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View Full Version : FWD: 13s for $1300 Project Spray and Pray N13



patrick_h_oz
02-05-12, 05:12 PM
Ok, here's my chosen chariot- the mighty powerhouse that is the N13 Pulsar with the 1.6L 16LE engine, featuring the wonders of throttle body injection utilising a single low pressure injector!

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/N13Medium.jpg

It was my daily until I purchased another Silvia to replace it. The rego was about to expire when this contest was announced, so I re-registered it instead of trying to flog it off. As it wasn't purchased for this competition I'll need a referee's decision on the base cost.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/N134573Medium.jpg

I started out by stripping out most of the interior. Yes, that is a brand new spare tyre that has never seen road.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/N134584Medium-1.jpg

After stripping out the head unit and stereo gear I hooked up a tacho I've had sitting around for ages. From memory it cost me $50 from 999 Automotive. This will serve 2 purposes, only one of which will include flashing me when it's time to change gears. More on that later.

I was originally planning on getting the head shaved for more compression and running it on E85 and seeing how far that got me, but the sheer amount of effort involved put me off. Remember, the EFI on these things is pretty primitive. Then I thought of using the old T25 off my CA and converting the engine to use the CA ECU, injectors etc. Did some quick sums and realised that wasn't happening with my budget.

Hmm... what to do? :dunno:

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/N134588Medium.jpg

Yep.. NOS time! :yup:

Yes, I said NOS! It's a NOS Sniper Kit. $435 plus delivery. I decided to blow most of my budget on a new kit for of peace of mind.

It seemed like the logical answer- no need to tune the ECU, upgrade injectors etc. I went for the 75-125HP V8 kit (it appears to include jets for the smaller kit as well- 35, 50HP). I was pleasantly surprised by how small the solenoids and stuff actually are. The only downside of the kit is that it is illegal to have it installed on the street. I plan to make it quick and easy to install and remove.

As the N13 has a low pressure fuel system I'm going to add a small fuel cell and VL fuel pump (it was a freebie!) for the fuel side of the NOS system. Think 5L plastic fuel can with a couple of fittings installed and the VL pump mounted under it for gravity feed. I could jet the kit for the lower fuel pressure but I figure it is safer to just run a new system for it. I have a fuel reg off an NA CA in my spare parts box that I will use to regulate the fuel pressure. I just need to make up an adapter to attach it to the fuel hose. I may be able to get away with a smaller tank and mount it under a fender. Depends how much fuel it will use per run. Surely 2L would be heaps?

I plan to piggyback a relay off the shift light to deactivate the kit about 5500 rpm. I'm trying to find a cheap window switch or self contained shift light to turn the kit on once I hit 3000rpm. I figure that should let me get rolling then give me a BIG push. I'll get it on the dyno to check out AFRs etc before I run it as I'll be disappointed if it doesn't survive at least a few runs down the quarter.

I have a couple of other ideas up my sleeves. I plan to pick up some dry ice and remove the sound deadening. I've also been thinking about the suspension and I think I've worked out a cheap upgrade for the rear springs. I'm not sure which wheels I will use yet. My Silvia has multi-stud rims with KU36s on the back but I haven't checked fitment yet. I have a set of stock rims with 2 pretty new tyres that I might use on the back with them, but that will probably look shite. The tyres on the 17s are only about 6 months old so maybe I'll just run them.

Basically, my plan boils down to

Lighten the hell out of it.
Stiffen up the rear to reduce weight transfer.
Give it a big hit of NOS and hope it stays together for a few passes.


Cheers for reading!

If anyone has a set of stock N15 front springs sitting around that they can donate/sell to me please PM. Other stuff that would be handy is a Barina throttle body hat and 1.8L top end and ECU- head, inlet manifold etc.. :)

edit- fixed price

blownhemi
02-05-12, 05:26 PM
Very cool. Those NOS kits have come down in price. Mine cost me $480 + post

patrick_h_oz
02-05-12, 05:30 PM
oops, typo.. $435 plus freight. Best price I could find on eBay.

OKE020
02-05-12, 08:25 PM
For sake of budget you can get the nos sniper kit for $390+ freight from rocket/vpw if you ask the right people. Cheap bangs for not many bucks.

