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View Full Version : 13's for 13.. shitbox Saab 9000 turbo



ROYALBLUE
01-02-11, 10:51 AM
as much as we tried to talk ourselves out of building a saab, the more it made sense. $80 picked us up a automatic 1991 saab 9000cd 2.3ltr turbo that operates in reverse only. weighing in at 1430kg, we figured we could strip around 200kg out of it. these things run 17.5 standard on 6psi, apparently we can run up to 25psi on standard motor with aftermarket turbo, no idea if the trans / drive shafts will hold.

97 9000se turbo second hand transmission off ebay $82 leaving $1138...

my thoughts are - t3/t4 with adaptor plate (t25 standard), 600x300 intercooler, 3" dump to nothing, high flow injectors, and attempt to sort something out with the computer

lysdexia
01-02-11, 11:00 AM
Looks like a rad base to work from, looks nice and easy to work on too which is always good

MRMOPARMAN
01-02-11, 11:13 AM
this should go well. missus used to own one.

autos are imfamous for being beyond shit. keep an eye out for a manual on the cheap

denmaster
01-02-11, 11:27 AM
Go the swedish shitboxes.
Assuming the car is in startable and running condition I think you'll make it, but you will chase your tail if it is already broken and I would suggest you give up now.
Power:
To make 13s you will need ~450hp.
Gearbox:
The autobox will be okay(for a short while). Leave it as is. Manual swap is alot of work unless you have a donor (rare-ish), and if you had one, might as well start with that...
ECU:
if you can afford an ECU, you will also need at least 750cc injectors and/or a fuel pressure regulator crush. if you have the lawicel CANUSB then you can self-flash, but that itself is a hunge or so. Many tunes open-source downloadable.
if you can't afford an ECU, then extra injectors are the go, but you will need a SHEDLOAD. You can fake the ECU with an FCD on the AFM/MAP.
Unichip (cringe) works too, but it is not economical, as you need injectors anyway.. No need to do fuel pump - standard one (in working condition) does fine.
Turbo:
There is no way in hell the standard turbo will do 450hp. Whatever fits...
Your model doesn't have boost control, therefore just bleeeeeed it all away.
N2O:
The engine loves it, if you can find the budget for it. Will help get the big huffer on song too.
Long engine:
It doesn't need anything for 450hp. I have run many a bog stock engine up to this power and it did it easily.

p.s. N2O:
The engine loves it, if you can find the budget for it. Will help get the big huffer on song too.

Shout out if you need help.

Fraud
01-02-11, 11:29 AM
I don't know why, but I really want you to pull this off.

There is almost no reason why it won't work, but gee I'm laughing on the inside though...

lysdexia
01-02-11, 11:36 AM
450hp to do 13s...? surely i'm not the only one that thinks that's a little overkill..

denmaster
01-02-11, 11:53 AM
450hp to do 13s...? surely i'm not the only one that thinks that's a little overkill..

they're heavy, and the autobox is poo. trust me, I have experience doing this (multiple times)...

Euroboost
01-02-11, 11:54 AM
450hp to do 13s...? surely i'm not the only one that thinks that's a little overkill..

Not really, these things are heavy fuckers and have tall gearing. 60 foot would be fucked but top end might get it home.
Putting it on a diet will help bigtime. The bumper beams iirc weigh 10-20kg each and the back seat isn't light.

ROYALBLUE
01-02-11, 12:08 PM
only things that will be left in the interior is instrument cluster and steering wheel to a sense.. fixed back bucket will be going in, my 3" hole saw (edit) will be getting a workout. there is heaps of stupid accessories like headlight wipers motors, engine bay lamp, etc which is all coming out inc. lh headlight. the leather seats are electric, so im presuming they must weigh around the 30kg mark each. I should be able to get the weight down around the 1250kg mark.

i have found t3/t4's for around the $150 mark, which is where we are leaning at the moment. lag may be an issue, so i have a zex fogger kit i can throw on, but i don't think it will be within budget

TT
01-02-11, 12:42 PM
my 3" hole will be getting a workout.
:eek:
at that size it sounds like it's already had a decent workout.

