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Thread: Wastegate off turbo housing

  1. #1
    \/ \/ My motivation \/ \/ ALLMTR's Avatar
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    Wastegate off turbo housing

    What are peoples thoughts on this?

    I see a few of 6boost's setups running these.
    1jz Rolla Van ....... 11.6 at 124mph

    "Reacher figured if he could put that drivetrain in some battered old sedan body, then that would be his kind of car"

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  2. #2
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    ATP Turbo in the US sell their own turbine housings with an external wastegate flange cast into them for fitment to standard manifolds. Probably not what you're looking to use it for but they're obviously doing alright.

    There are also adaptor plate style jobs with external wastegate mounts in them floating about. I think I saw pics on a supra website a while back. Seem to be alright quality too.

  3. #3
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    Hi Chuck,

    Its a good thing™ You can build a tighter, cleaner collector section on your manifold which helps spool and power and the other great advantage is the exhaust gasses don't have to turn 90 degrees to go out the wastegate - if you imagine the gasses screaming into the housing at high speed they dont want to change direction much cause of their velocity. Having the wastegate pipe integrated at the start of the bend in the turbine volute means the gasses go straight out with little fuss...

    I like it

  4. #4
    \/ \/ My motivation \/ \/ ALLMTR's Avatar
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    So is it as simple as removing the housing and cutting it out????
    1jz Rolla Van ....... 11.6 at 124mph

    "Reacher figured if he could put that drivetrain in some battered old sedan body, then that would be his kind of car"

    .

  5. #5
    Registered User The Mafia's Avatar
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    pics? I want to see

  6. #6
    Registered User 2rismo's Avatar
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    This can be done very well OR very piss-poorly. (It is a word, no?).

    Speak to Leigh from Extreme Turbo Manifolds - he's a bit of a guru on this type of thing.

  7. #7
    Registered User Calibrator's Avatar
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    I have a real concoction of a turbo I removed from a car that has had a hole hacked in the housing and a pipe welded on for the wastegate. Wastegate seemed to work fine.

    reason I took it off is because the T4 truck exh housing was bigger than the compressor housing. this was fitted to a Auto E39 528i.

    Thing coudnt boost more than 1 bar with the wastegate blanked off and no boost till 4000rpm
    Last edited by Calibrator; 04-07-07 at 03:19 AM.

  8. #8
    Registered User 260BC's Avatar
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    Would not do it myself, on the basis that the turbo housing design would be messed with majorly with unknown consequences. Principle: don't alter something unless the outcome is fairly certain.
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  9. #9
    BLOODY IDIOT OVL087's Avatar
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    i have the gate off my housing

    boost line on the dyno is flat as flat can be

    can maintain perfect boost control

    send a msg to kyle (6boost) he is the man you will get the best advice from regarding this modification.

    he has done it to many of his customers cars , and all are spot on.
    9.9 sec vl turbo


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  10. #10
    BLING BLING PLAYA's Avatar
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    I wrote about this before on here

    Kyle done mine and it works real good. Before i could only run minimum of 24 psi with turbosmart 45mm gate. I then put the gate on the turbine housing and can run 16 psi minimum. Boost control seems good too once the AVCR actually sorts its shit out.
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  11. #11
    Nay sayer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Thread from the dead!!

    Im thinking about doing this. Any specifics or advice about how it should be done? Pics of what has been found to work?

    Especially curious about whether its best to have the wastegate pipe coming in at an angle to reduce the change in flow direction, or just run the pipe out at right angles? (Will MSpaint something up if this doesnt make sense)
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  12. #12
    MacGuyver stockymcstock's Avatar
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    if you do it, make sure you ring kyle and get it done properly. From memory when i spoke to him about it YEARS ago (memory is hazy) he said you had to weld it some special way, with the whole housing really hot or something, and then cool it down super slowly in a bucket of sand or something - anyway all I really remember is that it was tricky and needed to be done properly or else it will crack. I'd be tempted to send it to him to get done personally.

    Done right, it's a very good idea which has no real downsides.

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  13. #13
    mmmm Pre-schoolers 60TJZ's Avatar
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    Kyle recommended me (and is currently building my manifold) to run dual gates one of each pulse.
    Quote Originally Posted by psssi98 View Post
    It is also a concern that they are selling this to get a family car - meaning they have already bred.

