of factory flares, the LA WRC ones which had a square lip and the LA and LB GSR Ralliart ones which were a very round shape. Lots of guys back in the day would run Group C LH Torana flares and man they looked tough.
Galant wagon diff was an inch or so wider than stock lancer and was about as wide as you could go with the LB flares.
CAMS have homologation papers on request if you really wanted this detail but IMHO go the LH torana flares.
Re: SIII RX-7 diff - sorry, no idea. But first gen centres are interchangeable, I'm not sure if it is only a particular series though. And yes, RX-4 is 4x110 and the 4x110 PCD blows chunks.
Ausrotary diff thread might help though?
http://ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2695
The rally car ran a factory 4.6 and on the circuit it was way too low. around 4.3 seemed to be the best compromise between legs and acceleration, though with the motor and power you're going to have you may end up back to the stock 3.8 area.
MrBishi
16-07-08, 01:01 PM
Many years ago I'm fairly sure that I measured up a 4x4 Nissan 720 rear diff as being a pretty good fit. The centres were interchangable with S12 gazelle and S3 bluebird, but I think LSD centres were few and far between.
Otherwise I think that the very early 4x4 hiluxes were also a close fit.
I ended up putting the venerable 9" in to my LA.
^ sorry for the O/T, but out of interest, how much was your 9inch conversion MrBishi? I should have gone that way for my Mazda in hindsight.
MrBishi
17-07-08, 12:40 PM
@sv_i - Hard to quantify as I did the work myself over a fairly long period of time. I think it ended up oweing me about $3K, but bear in mind that I went a bit silly with overkill items - 31spline billet axles, true track centre, new gears, billet pinion support etc.
The actual conversion to the housing is simple enough - shortened axle tubes and simple leaf spring hangers. The expensive parts are the axles.
I have finished off most of the paintwork now and got it back together. We played around with some slicks and rims today, i put 205x60x15 up front and 225x60x15 at the back. The 60 profile definently looks too tall I will have to go down to a 50 series or looking into 14" mags.
I am about to order in a set of flares to help fit the tyres and trying to find different front splitters but not having much luck.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/Sirlancer.jpg
HoonBoy
02-08-08, 09:58 PM
That's looking good. I would say the tyres are too big, 205/60x15 rubbed on the front of the guards when turning the wheels when my car was stock. The same size rally tyres rub on the rear now that it is lowered.
That's looking good. I would say the tyres are too big, 205/60x15 rubbed on the front of the guards when turning the wheels when my car was stock. The same size rally tyres rub on the rear now that it is lowered.
I am going to have to run flares and chop the guards to make them clear. I was suprised the front fitted it just cleared the stock strut. Those wheels are 25mm offset I have seen a 0 offset pair that I like they will definety need the flares.
I am not looking forward to price of the 50 series semis over the 60 series.
HoonBoy
02-08-08, 10:48 PM
Thought you would of done the chopping before the paint?? Make sure you do the castor before the chopping, I can't go as far as the suspension guy wanted without custom radius rods and chopping the guards.
Thought you would of done the chopping before the paint?? Make sure you do the castor before the chopping, I can't go as far as the suspension guy wanted without custom radius rods and chopping the guards.
Yeah I should have cut them first, but wasn't sure if I was going to need the flares.
Any hints on some good starting settings for the suspension?? I assume some more positive caster and lots of neg camber? I have my GH scorpian (I liked your swap faq btw) struts coming on Monday, I also asked them to include the lower control arms, I am hoping they are longer to give me some more track and negative camber. I will have to find some longer radius rods to keep the castor in place maybe I can make use of the scorpian ones aswell.
HoonBoy
02-08-08, 11:30 PM
Sigma/Scorpion control arms should be longer and bolt in, I will try it one day. I was going for -3.5-4.0° camber and 5° caster but only got to -2° camber and 3° caster with my current setup.
karl_2ltGC
05-10-08, 08:46 PM
For the diff, consider a scorpian diff(not a GE scorp they have same diff as galants)... i have a 3.3 in my galant thats welded and its proven to be adequate(disc brake too), they are a bit wider, but its not by that much, i just pumped my gaurds rather dogily to fit 13x7's.
Edit - to use the scorp diff, you just weld on some mounts for the leafs and jobs done, tailshaft lines up fine, though you will have to bugger about for handbrake cable, but race cars dont need handbrakes(neither does my galannt :) )
For the front end, i run GH green leg front struts(the brake caliper mount bolts to the strut so any future upgrade will be made easier), they have been shortened with coilovers and run camira strut inserts, ive also got custom strut tops to adjust caster/camber.