Jim
01-02-11, 12:56 PM
Haha awesomesauce
Love it!

skankyjoe
01-02-11, 04:44 PM
Subscribed, for some dirty disgusting reason this is my fav project so far. Even though i have no mechanical knowledge at all i'd be willing to lend a hand. Dirty saab project.

Mr Ed
01-02-11, 04:59 PM
Awesome, subscribed!!!

I wouldnt stop at 1250kg though...450hp isnt an option (although I agree thats a little ridiculous) so youre gonna need to strip that bitch to the bone!

ALLMTR
01-02-11, 06:05 PM
Go the Saab.

450hp would get a Ford F650 into the 13's

RotaUte
01-02-11, 06:24 PM
See the quote in my signature by cop.... This relates to the discussion we had regarding a 13s for 13s turbo Saab. You my friend are a fucken legend. Cop apparently now hates you. But he's a raging homo, so no big loss.

Paddington
01-02-11, 07:47 PM
A Saab. Interesting, personally I hate the things due to their wanker owners and my limited shitful experience in replacing alternators and starter motors on them, but for fun factor, this gets a 10/10.

sh|tbmxrider
01-02-11, 09:49 PM
I tip my hat, good sir.

jmac
02-02-11, 08:40 PM
if you could be bothered - go back about 10-12 years in the jyturbo mailing list (yahoogroups email lists) and check for posts by allen de-groot. He ran a turbo saab pulling pretty insane boost levels with a water to air cooler and mostly stock engine. He used to spin it to somewhere in the mid-high 8000rpm range. They apparently handle that, but above 9 something goes wrong (I think it was something to do with the cam or rockers (do they have em?)

He deliberately had it revving that high. It would produce similar power to another engine with more boost at lower rpm, but he specifically went that way (to a slight extent, nobody is suggesting 3psi and rev to 30,000rpm or anything) because the smae power level would coincide with less torque. And torque (by that stage) is what starts to destroy drivetrains, even if shockloading is avoided.

I also vaguely recall him mentioning the rev limiter cutting in mid 8000s somewhere and that with practice (and maybe modded synchros but I don't remember for sure) he could get used to the engine sounds/rpm just prior, and start putting some force onto the shift lever, then when the rev limited kicked in, he'd jam it through to the next gear, and it'd re-engage the ignition or fuel just as the gear was locked in. It used to break something in the trans after a fairly consistent number of hours of operation/abuse, but he apparently could get it apart, fixed and back together in only a few hours

Sketchy
02-02-11, 08:41 PM
My favorite build so far :)

Momus
02-02-11, 09:16 PM
It's a good point jmac makes about light boost, high rpm Indy style turbocharging versus WRC style high boost low rpm grunt.

If this SAAB with driver weighs 1325 kg (2915 lbs) and has 200 hp at the wheels (say 260 at the flywheel), it should be capable of a mid 13 second pass at just under 100 mph.

The std formula has HP x 5250 divided by rpm = torque in lbs/ft.
For 260 HP at 8000 rpm and at 4000 rpm we get :

260 HP at 4000 rpm = 341 lb/ft
260 hp at 5000 rpm = 273 lb/ft
260 HP at 8000 rpm = 170.5 lb/ft

At 4 grand the torque load on the driveline will be pretty similar to a 5 litre V8's.
At 8 grand, the power is the same but the torque is that of a good 2 litre.

132oft
02-02-11, 10:43 PM
97 9000se turbo second hand transmission off ebay $82 leaving $1138 for explosives and other highly flammable items


Should see it destroyed in 13 seconds quite nicely.

Monk
02-02-11, 10:57 PM
Pity it's not a 2 door, but this is cool.

Captain_Slow
03-02-11, 02:08 PM
Great to see this - I kicked around some thoughts in the initial thread about cheap old turbo cars that could be contenders and this was one of the ones that came to mind.

Setanta
03-02-11, 04:39 PM
I'm ashamed to admit that I liked Saab Aeros in my misbegotten youth - then again I owned a Triumph at the time :D

God I hope you break the 13s :)

Euroboost
05-02-11, 06:27 AM
I've always had "something" for Saabs, but nopics has been wanting a 9000Aero since we met!