WildZero
03-05-12, 12:55 AM
Other stuff that would be handy is a Barina throttle body hat and 1.8L top end and ECU- head, inlet manifold etc.. :)

edit- fixed price

Have all of the N13 top end gear spare, will have to do a closer invoicing of what's in the shed though as it's been awhile. Though I do know I have a turbo manifold and TD04L to suit one of these in there. ;)

Tils
03-05-12, 05:03 AM
I'd try to flog the pulsar for 800- 1000. So we'll call it 500? LOL

Jim
03-05-12, 06:30 AM
These are camira motors yeah?
2.0 camira motor and ecu and a delco tune should cost fuck all. Perfect for the turbo.

lysdexia
03-05-12, 12:38 PM
same motor but different bellhousing bolt pattern.

Spoonfed
03-05-12, 01:29 PM
How much NOS, those 1.6l pulstarts are farrrrking slow, high 18 or worse maybe.

stockymcstock
03-05-12, 01:40 PM
needs a $500 CA18DET conversion

they are ridiculously slow in standard form!

blownhemi
03-05-12, 08:21 PM
needs a $500 CA18DET conversion

they are ridiculously slow in standard form!

Where can I get one of these ;)

vet 180
03-05-12, 09:22 PM
I think you should go the turbo path. Just do rpm switch and extra injector. Good base though. It is what I would have chosen

WildZero
03-05-12, 10:55 PM
Fuck the 16LF top end off as it's the shitest induction setup ever made. The 18LE head, camshaft and inlet manifold is a massive improvement. The leaded JD Camira in MPFI-guise is the best head of the lot with the largest ports; however it's getting hard to find and this variant used bosch D-Jetro hose-tail injectors unlike the Delco stuff, so more stuffing around in getting everything to work. VN/VP Commodore throttle body is a good mod if you can make up an adaptor plate to bolt it to the 18LE or JD Camira plenum.

That being said the GM family II motors for what they are, are pretty damn bulletproof. Keep the revs sensible and they'll live a long life. Factory 18LE bottom-end isn't shy about boost either ;)

patrick_h_oz
04-05-12, 12:32 AM
Fuck the 16LF top end off as it's the shitest induction setup ever made. The 18LE head, camshaft and inlet manifold is a massive improvement. The leaded JD Camira in MPFI-guise is the best head of the lot with the largest ports; however it's getting hard to find and this variant used bosch D-Jetro hose-tail injectors unlike the Delco stuff, so more stuffing around in getting everything to work. VN/VP Commodore throttle body is a good mod if you can make up an adaptor plate to bolt it to the 18LE or JD Camira plenum.

That being said the GM family II motors for what they are, are pretty damn bulletproof. Keep the revs sensible and they'll live a long life. Factory 18LE bottom-end isn't shy about boost either ;)

Agreed about the 1.6 top end being crap, hence my search for a cheap (or free ;) )1.8 top end. Apparently the 1.8 head has bigger valves and smaller combustion chambers, plus adding MPFI can only be an improvement.

I seriously considered turboing it, but after weeks searching around ebay, boost, etc for 1.8 top ends I gave up on that idea, plus I wanted to have a play with nitrous on a disposable engine before fitting it to one of my CAs.

I don't plan on revving it past 6000rpm. Once I have had it on the dyno I'll have a better idea of where the torque drops off.

The NOS kit has jets up to 125hp.. but I'm hoping not to have to go that far. I'll start with a 50 shot and go from there.

Motherfucker Jones
04-05-12, 07:30 AM
Palcon make an adjustable rpm switch you could use to arm/disarm the nitrous. If you wanted to go super flash NOS make a controller which has a window switch and progressive controller so you can feed the gas in over a time period do its not as harsh on the motor. I think they're about $250 though. Push button on the steering wheel would be cheaper :D

Either way run a full throttle switch and a clutch switch for less chance of kabooms

blownhemi
04-05-12, 09:39 AM
Palcon make an adjustable rpm switch you could use to arm/disarm the nitrous. If you wanted to go super flash NOS make a controller which has a window switch and progressive controller so you can feed the gas in over a time period do its not as harsh on the motor. I think they're about $250 though. Push button on the steering wheel would be cheaper :D

Either way run a full throttle switch and a clutch switch for less chance of kabooms

You need good (read:expensive) nitrous solenoids for a progressive kit. Stuttering the cheap solenoids that come with the sniper kit will ruin them quickly.

This thread is relevant to my interests seeing I've just been offered an N13 for $1. It has no motor/gear and all the struts are sitting in the boot, but it's mostly there and cheap. I'm considering an SR20 upgrade.

Motherfucker Jones
04-05-12, 10:04 AM
You need good (read:expensive) nitrous solenoids for a progressive kit. Stuttering the cheap solenoids that come with the sniper kit will ruin them quickly.