  14. #14
    Registered User Rz's Avatar
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    ive done it , works well , no dramas with cracking.

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    ass bandit Supercrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stockymcstock View Post
    if you do it, make sure you ring kyle and get it done properly. From memory when i spoke to him about it YEARS ago (memory is hazy) he said you had to weld it some special way, with the whole housing really hot or something, and then cool it down super slowly in a bucket of sand or something - anyway all I really remember is that it was tricky and needed to be done properly or else it will crack. I'd be tempted to send it to him to get done personally.

    Done right, it's a very good idea which has no real downsides.
    Yep -a must when welding cast iron - especially when it wil then be exposed to heat.

    The place where I get this type of stuff done has a big heating bed (like a big BBQ with heat rocks to distribute the heat), and the manifold, housing etc will be heated up till cherry red and then welded.
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  16. #16
    Registered User Rz's Avatar
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    if you like to swap and change turbos a bit though , then maybe its not for you.

  17. #17
    ass bandit Supercrown's Avatar
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    Good point.
    Adjustable cam gears for 1FZ-FE now ready for sale - 10 degrees advance/10 degrees retard. Suitable for all variants of 1FZ-FE.

    (adjustable scissor gear for changing separation angle between the intake and exhaust cams coming soon)

    International sales welcome - PM me for pricing.

  18. #18
    Registered User TTerror's Avatar
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    Yes but as long as your manifold is designed well enough then there are plenty of examples out there that have no problem controlling boost with the traditional wastegate positioning.

  19. #19
    Nay sayer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Are both of yours running off the housing Gav?

    Any guesses at how much Kyle would charge to do this on a single pulse housing? I doubt it would be cheap but its not really something I want going wrong.

    Is the problem is to do with welding cast steel to a hot-rolled pipe? What if it was welded up normally and then the whole piece was annealed? (Not sure if I can do this myself at all yet but Id prefer to avoid sending bits around the country if I can)
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosurfer View Post
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  20. #20
    Nay sayer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercrown View Post
    Yep -a must when welding cast iron - especially when it wil then be exposed to heat.

    The place where I get this type of stuff done has a big heating bed (like a big BBQ with heat rocks to distribute the heat), and the manifold, housing etc will be heated up till cherry red and then welded.
    They weld it while its hot? Or they heat it up red hot after its done, then let it cool at the same rate as one piece? (second method would be annealing, first method is something Ive never heard of and obviously dont wanna do myself)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rz View Post
    if you like to swap and change turbos a bit though , then maybe its not for you.
    Doubt I'll be changing turbos for quite a while, if ever.
    Last edited by Mr Ed; 05-04-11 at 04:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosurfer View Post
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    joke on you guys because your so fucking dumb.
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  21. #21
    mmmm Pre-schoolers 60TJZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Ed View Post
    Are both of yours running off the housing Gav?

    Any guesses at how much Kyle would charge to do this on a single pulse housing? I doubt it would be cheap but its not really something I want going wrong.

    Is the problem is to do with welding cast steel to a hot-rolled pipe? What if it was welded up normally and then the whole piece was annealed? (Not sure if I can do this myself at all yet but Id prefer to avoid sending bits around the country if I can)
    Nar mine are one off each side of the collector not on the turbo housing.
    Quote Originally Posted by psssi98 View Post
    It is also a concern that they are selling this to get a family car - meaning they have already bred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Ed View Post
    They weld it while its hot? Or they heat it up red hot after its done, then let it cool at the same rate as one piece? (second method would be annealing, first method is something Ive never heard of and obviously dont wanna do myself)

    Doubt I'll be changing turbos for quite a while, if ever.
    all the cast iron welding ive seen done (old cracked heads, bits from broken machines etc) are heated till glowing, then welded, then cooled real slow.

    Though i know of a few things (tk's manifolds for one, dirty old holden blocks) where the right rod means no sooper dooper preheat.

    there used to be a mob (Bakers or somesuch rings a bell) that were just about the best in the business for cast iron welding and oddball repairs.
    Last edited by chartreusehj; 05-04-11 at 05:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogsballs View Post
    I'd rather put a 253 than efi

  23. #23
    ass bandit Supercrown's Avatar
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    Yeah Ed - heating up prior to welding - not annealing aftewards.