Jim
05-02-11, 11:06 AM
I don't know much about drag racing but it seems to me most of the time is gained at the start so big torque is probably a good thing.

Euroboost
05-02-11, 11:59 AM
What are you doing about the ECU? I can't remember if they changed ECUs between DI and non DI cars, I'd be chucking the DI for a dizzy unless you know for sure the unit is good purely for budget reasons in this. Or throw an aftermarket ecu and run different coilpacks.

Oh just realised this is a CD, didn't read the OP properly and it just clicked the car has the slant nose. Iirc these a slightly heavier then the hatch, usually because they had more luxo gear.
This thread might help:
Saab forum
(http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138633)

denmaster
06-02-11, 11:32 AM
If any of you have drag raced these you would know I'm serious about the 450hp to get the 13s as it launches like poo, so lots of top end power to get it there...
the computer is fine even if it is DI, ad it would be trionic 5, which is easy to FCD with dog food can engineering. Its alot of screwing around to make it go back to dizzy management, and whatever for?
Good idea cutting it apart. many many things are heavy in the car - bumper supports and seats are a good start, follow it with the dash and air conditioning.
Thanks!

Jim
06-02-11, 12:00 PM
Sounds like it's the usual euro over gearing. Need a lower diff ratio somehow...

RotaUte
06-02-11, 09:46 PM
Sounds like it's the usual euro over gearing. Need a lower diff ratio somehow...

Or run the smallest diameter rims you can find to fit with the lowest profile :P

denmaster
07-02-11, 02:16 AM
small wheels help... 15s (which this is already running on) are realllly close to the brakes standard.

HoonBoy
07-02-11, 07:14 AM
I'd look at some RWD offset rims with spacers to get it down to 14's or hopefully 13's.

GHaST
12-02-11, 11:17 AM
Im almost certain the turbo on my bmw is from these things, as well as my injectors in fact.

Look up tb0356 (t3) turbo. fwiw Ive had mine up to a bar for peroids. *shrugs*

anyway, I have a graph which came with specs which may help ya.
Model: Garrett/Airesearch TB0356 (T3 Series)
Wastegate: ~7psi
Compressor Trim: 50
Turbine Trim: 69
Compressor Housing A/R: .42
Turbine Housing A/R: .48
Recommended applications 150-275hp 1.5-2.2L (I assume @ 7psi??)
http://i52.tinypic.com/fxgnev.jpg

2JZR31
16-02-11, 09:10 PM
This skidding yet?

snelens
17-02-11, 08:33 PM
Every cunt hates me because I like them but can I like you? There are actually other silly people that think that SAABs can actually do something.

Contact this guy; http://www.jzwtuning.com/ Cheap changeover ECUs that are better than powerchip's

or if you know about laptops, tuning etc download from here; http://trionic.mobixs.eu/

Lurk here for lots of info; http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22

And then you can meet these people & have something to talk about; http://www.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJ2vR25QrpKIBMJMIJEdH-GIHq1-Jezio5WpZpTeql25ohKGVZkfF0k4o

Go get em in the dentist chariot.

ALLMTR
17-02-11, 08:37 PM
Hmmm lack of updates is concerning

ROYALBLUE
18-02-11, 10:54 AM
lack of time has kept me from updating, and i haven't had time to actually do anything to it. pulled the original box out, and found the bellhousing is different to the new box (which is also half of the box casing). was considering on changing the casings over, but working 6days/w in the industry leaves me reluctant to be repairing before modifying.

blownhemi
18-02-11, 10:55 AM
Come on dude, as the only front wheel drive in the bunch we're all watching this one.

Jim
18-02-11, 11:19 AM
As the only Saab on the entire forums we're all watching! :lol:

ALLMTR
18-02-11, 01:38 PM
Come on dude, as the only front wheel drive in the bunch we're all watching this one.

What about the VW that eurovision's wife is building him?

Tils
18-02-11, 01:48 PM
And the slutlet...