And that would be tragic on such an expensive engine/project as this :D

But yeah point taken. I have heard they are hard on most solenoids and they need to be rebuilt regularly. If youre only looking to do a few 'spray and pray' passes it might work out, but if you end up doing a heap of passes they probs fuck out. For something like this it's probably an unjustified expense anyway unless you're trying to shelf 200hp into it.

E-Z
04-05-12, 10:09 AM
could you plumb 2 jets? 50hp at say 3500rpm, and another at like 4500?

blownhemi
04-05-12, 10:16 AM
could you plumb 2 jets? 50hp at say 3500rpm, and another at like 4500?

That would be the way to do it. Bascially you'd be fitting two separate nitrous systems (another fogger and two more solenoids). I might even be possible to feed it all through the one fogger nozzle but the cost of parts etc, you might as well buy a second kit.

Giggle factor would be high.

patrick_h_oz
04-05-12, 12:06 PM
could you plumb 2 jets? 50hp at say 3500rpm, and another at like 4500?

Yep, but cost is the issue there. I'd need another set of solenoids, fogger and jets. I'm not looking at a progressive setup, just getting off the line and hitting it. I've just ordered a standalone shiftlight. I'll use that to arm it, and the tacho's shiftlight to disarm it using relays piggybacked off the light wiring. That's the cheapest option I could come up.

So far I'm at about $1100 :(
$500 car
$435 NOS kit
$95 for the tacho and shift light

I still need rear springs and a fuel cell for the NOS kit. Plus I need to fill the bottle and buy some dry ice. Hoping to run it down the quarter before I head OS at the end of June.

edit- plus pay for an hour or two of dyno time to set the NOS up and check AFRs etc

Skompa
04-05-12, 12:18 PM
Are you in vic? I've got a mate with at least 2 of these fuckers in his backyard he would give/sell cars/parts.

patrick_h_oz
04-05-12, 02:12 PM
Are you in vic? I've got a mate with at least 2 of these fuckers in his backyard he would give/sell cars/parts.

No, I'm in Brisbane.. damn :(

blownhemi
04-05-12, 03:14 PM
Are you in vic? I've got a mate with at least 2 of these fuckers in his backyard he would give/sell cars/parts.


Please say Northern Victoria :)

Skompa
04-05-12, 03:49 PM
Please say Northern Victoria :)


Sunbury which is north western suburbs.

myliberty
04-05-12, 05:04 PM
Fuck the arming stuff, just hook it to a button on the wheel. You know when to press it.

blownhemi
04-05-12, 05:44 PM
Just hook it to the throttle the way it's supposed to be. It only activates at full throttle. If you want to get off the line with no gas, don't give it full throttle.

Motherfucker Jones
07-05-12, 08:20 AM
Please say Northern Victoria :)

What do you need?

Just remembered I have a big block 1.8 one of these in my ex gf's front yard. It's all there except 2nd gear

And I'll be coming down to albury in the next couple weeks

blownhemi
07-05-12, 08:46 AM
What do you need?

Just remembered I have a big block 1.8 one of these in my ex gf's front yard. It's all there except 2nd gear

And I'll be coming down to albury in the next couple weeks

Well the one my mate has is missing engine and box and a couple parts like one headlight and the taillights. Is it a sedan or hatch?

Motherfucker Jones
07-05-12, 11:20 AM
Hatch. Make me an offer and I'll drag it down in a couple weeks if you're keen

patrick_h_oz
07-05-12, 06:31 PM
Just finishing ripping the heavy as fark towbar off it. Had to grind the heads of two of the bolts due to threads being both rusty and bent. I think the back just sat up another half inch. Maybe I should try and find a second hand set of lowered springs now? Meh, if I have room in the budget later.

No pics as it was dark before I finished.

Crash Dummy
07-05-12, 11:25 PM
Patrick, I might be able to save you some trouble. Peak power on a good 1.6 is 5600rpm with peak torque I think was 4600rpm or so. Standard redline begins at 6000rpm with the hard redline at 6500. Fuel cut is 6750rpm which will see you head butt the windscreen until the revs drop back down to 6250rpm. It hurts!

