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Thread: New AC/DC TIG option - cheaper CIG FYI

  1. #91
    Unregistered User Permit Roadsailing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    I've also got some 1.6mm gal sheet, will grind the gal off it and have a practice on it at your recommended settings.
    if you need more steel just get more, gal is no good and grinding it is no good.

    It is pure argon (not MIG gas) right? you will know if it is the wrong gas as it will spit like a mofo. I reckon TIG is much similar to oxy too, very civilized compared to ARC or MIG.

    watch weldingtipsandtricks on youtube if you haven't got on to him yet.

    this looks kinda interesting

    https://www.totaltools.com.au/weldin...welder-acdc200

    I bought some of their welding rods and they are great so obviously this thing will be great too looks like no provision for a pedal though. EDIT: had a look at one today and it has a "remote" socket on the machine so guess it would accept a pedal.
    Last edited by Roadsailing; 29-01-18 at 08:05 PM.

  2. #92
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    3mm mild steel:

    10-15 cfh argon
    1.6mm rod or whatever is handy, just adjust speed and feed to match. 1.6mm will be easiest, thick mig wire will mean working fast with the rod hand.
    1.6mm tungsten, thoriated/ceriated is fine
    20-30A, normally I'll set the pedal to max out at 40A for this size steel and run maybe half to three-quaarrrtars.
    the #7 cup is fine
    Tungsten stickout should never be more than 2/3s cup diameter unless using a gas lense or a fogbox
    Tungsten should be ground to a conical point, with the grind marks going the length of the rod, not around it in circles. Roughly a 60* cone point, and needle sharp.

    Put on some music while you weld, something with strict time is good. anything that gets your toe tappin' will do. Use it to practice keeping feeds'n'speeds steady and you'll be stackin' nickles in no time.

    To check for proper gas coverage:

    Grind a thick plate of mild steel down to bright clean metal. Set up the torch and tungsten for the max amps you're going to run, and the gas pre-and-post flow you want to run.
    Light up on the steel plate, no filler, and puddle up a 3mm or so puddle, no filler. shut down, and don't move the torch or plate or anything at all until you hear the gas flow shut off, just freeze-frame it til you hear the gas shut off. you should see zero discoloration on the tip of the tungsten and on the plate-it should be as bright and clean as it was when you started. If the tungsten is blued or purply, then you do not have enough gas flow, too short a post-flow time, or the tungsten is stuck out too far. If the plate is discolored, you need either more gas flow, or longer post-flow time to keep the weld covered until it's cooled.

    If you're really anal about gas coverage, do the above test with a bit of titanium plate, it will show you every little detail of gas flow and coverage. You can reuse the same plate as much as you want, as long as you polish it clean first.
    Last edited by Xnke; 29-01-18 at 09:34 AM.

  3. #93
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    Thanks again Xnke. The 1.6mm rods just arrived from the welding shop, so I'll try the settings in your post and will report back.

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    I reckon I'm doing something fundamentally wrong. Made all the adjustments suggested by Xnke, but the welds looked really cold, and lacked penetration. The only weld I managed on the 3mm MS flat bar that looks half decent, with worthwhile penetration, had the machine set on 90 amps (circled below):



    Here's the machine settings. I would have thought 90 amps on a butt joint on 3mm steel would blow a hole straight through the job. It's almost like there's another setting somewhere that's throttling the amperage. I'm just using the torch, have not tried the pedal yet.


  5. #95
    Unregistered User Permit Roadsailing's Avatar
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    yeah that doesn't look great, my TIGs looked better and I'm not very good at it (that almost looks like my ARC welding :P) it looks inconsistent too so might pay to just do more drills, that said you want it to feel right before you spend time getting it consistent.

    what is your base amps set at?

    are you moving the torch continuously or in steps?

  6. #96
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    No doubt about the need to do more drills, I've only had half an hour on this thing.

    Re base amps, I thought that was a pulse related setting? The machine won't let me adjust the base amp setting in regular DC mode.

    I'm trying to move the torch continuously, probably not very smoothly though. Need more practice for sure. Surprisingly I'm feeding the filler rod no problems with my left hand, thought this would be the hardest part.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    No doubt about the need to do more drills, I've only had half an hour on this thing.