If your going run stock brakes at the front, a set of bendix ultimates~$100, a couple of calliper reco kits~$15each and new rotors~$40each will work sort of ok, just depends how much mumbo you have.
For the front end setup i run 2.5 degrees neg camber on the street and 4.5 on the track. Cant remember the castor settings, been ages since work was done.
damn this is looking good (even if it is yellow!)
For circuit you won't need an enormously strong diff as it's not under the shock loads of a drag car. But LSD is a must. I'd avoid a locked diff in a small car like the lancer, they are twitchy enough as it is.
Whatever diff you use you will have to cut down anyway. The lancer is a damn narrow car. Have a look at what the datto 1200 guys use.
charged
10-10-08, 10:00 AM
Theres lancer coupe in the trading post this week, its a logged as 3j
Price:$ 6,000.00
IMPROVED PRODUCTION/DRAG/DRIFT, LANCER,, 77 Hatch, Evo 6 Motor, Supra Box, Mazda RX7 Brakes ect, with Cams Log books, requires some assembly, $6000 or near offer (08)83845344, After Hours (08) 82706728 LONSDALE Item location:SA, AustraliaFirst published:7 October 2008Source:Trading Post - Adelaide
http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automotive/Race-Rally-Cars/AdNumber=8258204?BackToResult=true
When will your car be ready mate, the more car in IP the better:)
That'd be an LB hatch. Nice cars but didn't handle as well as the sedans.
I just called up about that lancer, I was considering buying it and converting it all of the running gear over to my car. It has a welded nissan 720 diff the head is off the motor and the ecu has been sold. It used to be eddie wreckers old car I might go check it out it did use to run 1:19's around Malalla when running a vr4 motor.
I think I will keep going on mine there are too many things that I would want to change and if I dont use the hatch body and roll cage it kind of makes it not worth while. I have been ringing around for roll cages today they arn't so cheap :(
Here is the latest picture, I have installed the front flares so now I should be able to fit some longer sigma lower control arms for more track and run 205x50x15's (the picture shows 205x60x15's)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA100326.jpg
Hopefully once I add the flares to the back I get away with dropping in a RX7 gen1 diff without having to chop it down.
I picked up a W58 box last week and should have the adaptor bell housing next week.
I wanted it on the road by the end of the year but with christmas expenses and house building expenses it is make it hard.
theres a LB at u-pull-it lonsdale fyi
TonyL - cheers for that I will have to check it out I still need a half decent front bar.
I had a few days of work so got stuck into installing the new seat. I had to unpick the factory front seat crossbrace as it had the new seat sitting too high. It now sits nice and low and far back, hopefully not to far back for the roll cage.
I also have fitted up to dellow bellhousing adaptor so I can bolt up my W58 to a VR4 narrow block. I need to find a 2lt sigma fly wheel to finish of the conversion but not having much luck finding an aftermarket lightweight one and the stock ones are cast.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA240334.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA240335.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA240336.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA240337.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA200333.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA200332.jpg
HoonBoy
25-10-08, 06:15 PM
Seat location should be fine for the cage, my main hoop is just in front of the rear seat brace and it looks like you will have clearance there.
I think cheaterparts on sigma-galant makes flywheels.
Fletch has made an appreance on this forum.
He makes all sorts of stuff for Galant's/Mitsi's.
HoonBoy
25-10-08, 10:30 PM
He also has a habit of not answering enquiries :(
karl_2ltGC
26-10-08, 08:59 AM
Seat location should be fine for the cage, my main hoop is just in front of the rear seat brace and it looks like you will have clearance there.
I think cheaterparts on sigma-galant makes flywheels.
He does, il let him know about this thread.
cheaterparts is also on the IPRA forum too.
I picked up a series3 rx7 diff with brakes and control arms. We dummy fitted it to the car today and it is definetly much wider then the stock lancer diff, roughly 14cm overall Even with my flares the 205's are hanging out way to far. I could go wider flares to make full use of the 100mm maximum allowed gain in body width but it would still be close, current flares only add 40mm total. I will look into getting the diff chopped down between 3-4inches either side, I would rather go to short and then use spacers then still be to wide.
The wheels in the photos have a +26mm offset the ones I want to use are 0 offset.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA310338.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA310340.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PA310339.jpg
karl_2ltGC
31-10-08, 11:01 PM
Looks good, suck about the wheel in the gaurds rule.
HoonBoy
31-10-08, 11:28 PM
That's a fair bit wider then what I had guessed / looked up on the interweb. Will it stil be a cost effective diff by the time you add an LSD, decent ratio and have it narrowed?