I reckon you should set your nitrous cut off at 6000rpm. Surely the nitrous would help the engine keep pulling after where it would normally run out of airflow on the cam ? And set your base advance on the dizzy to suit the nitrous.
Good luck with it. Even with the 1.6 if it doesn't do a 13 i'm still keen as hell to see what it will do with a decent shot of happy gas.
P.S basic fueling control can be toyed with by varying the coolant temp sensor signal. A engine running under operating temperature runs so rich that in normal driving it's pushing around 30% worse fuel economy and will bog and backfire out the inlet from a big throttle opening at low revs. :lol:

patrick_h_oz
08-05-12, 06:18 PM
Patrick, I might be able to save you some trouble. Peak power on a good 1.6 is 5600rpm with peak torque I think was 4600rpm or so. Standard redline begins at 6000rpm with the hard redline at 6500. Fuel cut is 6750rpm which will see you head butt the windscreen until the revs drop back down to 6250rpm. It hurts!

I reckon you should set your nitrous cut off at 6000rpm. Surely the nitrous would help the engine keep pulling after where it would normally run out of airflow on the cam ? And set your base advance on the dizzy to suit the nitrous.
Good luck with it. Even with the 1.6 if it doesn't do a 13 i'm still keen as hell to see what it will do with a decent shot of happy gas.
P.S basic fueling control can be toyed with by varying the coolant temp sensor signal. A engine running under operating temperature runs so rich that in normal driving it's pushing around 30% worse fuel economy and will bog and backfire out the inlet from a big throttle opening at low revs. :lol:

Cheers for that. That's my basic plan in a nutshell. I want the nitrous active between 3000 and about 6000rpm at WOT. I'll be using 98RON pump fuel, so that should let me run pretty much standard timing as the motors were built to run regular piss-poor unleaded. Compression is a staggering 8.6:1 so it should take a decent hit of N2O as long as the mixtures are right. I've been researching NOS motors on Yellowbullet and some of those sick bastards are running 15:1 compression with multi stage kits on it!

I'm aware of the fuel cut and have no desire to hit it. I hit it a few times in the Silvia when the wastegate hose popped off. Was fun for a second- FknWOOOOOO!WTF? Ouch!

I had considered running a second regulator downstream of the throttle body to override the standard reg or upgrading the spring in the stock one, but now that I'm hitting it with N2O I don't think I really need to add more fuel through the injector. Apparently it has a low temp thermostat in it, which I'm considering changing back to standard.. but that's more money. It rarely gets up to normal temp on the factory temp gauge.

ls400x
13-05-12, 08:16 PM
I have a free 1.8L version if you take the whole car, couple hours north of Brizzy

patrick_h_oz
14-05-12, 11:38 AM
I have a free 1.8L version if you take the whole car, couple hours north of Brizzy

Very tempting, but I have nowhere to keep it. What sort of condition is the engine in?

I have to spend the next 2 weeks on exam preparation so not much will be achieved :knock:

I really want to graduate at the end of the year!

ls400x
16-05-12, 07:34 PM
I think the engine is good, it wasn't run into the ground without water or oil or anything like that.

patrick_h_oz
20-05-12, 03:29 PM
FFS! I need a garage/workshop of my own. I know I have a VL high pressure fuel pump here somewhere... My oldies garage eats stuff! :mad:

Add the fuel pump to the box with XA GT bonnet vents and XW/XY nolathane bushes in it.. and probably other stuff I've forgotten about.

Anyone in Brisbane have an in-line fuel pump lying around free to a worthy cause?? Doesn't need to be massive as it's only supporting the fuel side of the NOS kit.

Cheers!

patrick_h_oz
27-05-12, 08:23 PM
Ok, I've been busy with exams (still am, but meh) but I managed to get a little bit more done. Mocked up the solenoids etc.. I'll pick up some Teflon paste during the week and reassemble it. I also need to knock up a bracket for the nozzle. I think I'll mount the relay inside the air cleaner too, just to continue the stealthy theme.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/DSCN4621Medium.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/DSCN4622Medium.jpg

With the lid on the aircleaner all you can see is the 2 fittings sticking out the bottom.. :cool:

The only thing I'm wondering about atm is how much clearance I need above the retaining nut? I had a quick look at the diagrams and it look like that lifts when the solenoid is opened?

and here's a pic of the interior.. not much left to strip out other than the roof lining, which is falling down anyway.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/DSCN4626Medium.jpg

I'm still waiting on some parts I ordered off ebay during the week, and a couple of books on nitrous I ordered off Amazon weeks ago! :wtf:

Waiting on a NOS pressure gauge and safety release valve and tube. According the rules these don't count towards budget, being safety items required to run nitrous inside the cabin, correct?