    Re base amps, I thought that was a pulse related setting? The machine won't let me adjust the base amp setting in regular DC mode.

    I'm trying to move the torch continuously, probably not very smoothly though. Need more practice for sure. Surprisingly I'm feeding the filler rod no problems with my left hand, thought this would be the hardest part.
    fair enough, probably is an AC thing. the only TIG i've used was an ebay special which was DC only with no up or downslope.

    I found advancing a little at a time gave the best results, it let me concentrate on each step (make a pool, dab the rod in, retract the rod while keeping it in the argon, advance the torch by half a dime repeat) I found this video very helpful - his "arc too long" weld looks a lot like yours. Maybe doing a lap joint would be easier than drilling on flat plate too, has a good line to follow and it is good practice for doing lap joints.


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    Cheers Roadsailing, I'll try your method next, forming the puddle, dabbing, then moving the torch. It makes sense as a beginner method, when I'm trying to coordinate lots of things.

    And I'm watching the video you linked now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    Cheers Roadsailing, I'll try your method next, forming the puddle, dabbing, then moving the torch. It makes sense as a beginner method, when I'm trying to coordinate lots of things.

    And I'm watching the video you linked now.
    dunno if it is just a beginner method, it's kinda what he does in the vid. also I always rest my torch hand on the bench/whatever, I found that helped a lot. TIG gloves (or anything thinner than welders oven mittens) helps too.

  10. #100
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    Yeah, that's not the beginner method, that's the "all the time" method. The torch only advances with the puddle, the puddle doesn't get dragged by the torch. You have to slow up, wait for your puddle, then dip the rod, let it melt in, advance puddle, dip rod, advance puddle...so on and such.



    The above weld is 1.6mm steel tube, done with no filler, at 10A. Even that felt a little hot.

    Where's your ground clamp at? is it getting hot when you weld, or the connections on the torch and the front of the machine? You can loose a lot of power in a loose/dirty setscrew connector.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    Yeah, that's not the beginner method, that's the "all the time" method. The torch only advances with the puddle, the puddle doesn't get dragged by the torch. You have to slow up, wait for your puddle, then dip the rod, let it melt in, advance puddle, dip rod, advance puddle...so on and such.



    The above weld is 1.6mm steel tube, done with no filler, at 10A. Even that felt a little hot.

    Where's your ground clamp at? is it getting hot when you weld, or the connections on the torch and the front of the machine? You can loose a lot of power in a loose/dirty setscrew connector.
    no image bro, imgur still works.

    speaking of connections I need to fix the earth clamp on my cheapo inverter arc, only half of the cable is connected as it looks like that is all that would fit in the crimp. might splurge and buy a proper one to replace the pressed tin alligator clip.

  12. #102
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    Getting your self setup in a comfortable position, and that is comfortable through out the length of the run makes a big difference . I have both my elbows on the table so I'm as stable as possible (if sitting) or hands on table/ work piece if standing.
    That's all I can really add as xnke and everyone have covered the rest.

  13. #103
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    New AC/DC TIG option - cheaper CIG FYI



    I know the unitig torch at work has a dial on it which controls the amperage. Can turn it off on the settings if you donít like bumping it, I personally like using them as it lets me quickly adjust it without going to the machine
    Last edited by bang chong; 30-01-18 at 03:04 AM.

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    Guys, thanks so much for all your advice.

    RS, I've got thin leather riggers gloves for the TIG. And I see what you and Xnke mean about the torch technique, the bloke in the video is so smooth it looks like a continuous movement at first glance.

    Xnke, my ground clamp is on the table, it's not getting hot, I tried clamping it direct to the job, that made no difference. I will recheck the connections on the machine.

    Euro, I've got a pretty good seating position, I'm using the edge of the table as a guide and rest for my hands.

    BC, I'll hit up that MillerWelds site, thanks for the link. My torch has a dial too, but I tried it on 0, tried it on 10, and it makes no difference.

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    According to Miller that 90A should be right-I need to check the calibration of my welder's display I guess!
    Last edited by Xnke; 30-01-18 at 10:25 AM.

  16. #106
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    Travel speed vs amps also determines heat input. You can weld 3mm at 150a if you move quick enough. At 50 you'll be sitting there waiting for the puddle but it will still weld.