That's a fair bit wider then what I had guessed / looked up on the interweb. Will it stil be a cost effective diff by the time you add an LSD, decent ratio and have it narrowed?
I think it will still work out ok with costs, but I am learning quickly not to count the money :)
It should be good diff LSD's are cheap and heaps of ratios; it is a lot lighter than a hilux etc, just a matter of how the 26 spline axles hold up. A RX4 would have been better as it is narrower and has 28 spline axles but LSD's are harder to find and you would have to change the stud pattern. I will get some quotes next week on what it will cost to shorten, mates who have had it done don't seem to think it is that pricey.
I am still trying to work out what to use in the way of a floater setup for the leafs, and if I am even allowed to use them in IPRA.
I got it booked in for its cage at Walker chassis, full 6-point weld in with extra brace in main hoop and roof as well as side intrusion bars and harness bar. The soonest I could get in was the last weekend of January
HoonBoy
01-11-08, 01:53 PM
According to the McDonald's bros site, shortening costs are:
Housing - $300
Axles - $175 (each)
Bolt pattern change $250
I don't know if I would be happy with shortened standard axles unless they were heat treated properly.
They also do some floater kits for $195 http://www.mcdonaldbrosracing.com.au/leaffloaters.html but I don't think they would be IPRA legal
Live axles: The original configuration and type of all suspension pivot points on the assembly must be retained, save for lateral location as per article 9.10. The rear axle assembly is otherwise free. Fully floating hubs are encouraged.
That's a long wait for the cage! I gues it gives you time to sort out other bits :)
da9jeff
01-11-08, 05:58 PM
hey mate, can i ask what you got quoted for the cage? walker seem to be the shizzle, but expensive?
Hoonboy, I don't like the look of the McDonald floaters, there are some better designs out there.
Cage is $2200, he does a fixed price it doesn't matter what car you have. There are others out there that could have got it done before christmas but they give ballpark figures and charge by the hour.
what does 2200 include, ring RMF fabrication he makes some pimp ass cages.
$2200 is a great price if it's a decent cage. Mine was done by Pete Cleary at ProRacing at mates rates and still cost me 3k...
what does 2200 include, ring RMF fabrication he makes some pimp ass cages.
2200 is a full weldin 6 point cage with bracing to the a and b pillars, side intrusion bars and extra diagonal brace through across the roof and in the drivers main hoop as well as a harness bar. I will RMF see how busy they are and how much, I would really like it done before christmas.
da9jeff
02-11-08, 07:01 PM
$2200 fixed is alot better than i expexted, and the walker cages ive seen seem to be pretty good. You reckon they would be able to cut a dashboard out where the a-pillar bars go?
very pleased to see $2200 :)
cheers,
jeff
I am sending it to them without the dash in so they can run the front legs along the a-pillars, I will trim it to get it back in.
thats the best way to do it none of this gay arsed dogleg shit in the front bars that will weaken it.
da9jeff
03-11-08, 04:13 PM
without extra gussets/bars i dont think its even legal to have a dogleg in the a pilar bar.
Do they paint the cage? I can imagine an extremely fustrating paint session trying to mask the car and trying not to miss any of the barwork if i were to do it myself :)
HoonBoy
03-11-08, 04:55 PM
por15 self levelling brush on paint for the win! Just don't do it by dodgy light like I did, you will miss spots that are bloody obvious in sunlight :(
HoonBoy
22-11-08, 05:13 PM
Any updates on the diff?
Any updates on the diff?
I haven't done anymore. I am going to go some wider flares at the rear take up the maximum allowed, will try some torana flares. I am also considering trying a more positive offset wheel, FWD style to avoid cutting the diff down, but it won't look right without any dish.
I am also checking out a diff from a 1981 mazda 929 wagon. It the wrong style PCD for the wheel studs but it is free, we have no idea what axles they ran if it is decent I will cut it to suit the lancer and sell off the RX7 diff.
HoonBoy
24-11-08, 09:26 PM
Sounds like a weird option! What about a hilux diff with stud pattern change? Adds about 3cm per side compared to the stock diff.
Strange option but it is free, I hoping it will have 28spline axles like the rx4 if not I won't bother.
What year hilux is that? it might be too heavy for such a little car.
HoonBoy
25-11-08, 10:23 AM
Not sure of the year, think it was a RN40?? I don't know how much heavier it would be over the standard diff, but any decent option is going to be heavier.
charged
25-11-08, 12:55 PM
Strange option but it is free, I hoping it will have 28spline axles like the rx4 if not I won't bother.