I still have to go through the garage and try to find that bloody fuel pump, then I can put together the fuel side of things. I have an aluminium drink bottle (1L) from SuperPooperCheap (2 for $9.99, so $5) and bought $30 worth of random fittings from Tony Powells to join stuff together. I did something similar to replace the cracked overflow bottle in my S13 (pic below, before I painted it aluminium lol). This surge tank will be Teed in before the existing fuel filter, and gravity feed the high pressure pump for the NOS system. There will be a separate fuel filter after the pump, so I won't be using the little one supplied with the NOS kit.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/419532_10150558807716603_701696602_9588039_1382689 904_n.jpg

blownhemi
27-05-12, 11:02 PM
Safety valve and blow down tube would be considered safety items IMO.

You seem to have an extra seat in there for some reason :)

patrick_h_oz
27-05-12, 11:40 PM
You seem to have an extra seat in there for some reason :)

I know. It will come out when I mount the bottle brackets where the passenger seat is currently. Leaving it in place was the best temporary storage option I could come up with. I have had to fill my 'good' car with all the crap I've pulled out of this one. Luckily, it is undriveable at the moment.. lol

patrick_h_oz
26-08-12, 01:13 AM
Okay, I have been a bit lazy since I got back from spending 5 weeks overseas, but I have everything I need minus a few little things. I'm waiting on my wide-band O2 gauge to arrive, I also need to find money to fill the N2O bottle, and a set of 35 or 50hp jets to test with. Probably should have bought the smaller kit to begin with.

I have a pile of bits beside my desk waiting for me to have time to fit them.. and I have to study for my uni exams in just over a week.

I really wish I'd kept plugging away at it but time and motivation have been lacking. I keep buying bits then adding them to the pile...

patrick_h_oz
28-08-12, 12:44 AM
Delivery today :)

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t378/patrick_h_oz/IMG_6903Medium.jpg

Product Details (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/db.php)

I can see this being very useful in the near future..

ls400x
28-08-12, 09:21 AM
I can't wait to get to try out mine.

patrick_h_oz
29-08-12, 09:47 AM
Only real problem I have with it is that they still use a serial cable instead of USB.. and neither of my laptops have a serial port.:wayned:

Luckily Jaycar have a serial to usb adapter, but there goes another $30. I plan on mounting my netbook in the car to log AFRs.

patrick_h_oz
02-09-12, 11:23 PM
Had a crazy weight saving idea the other day- panelvan/sedan delivery conversion. Remove the rear door windows and winders, install a couple of brackets to tie the back of the rear doors to the C pillar, and make up a couple of aluminium panels to cover the holes and the missing trim behind the door with the vents in. I figure the aluminium panels and a couple of steel brackets will weigh a decent bit less than the glass and window winders etc that I'd be pulling out.

Ideally, I'd weld the rear doors shut, remove the handles, locks etc and bog up the panel gaps, but I doubt I'd go that far as I won't be keeping the car after the challenge.

I wouldn't mind having a crack at replacing the door glass if I can fit it into the budget.. which I think I'll struggle to keep to now. I figure the glass is the heaviest stuff left that is easy to remove.

Sounds crazy to me.. but also kind of appealing. I don't know if I'll have time or room in the budget for it.

Anyone know a reasonably priced source of polycarbonate or clear acrylic sheet?

patrick_h_oz
02-10-12, 08:31 PM
Okay, rego is about to run out again and I don't have the cash to renew it, or somewhere to stash it off the street. I have too much uni stuff to take care of the next few weeks, so I'm pretty much screwed as far as finishing this off before Xmas.

If anyone is interested in a cheap N13 for a project/daily I'll be putting the car up for sale at the end of the week (no RWC). It will come on standard tyres and rims with decent tread and the tacho. I'm keeping the 17s and the NOS gear. All interior will be in the back of the car unless I get time to refit it.

Bad stuff- AC compressor is seized and it has 2 small spots of rust- one in the bottom of the RHF guard, and one in the engine bay on a seam.

patrick_h_oz
18-10-12, 04:59 PM
I'm officially out- car is on eBay, minus the NOS, 17s and tacho. :wayned:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110966058108?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1203

I really need my own place... or a shed somewhere.

blownhemi
18-10-12, 05:17 PM
Fuckin' Queensland, boo

patrick_h_oz
19-10-12, 01:22 PM
Hey, I'm a pov-ass uni student now, can't afford to keep paying the rego just so I can legally park it on the street. :(