    I just raped the following off a site for explanation -

    Cast Iron Welding Procedures with the help of Preheat
    The cast iron welding procedure that is carried out by applying preheat is usually used in heavy industries. The concept of application of preheat makes the process a bit complicated as appropriate heating equipment is also required. Most of the times the whole object that is to be welded, is heated up till a temperature that ranges between 500 to 1200 degrees Fahrenheit. However one must avoid heating more than 1400 degrees as the metal starts turning into a molten stage. After the metal reaches the high temperature, start welding it using a low current. The low current should be used so to minimize admixture and the residual stress. Sometimes it also becomes necessary to restrict the width of the welds. Ideally the welds must be minimized to about an inch long segment. An excessive weld can also lead to cracking of the surface. The cooling process is extremely critical in the preheated welding process. The object must not be disturbed and must be allowed to cool down gradually. For gradual cooling the object can be buried in sand or can even be covered with an insulation blanket.


    And they had this to say about no pre-heat

    Cast Iron Welding Procedures without Preheat
    Preheated welding can be easily carried out at the domestic levels for small and manageable objects. While welding the cast iron without preheating, it is extremely essential to have a good control over the welding gun and have the welds as small as possible. The best option is to make the welds about 1 inch thick. It is also very important to let the welds cool down gradually. After the cooling process is complete, it is important to peen the extra welds that are deposited on the surface.


    So looking at that, if you welded it and then hit it with an oxy set to drop the temp slowly - annealing as you already mentioned (free cooling in air will be too quick - that's practically quenching) it should be fine.
    Adjustable cam gears for 1FZ-FE now ready for sale - 10 degrees advance/10 degrees retard. Suitable for all variants of 1FZ-FE.

    (adjustable scissor gear for changing separation angle between the intake and exhaust cams coming soon)

    International sales welcome - PM me for pricing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Ed View Post
    Especially curious about whether its best to have the wastegate pipe coming in at an angle to reduce the change in flow direction, or just run the pipe out at right angles? (Will MSpaint something up if this doesnt make sense)
    all the pics ive seen and advice i was given was to orient the gate so the flow has as smooth a path as possible into it.

    especially if the gates "undersized" or as in my case, decent engine capacity and low boost (harder to control so things need to be fairly right)

    If i was going to the trouble of welding to the turbine, id angle it as well as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogsballs View Post
    I'd rather put a 253 than efi

  25. #25
    MacGuyver stockymcstock's Avatar
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    angling it will make surprisingly little difference, but i would do it anyway for efficiency's sake.

    I am a Spinal and Sports Physio based in Flemington, Melbourne. Insane discounts for PF members!

    www.showgroundsphysio.com.au

    I also retail do high-level professional road bike fitting and retail Speedplay pedals and SMP seats - cheapest you'll find them anywhere.

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  26. #26
    Nay sayer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Very interesting stuff, cheers for the info guys!

    My welding skills/equipment certainly arent good enough to attempt this by the sounds of it. If I decide to go down this route I'll cut the wastegate pipe to size/shape myself and then send it to either Kyle or a possibly a more local cast steel welding specialist.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosurfer View Post
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    joke on you guys because your so fucking dumb.
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  27. #27
    ass bandit Supercrown's Avatar
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    There will be someone local to you who can cast iron weld - shouldn't be an issue.
    Adjustable cam gears for 1FZ-FE now ready for sale - 10 degrees advance/10 degrees retard. Suitable for all variants of 1FZ-FE.

    (adjustable scissor gear for changing separation angle between the intake and exhaust cams coming soon)

    International sales welcome - PM me for pricing.

  28. #28
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    im sure jake edwards torana has the gate welded to the housing of his big fuckoff turbo, so either he can do it, or he'll know someone who can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogsballs View Post
    I'd rather put a 253 than efi

  29. #29
    Registered User [RX3]'s Avatar
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    Bumping up an old thread rather than starting a new one.

    Does material from the housing matter much? Eg, using mild steel vs stainless steel ?

    Is there anything I should be careful of when I drill into a divided housing?

    I'm looking at using a 60mm gate off the housing.

  30. #30
    BLING BLING PLAYA's Avatar
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    U are sort of fucking up the purpose of a divided housing unless u use two gates.
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