What year hilux is that? it might be too heavy for such a little car.
Pretty sure the 929 is the 28 spline just like a RX4, fuckin hilux is too big, also the spectron diff is the same if IIRC
Adam Allan mentioned something about a spectron diff, it is meant to be narrow maybe no chopping needed.
I will go to the wreckers and see if I can find one to measure up.
HoonBoy
14-01-09, 12:50 PM
Any updates on the diff or wider flares?
No updates on the diff yet.
But i am picking up the vr4 donk this week and cage is going in on 31st :)
HoonBoy
19-01-09, 07:16 PM
Progress, cool :)
Reason,
Something also to consider with decision on a diff is the sprung Vs unsprung weight with handling characteristics.
Cars looking very nice.
Cheers,
Mick
Just got the car back from Walker Chassis today they did all roll cage work, and I am very happy with their work and turn around, highly recommended.
It is a 6point weld in with harness bar, rear diagonal brace and diagonal in the roof plus side intrusion bars. You can see in the picture that they also put small diagonal gussets from the main hoop to the b-pillar and top bar. I wanted it braced to the b-pillar but because the main hoop is set so far back they had to do it like this, it worked out well. I might have to squeeze some padding over the diagonal on the drivers side as I am sure I will hit it with my helmet over bumps.
The front legs are nice and tight against the a-pillar and dont obstruct your view or the pedals.
I am still waiting for my engine to be pulled out of the front cut a the wreckers then I can get stuck into the fun stuff.
Here are the pics.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060347.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060348.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060349.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060350.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060351.jpg
looks good! what diameter is that? looks pretty thin!
dude...yellow... :(
HoonBoy
06-02-09, 12:07 PM
Nice! No harness bar?
The yellow looks good in the flesh. The price was right also!
I wanted it green but was told it was unlucky on race car then saw 20L of the yellow up on ebay for $100.
Main hoop OD is 45mm 2.6mm wall thickness, all other are 38.1mm OD 2.6mm wall thickness.
Hoonboy, the harness bar runs between the two lower back legs, the camera angles aren't that good but the harness can get through and at the right angle.
HoonBoy
06-02-09, 12:28 PM
I wanted it green but was told it was unlucky on race car ...
You suck :(
Hoonboy, the harness bar runs between the two lower back legs, the camera angles aren't that good but the harness can get through and at the right angle.
OK, looks a little low, I know mine is about 10cm higher then that and I would of preferred higher but had to compromise due to the co-drivers lack of height. As long as it's not more then 45 degress you will technically be fine anyway.
fair enuff. Yellow does look better on racecars than road cars, and green vice versa (sorry hoonboy lol) but a fresh coat of Spitfire Orange looked fantastic on my rally car.
da9jeff
06-02-09, 12:36 PM
[jeffs dad]the cams "legal"harness bar is already fitted in the cage...horizontal bar between the rear wheel arches!..as long as it isn't lower than 40 degrees from shoulder horizontal.also [in sa]i like to see 2 "stops "
1each side of harness to stop it sliding sideways eg.2..large cable ties or[neater]a "u"shaped metal bracket over each belt,especially if there is any extreme length between seat& rear mntg. point.10 degrees is ideal but still allowed 40 deg.for harness angle.
charged
06-02-09, 02:43 PM
You obviously know ashley I recognize the trailer, I towed my car to PI with it, it was fuckin awesome.. I havent seen Ash for a while how is the sigma going... ready to hit the track
Cheers
John
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/toyocharged/ashestrailer.jpg
da9jeff
06-02-09, 03:11 PM
Here are the pics.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060347.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060348.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060349.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060350.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060351.jpg
looks great - how much extra did you pay for the additional bars?
where the bars meet the top of the hoop can u take a pic how close they are? and also feel if they welded all around, im getting heaps picky these days lol.
John, goood work picking the trailer I used to work with Ash at ZF he convinced me it would be good idea to build the car. I think all of the body work is done on his sigma just needs some paint and he has a different box to go aswell.
The trailer does tow well apart from my lack of brake controller, I plan to get a trailer but something smaller my car is just wide enough for Ash's.
Da9jeff - He did charge me any extra for the braces, even kept the same price that he quoted me 3months ago when I booked it in.
Playa - the weld goes all the way around even up around near the roof where the would only be 10mm clearance. Here are the photos of the bars meeting on the main hoop at the drivers side, first one is driver side of the hoop the second is through the rear door opening. If you want to come around and check it let me know.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060358.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060359.jpg
that dude must be pro++, i know he does do it for a living but still thats close where the A piller bars go
is there holes in your floor where he dropped the cage down?