    Another trick i heard was to push a 20c coin around with the tungsten, the tighter the arc the better everything works (arc shape, gas coverage, heat input).

    This was one of my first efforts on dc.

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    Very nice Jeff, I have some work to do to catch up!

    I'm not sure I understand about the 20 cent piece, how would that work without ending up in the weld puddle?

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    You do it cold, just playing with the torch. trying to keep it just barely pinned between the work piece and the tip of the tungsten. Another good practice trick is to walk a weld puddle with no filler across flat plate, keeping the tightest arc you can and trying to draw the narrowest line that penetrates the plate rather than just the surface. You want to look for the weld puddle to overlap, make it look just like you were adding filler. This helps get the torch hand motion down, then you add filler rod to the mix and work at it until you can keep your bead width equal to the thickness of the base material-this is really good practice for welding tube and sheet butt welds. (smallest heat affected zone, lowest amount of warpage)

    Throughout all of this, keep cutting your welds through and checking cross sections so you can see what you're getting while you learn. Butt, lap, fillet, outside corner, cut through all of them and look at your work from the inside so you really get a feel for what is full penetration, what's half penetration, good tie-in, root and corner cracking, etc.

    Cut with a saw, not an abrasive, and you can polish it up with some sandpaper on a plate to get it good and flat. Etch with a little white vinegar if you want to see grain structure, it's pretty cool to see how things cool and crystallize in the weld zone. Not really informative without some background in metallurgy but it's informative and neat to see and learn what it looks like.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    You do it cold, just playing with the torch. trying to keep it just barely pinned between the work piece and the tip of the tungsten. Another good practice trick is to walk a weld puddle with no filler across flat plate, keeping the tightest arc you can and trying to draw the narrowest line that penetrates the plate rather than just the surface. You want to look for the weld puddle to overlap, make it look just like you were adding filler. This helps get the torch hand motion down, then you add filler rod to the mix and work at it until you can keep your bead width equal to the thickness of the base material-this is really good practice for welding tube and sheet butt welds. (smallest heat affected zone, lowest amount of warpage)

    Throughout all of this, keep cutting your welds through and checking cross sections so you can see what you're getting while you learn. Butt, lap, fillet, outside corner, cut through all of them and look at your work from the inside so you really get a feel for what is full penetration, what's half penetration, good tie-in, root and corner cracking, etc.

    Cut with a saw, not an abrasive, and you can polish it up with some sandpaper on a plate to get it good and flat. Etch with a little white vinegar if you want to see grain structure, it's pretty cool to see how things cool and crystallize in the weld zone. Not really informative without some background in metallurgy but it's informative and neat to see and learn what it looks like.
    Got it, thanks Xnke, will give these tips a try and report back.

  20. #110
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    And watch ALL of the weld.com and weldingtipsandtricks videos on youtube. I find Jody's vids relaxing these days haha. He's the most qualified of the YouTube welders, pipe welding, aircraft component welding, weld inspector etc.

    Other things:

    - fresh lense protectors inside and out on the helmet

    - play with the darkness on the helmet, you need to be able to see the puddle.

    - wipe everything with acetone. Bunnings do 1l for $10 or 500ml for $9...

    - dont try to weld through a contaminated tungsten, just stop and change out or regrind.

    -Have a pack of preground tungstens ready to go.


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  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by da9jeff View Post
    And watch ALL of the weld.com and weldingtipsandtricks videos on youtube. I find Jody's vids relaxing these days haha. He's the most qualified of the YouTube welders, pipe welding, aircraft component welding, weld inspector etc.

    Other things:

    - fresh lense protectors inside and out on the helmet

    - play with the darkness on the helmet, you need to be able to see the puddle.

    - wipe everything with acetone. Bunnings do 1l for $10 or 500ml for $9...

    - dont try to weld through a contaminated tungsten, just stop and change out or regrind.

    -Have a pack of preground tungstens ready to go.


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    Cheers Jeff. The wife is really starting to get the shits with me watching welding videos on Youtube in bed every night, as I slowly work my way though both of those channels.