No holes in the floor there is steel plate welded to the floor the tube welded to that. For the main hoop feet he boxed up a section, below picture is of the passenger side.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060360.jpg
Hoonboy or Jim do you anything about the Lancer a175 diff? I might be able to get one with a 3.9ratio and mech LSD but I don't know anything about them and how much power they can take.
I will go and measure it up tomorrow.
yea the box is how he got to the top, tack it all up then drop it down fully weld it then put the box in. smart
HoonBoy
06-02-09, 11:07 PM
Hoonboy or Jim do you anything about the Lancer a175 diff? I might be able to get one with a 3.9ratio and mech LSD but I don't know anything about them and how much power they can take.
I will go and measure it up tomorrow.
Interchangable with the stock diff... I bent an axle with the old motor and only 106bhp at the wheels..
Gammaboy
06-02-09, 11:50 PM
Just got the car back from Walker Chassis today they did all roll cage work, and I am very happy with their work and turn around, highly recommended.
It is a 6point weld in with harness bar, rear diagonal brace and diagonal in the roof plus side intrusion bars. You can see in the picture that they also put small diagonal gussets from the main hoop to the b-pillar and top bar. I wanted it braced to the b-pillar but because the main hoop is set so far back they had to do it like this, it worked out well. I might have to squeeze some padding over the diagonal on the drivers side as I am sure I will hit it with my helmet over bumps
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2060348.jpg
Is there a good reason that brace next to your head doesn't continue back to the rear feet?
Is there a good reason that brace next to your head doesn't continue back to the rear feet?
its how they always do it, seen same thing in the cams manual
also where is your taxi bar for harness mounts?
Gammaboy
07-02-09, 12:08 AM
its how they always do it, seen same thing in the cams manual
Doesn't mean its the right way... Terminating a diagonal in the middle of a span is bad practice - doesn't transfer the loads anywhere except into bending the span.
that tube is larger then usually used, have a look at every WRC car, they use it to strengthen that junction, usually around 20 cm long from what i seen.
I mean the door bars terminate in the middle of the hoop too....
HoonBoy
07-02-09, 08:52 AM
also where is your taxi bar for harness mounts?
See the posts above, he is using the bar going between the rear legs.
Gammaboy
07-02-09, 09:27 AM
that tube is larger then usually used, have a look at every WRC car, they use it to strengthen that junction, usually around 20 cm long from what i seen.
I mean the door bars terminate in the middle of the hoop too....
There's a difference between a gusset and running a diagonal that joins two unsupported mid spans.
Have a good look at pics of DTM cages, WRC cages and V8 supers. apart from some short corner gusseting, you'll find no unsupported load paths.
Hoonboy or Jim do you anything about the Lancer a175 diff? I might be able to get one with a 3.9ratio and mech LSD but I don't know anything about them and how much power they can take.
I will go and measure it up tomorrow.
I can't remember diff codes sorry, but if hoonboy recons they swap in and it's the type I remember then it's a clutch type LSD. Stock they are a bit soft but you can shim them up pretty easy and they are quite effective.
I don't know how hoonboy keeps breaking things coz all the people I knew with 2.6 astrons and supercharged saturns used to explode bellhousings and corkscrew tailshafts before they ever broke a diff. In my 10 years of owning the rally car the diff and gearbox never failed ever, though the LSD was pretty much shagged by then.
I picked up the engine on the weekend and spent all morning at Upullit checking out different engine mounts.
I was going to pull some RWD mounts out of a L300 van that runs a SOHC 4G63 but then saw a mitsubishi ute that also had a SOHC 4G63 engine, the mounts looked the same and when I measured up the block it was a narrow block motor. After a lot of stuffing around and lack of engine crane I got the mounts out and home, every thing bolted straight up. Here are some pics of the engine in the bay.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2230362.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2230363.jpg
The Ute mounts, I don't think the rubber section will last too long so I am looking around for stiffer mounts or I will just weld them up solid.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2230364.jpg
Clearance to the firewall for the CAS and rear water plumbing are tight but better then expected. In this picture there is 60mm clearance between the flange of the thermostat housing and the firewall and the engine is leaning back. I will massage this area and neaten it all up for more clearance once the engine is back out.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2230365.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2230366.jpg
I am going to start fitting up the gearbox now I did try to drop it in connected to the engine but it was to tight, the box with bell housing is almost as long as the engine bay opening.
I put the spirit level on the engine and it is leaning rearwards, I have heard that it is good to have it leaning slightly rearwards and not flat does anyone have tips of how much a lean is good?
i would be checking your angles on your tail shaft, if your diff is up say 2 degrees, the gearbox out put shaft should be pointing down say 2 degrees etc.
I have played around with the gearbox height and matched it as close as I could to the diff, there was a lot of massaging that had to be done to the tunnel to make it fit. I am going to put a hole/grommet in the side of the tunnel so I can get easy access to the oil filler bolt as it quite tight around there.
I just finished making up the crossmember, it came in 1kg under the factory one and has lots of strength.
One issue that came up was the shifter position it is too far forwards a good two inches infront of the stock position I am struggling to reach 1st and 2nd when strapped in, it will be worse when I install a short shifter. So I am on the hunt for another W58 but with a more rearwards shifter position.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2260368.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2260369.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2260370.jpg
karl_2ltGC
26-02-09, 09:23 PM
I know you can get rid of the rear water housing and modify some action to get a water outlet at the front of the motor.
Check out http://forums.austarion.com/ i think you might find some stuff on their. My engineer was doing one a little while back, wasnt too difficult (just a bit of alloy cut an weld), saves space at back of motor and you can run regular water lines.
If your really want build a nice dog leg shifter to get you out of trouble for now?
da9jeff
26-02-09, 09:56 PM
i was going to suggest the same thing damit!
anyway, saves getting another box.
So ETA to mallala skids?
HoonBoy
27-02-09, 08:50 AM
A short shifter will make it better, you won't have to move it as far forwards to be in gear. With a bend in the shifter, it should be fine.
What diff do you line it up against? I'm thinking I will need to get the Hilux diff it place in mine before I do the final alignment, I can't see the stock diff having the output in the same spot.
I just matched it up against the stocker diff, when I get the diff converted I will get them to set it up the same as this one. If it doesn't quite match the diff I can always move the box up or down with shims, there is still a lot of clearance to go up.
I picked up another box today out of a 1g-gte supra the shifter hole is about 2.5" more rearwards, it is in a much nicer position now and should be even nicer once the short shifter goes in. The pic shows the new position the black mark on the tunnel about 2.5" infront of the shifter is where the other one used to line up. I might still give the idea of the dog leg shifter a go, now I have the spare shifter laying around to cut up.
Anyone looking for a W58 with an 18" shifter position let me know I now have one spare.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P2270371.jpg
I have stripped the car down to the shell tonight and finished off the seam welding in the cabin, I am looking forwards to having the interior all painted but not looking forwards to having to do it.
I am hoping to have the car out on the track mid this year, it all depends on funds and what bargins I can pick up.
I know you can get rid of the rear water housing and modify some action to get a water outlet at the front of the motor.
Check out http://forums.austarion.com/ i think you might find some stuff on their. My engineer was doing one a little while back, wasnt too difficult (just a bit of alloy cut an weld), saves space at back of motor and you can run regular water lines.
Karl I have looked into this but was worried about the water flow issues at the back of the head.
karl_2ltGC
28-02-09, 07:40 PM
I'd be very suprised if it was an issue.
Can i request some pics of seam welding in the cabin, I'm interested in were the appropriate areas for seam welding are.
so glad that my crossmember isn't looking dodgy as now :) thanks for the crossmember pics.
I'd be very suprised if it was an issue.
Can i request some pics of seam welding in the cabin, I'm interested in were the appropriate areas for seam welding are.
I will post some pictures up this week, it was the first time I have done it so I have endend up doing it to every seam in the car.
karl_2ltGC
04-03-09, 10:18 AM
Whats the deal with the gearbox in this thing? Hows thats all bolt in and stuff. my galant will probably need something better than the jap sigma 5spd after it gets its next tune.
Karl here are some pictures of the seam welding, like I said earlier I am not a pro. The gearbox bolted straight up using a bellhousing from Dellow then you need to run the 2lt jap flywheel and pressure plate then find a clutch disc the same size but with the supra spline.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P3040394.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P3040393.jpg
I also finished painting the cabin tonight what a pain in the arse that was I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. It is definetly yellow as well as everything else in the shed that I forgot to cover.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P3100434.jpg
HoonBoy
18-06-09, 08:46 PM
Updates?
Hoonboy, I haven't done a lot we are in the process of putting a new kitchen in so that has taken up a lot of time.
In saying that the engine is nearly ready to go back in, some of the RWD conversion issues have been resolved
- Water pump done, came off an L200 ute but using the vr4 pump flange pushed on nearly all the way this puts it inline with the front section of the harmonic balancer. I had to trim a fair bit of meat off the pump housing to clear the DOHC timing gear (Pump suits SOHC). I also had a speedflow fitting welded onto the back of the pump where a heater hose would usually go, this will be the turbo water return. Also picked up and EVO III water pulley they are meant to be larger in diameter so should underdrive the pump.