    Good tip on the lenses and protectors, I'm having trouble seeing where I'm running the bead, which is why it's wandering around a bit. Will try a lighter shade. I've given up on my automatic helmet, it seems to get confused and flicks on and off.

    And I've got my $10 bottle of Bunnings acetone, and have a few pre-sharpened tungstens lying on the table ready to go.

  22. #112
    Registered User bang chong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da9jeff View Post
    And watch ALL of the weld.com and weldingtipsandtricks videos on youtube. I find Jody's vids relaxing these days haha. He's the most qualified of the YouTube welders, pipe welding, aircraft component welding, weld inspector etc.

    Other things:

    - fresh lense protectors inside and out on the helmet

    - play with the darkness on the helmet, you need to be able to see the puddle.

    - wipe everything with acetone. Bunnings do 1l for $10 or 500ml for $9...

    - dont try to weld through a contaminated tungsten, just stop and change out or regrind.

    -Have a pack of preground tungstens ready to go.


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    Mr Tig is a pretty ordinary welder. Read his comments on one of his videos on how to weld thin stainless.


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    Gas Turbine enthusiast da9jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bang chong View Post
    Mr Tig is a pretty ordinary welder. Read his comments on one of his videos on how to weld thin stainless.


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    His vids put me to sleep most of the time. Bob Moffat is good but mostly does pipe videos. Pretty sure moffat is weld.com also?

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  24. #114
    Registered User bang chong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    Cheers Jeff. The wife is really starting to get the shits with me watching welding videos on Youtube in bed every night, as I slowly work my way though both of those channels.

    Good tip on the lenses and protectors, I'm having trouble seeing where I'm running the bead, which is why it's wandering around a bit. Will try a lighter shade. I've given up on my automatic helmet, it seems to get confused and flicks on and off.

    And I've got my $10 bottle of Bunnings acetone, and have a few pre-sharpened tungstens lying on the table ready to go.
    My speedglas 9100xxi is amazing in regards to seeing. Anyway I have a cheap auto darkening helmet that I use as a spare and it does flicker. Iíve found if you turn the sensitivity up all the way it sorts it out.

    Anyway I suggest a good helmet as you only have one set of eyes

  25. #115
    Registered User bang chong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da9jeff View Post
    His vids put me to sleep most of the time. Bob Moffat is good but mostly does pipe videos. Pretty sure moffat is weld.com also?

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    Whoever this guy is

  26. #116
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    Never been flashed with my $80 weldskill shitter. Am looking to upgrade to something with a bigger window. Sensitivity to max and just play with the darkness.

    Thats mr tig. Bob Moffat from cowley (?) College also does vids through weld.com, he's more of a pipe guy so does a lot of stick and tig pipe welding.

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    Last edited by da9jeff; 30-01-18 at 03:27 PM.
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    First attempt at stainless. Prep was hopeless, fuck I need a linishal. About a 2-3mm gap to fill in outside, inside corners flush.

    Much more practice needed and a stool/some blocks etc yo get wrist coordinated and resting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosshoggett View Post
    If your planing to drive this on the road and enjoy it, id suggest a second opinion, someone with a history in Australian Rally or Fink River . If your just playing dyno comps. Then ok

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    also trying to perfect some 4t settings and save them for various sizes. But really struggling to adjust my grip to rotate dial for amp control. Parker SGT26 suregrip torch with gas lense, anyone find a pedal works better for learning?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosshoggett View Post
    If your planing to drive this on the road and enjoy it, id suggest a second opinion, someone with a history in Australian Rally or Fink River . If your just playing dyno comps. Then ok

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    also trying to perfect some 4t settings and save them for various sizes. But really struggling to adjust my grip to rotate dial for amp control. Parker SGT26 suregrip torch with gas lense, anyone find a pedal works better for learning?
    I think starting off with a pedal is a good idea. I learnt on full amps(because of my boss) so I got used to visually seeing how many amps I needed to weld with(if that makes sense). Also it allows you to taper right off so you arenít even pooling the metal. It can over complicate things though for the beginner.

    I do find now welding without one is a lot easier but do find myself using one when the time comes

  30. #120
    Registered User bang chong's Avatar
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    And when I mean full amps I mean amps set to full and controlled by my foot with how much is needed. Opposed to setting the amps about 10-15amps more than what you need


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