- Alternator has been relocated to the other side of the block to give more room for water pump inlet, plus the jayracing relocation kit looks sexy.
- The back of the head has been sorted for clearance, I am using a datsun 180b thermostate elbow and a 6mm alloy adaptor plate that I had watercut. I still have to get a fitting on the top welded on, it is a speed flow fitting with a 1/8NPT thread I will use this to bleed the air out of the 180b elbow. This whole setup sticks out less then the CAS so firewall clearance should be good.
- Cut front off the NA manifold that I had and have set it up for a XF throttle body (flange currently tacked in place till I can get it to the welder), blanking plates have been made up for the other end of the manifold and EGR valve.
Today we finished replacing all of the timing gear and pulling the balance shafts out of the motor so it is slowly getting there just have to sort out the flywheel and clutch combo then I can put it all in the car :) Also got some RX7 series7 calipers here to fit up.
Here are some pics
The camera didn't show the red up it is much darker in colour.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6200693.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6200701.jpg
RWD Water pump alternator relocated.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6200695.jpg
Speedflow fitting for turbo water return.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6200694.jpg
Jayracing alternator relocation kit, alternator needs a clean.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6200696.jpg
Rear water outlet
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6200697.jpg
6mm Adaptor flange, line up to all the holes.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6200698.jpg
180b thermostate elbow, line up with the two top bolt holes once I increased the diameter of the holes in the elbow. Speedflow fitting on the top to bleed the air off, currently held in place with a bolt till I can get it welded on.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P6200699.jpg
HoonBoy
21-06-09, 01:41 PM
No fair, putting in a new kitchen was my excuse for no progress! :)
In saying that, you've done a buttload of work, looking real good. It's a change to see someone list all the changes needed for a RWD setup. Are you still using the Scorpion struts?? If so, will be interested in the brake conversion details. Any reason you went RX7 over Skyline 4-pots that every man and his dog seems to use?
All the info is out there but is was a matter of putting it all together, and a lot of the conversions are very dodge. I don't mind sharing how I am doing it as it helps out a lot of the other guys like us who are doing all the work themself.
I went the rx7's over everything else because they were going for a good price ($200 with rotors). I don't think that I will be able to use the rx7 rotor as they are very tall and will set themself too far inboard so the caliper adaptor will be hard to make strong. I am looking into using some think like the wrx rotor I think it is DBA part number 5000.
I do have what I think are GH Scorpion struts but they weren't green in colour and have KYB stamped on them, maybe they are after market a friend has a pair of green sturts so I can compare them but they definetly have the 4 bolts holes that you mount the caliper adaptor plate onto.
Not a lot more progress, I have been stuffing around with different starter motors and flywheels hoping to get a VR4 flywheel/clutch fitted up but no luck with getting the starter to mesh to ring gear looks like I will have to make do with a sigma flywheel.
New mounts are done, definetly a lot stiffer then the old rubber ones.
I took the original urethane mount and cut the urethane out of it then used the top and bottom plates to make the new ones.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P8100796.jpg
I made a jig to hold the top and bottom plate in the correct postions so I could build them up out of the car. Plus I can make spares.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P8100797.jpg
End result in the car.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P8230813.jpg
I also had a chance to check clearance for the rear water outlet to the firewall, there is much more room then I thought I shouldn't have any issues getting the rear water pipe on.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P8230822.jpg
And inlet manifold all converted to RWD with a XF falcoon throttle body, I had a few of the extra fittings welded up to make it look cleaner.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P8230823.jpg
Been busy buying up bits and pieces for the car since the last update, hopefully I have got most of the expensive items now.
I had a Kelway turbo manifold made up to highmount a garret turbo, I am very happy with the fit and finish of the manifold I highly recommend Chris. The turbo looked pretty small in the box, only Gt30 comp housing, but it really filled the engine bay out nicely, it's starting to look complete.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PB060929.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PB060935.jpg
The pretty purple fuel rail is starting to grow on me, it was meant to bolt straight up but will need some different spacers and bolts to work.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PB060927.jpg
I also bought a computer and I'm in the process of wiring it up.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/PB060936.jpg
I also bought a pair of RX7 series6 calipers and had some 8mm spacers made up so they can take a 30mm rotor, they included new pad guide pins to suit but were too short I am still waiting on replacements. At this stage I am thinking of using VE V6 front rotors, they are 298x30mm and can be had pretty cheaply.
I have trimed over the top of the cracked dash and finished off all of the wiring for car electrics. I got hold of a "momo" wheel off ebay all I need now is some gauges to fill the holes, I was looking at digital dashes but haven't found one for the right price.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P8230819.jpg
Next steps are to finish wiring up the autronic, get some ls1 coils and do the fuel system. It is getting very close to firing up.
charged
11-11-09, 08:33 PM
nearly there, bet you cant wait for the first race meet
nearly there, bet you cant wait for the first race meet
Really looking forwards to it, hopefully I don't smash it up first time out. Would your gang have any old 225x50x15's laying around that would be suitable for one practice day? I am looking for set so I can get the car rolling on the new rims and to test everything out prior to buying a new set.
Been stuffing around with the diff all weekend, but think I am heading in the right direction with it now. I am going to off load the series3 rx7 diff as it is way too wide and not really worth cutting down, if it was going to be bullet proof I would have had it done but there is was a good chance it would be snapping axles.
Here is a picture of the rx7 diff with 225's +26 offset rims, only stuck out around 70mm past each guard, not IPRA leagal.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/Diff/PB220953.jpg
I have been trying to avoid using a hilux diff as I have been told they are 80-90kg which is way too heavy for my little car. Looked at H190's out of a s3 bluebird but it is only slightly narrower then the rx7 diff. I spent the weekend going between U-pull-its measuring diffs and ended up coming home with a early mazda 929 (rx4 era) diff. I now have to find some 13b 28spline axles and spider gears to drop into the housing. If iuse the 929 housing instead of the rx4 13b housing it give me a larger selection of gears and easier access to LSD's
Here it is dummied up under the car, it only sticks out around 40mm each side past the factory bodywork so makes it in nicely under the 50mm rule.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/Diff/PB220962.jpg
Nearly fits under the small flares that I have fitted up, these will need to be modified to cover the tyre.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/Diff/PB220965.jpg
Out of interest if anyone else is looking at these diffs here is asome of the info that I collected on widths and weights.
LB Stock Width = 1330mm wheel mounting faces
929 Width = 1420mm wheel mounting faces
RX7 s3 Width = 1480mm wheel mounting faces
LB Stock weight = 44.4kg including drums
929 weight = 63.8kg including drums and mounts as pictured
RX7 weight = 54.1kg discs on but no calipers
Pictured from top downwards, Stock LB, 929, RX7 series 3.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/Diff/PB220957.jpg
HoonBoy
22-11-09, 10:22 PM
Did you look at a H190 from the 720 ute? I think they are not as wide as the bluebird one.
Did you look at a H190 from the 720 ute? I think they are not as wide as the bluebird one.
They had one there it measured up to be around 1430mm bloody big looking thing.
HoonBoy
22-11-09, 10:39 PM
They are big looking, but I can carry one around on my own without any issues so they can't be that heavy. (minus brakes, haven't sorted that yet..)
charged
23-11-09, 06:32 PM
Really looking forwards to it, hopefully I don't smash it up first time out. Would your gang have any old 225x50x15's laying around that would be suitable for one practice day? I am looking for set so I can get the car rolling on the new rims and to test everything out prior to buying a new set.
Rob or Clint should have some oldies laying around, talk to Ashley he is at the workshop most days and he could get a set for you
Cheers
John
I haven't had a lot of progress lately I been too busy with other projects but I have managed to sort out most of my issue converting from cable to hydraulic clutch. I got hold of an AP Racing pull style master cheap off ebay, the plan is to mount it inside of the cabin below the clutch pivot.
This is how it ended up, it is mounted up off the one of attach points for the steering column once I am happy with get a bolt the right length a piss off some of the spacers. It all seems pretty solid and travels very freely I will see how it goes once I bleed it up. I also have to see if I can have the fluid inlet on the side like I have done.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P1200991.jpg
I also took delivery of a custom billet 2L sigma flywheel it came in at 5kg, the motor should rev up nicely.
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5576/flywheel003.jpg
PlacentaJuan
21-01-10, 07:01 AM
is very nice work.
makes me want to get into racing just to build a car like that!
Gammaboy
21-01-10, 07:06 AM
This is how it ended up, it is mounted up off the one of attach points for the steering column once I am happy with get a bolt the right length a piss off some of the spacers. It all seems pretty solid and travels very freely I will see how it goes once I bleed it up. I also have to see if I can have the fluid inlet on the side like I have done.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/SIR383/Race%20Car/P1200991.jpg
I'd try to brace the free end of that mounting bolt somewhere so it doesn't flex.
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