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Thread: Electric turbo?

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    Electric turbo?

    Does anyone know of any successful attempts to replace the turbine section of a turbo with an electric motor? I'm not talking about those gay computer fans. I'm talking a real compressor with a powerful high speed electric motor.

    Does anyone know how much turbine shaft HP is required and at what RPM? Say for small/medium sized turbo to produce meaningful boost on a 2-3L engine? Roughly of course.

    Something like a ball bearing RB25 turbo might be easily converted due to ball bearings being easily lubricated. Jam a motor like this on it? https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ner_Motor.html It produces 5.8KW. I'm guessing power would be on the low side of what would be required, but that should be enough to get some actual boost? Looks like they might not spin fast enough though...

    Last edited by 2JZR31; 23-05-13 at 10:02 PM.
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    Registered User E-Z's Avatar
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    I believe hypergear turbos were successfull
    caprice nugget.

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    Down with ma homies Greg Rust's Avatar
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    What's the power draw and how long can it run for at that rate of that motor?
    xw Falcon 393 full race cam, NGK spark plugs.

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    Meh
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    Depending on the size of the turbo you need a good 30,000 - 40,000 rpm to make the turbo start to produce useful boost. That's a fair bit for an electric motor that has enough power to spin the turbo that fast.
    I'd thought about it before and figured something like a sprag clutch might be the go.
    But it's far better just to make the engine larger and match the turbo to suit.

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    Electric turbos won't work for many reasons at tech we worked out a turbo powered by a motor would chew so much amps the alternator would need to be so large you end up loosing too much power from case grounding and conversion losses.

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    The best theory I have come up with (which I am reluctant to share) is a compound turbine on the back of the engine and a supercharger on the front the power gain made by the turbine will alleviate the losses of the supercharger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynoryder View Post
    The best theory I have come up with (which I am reluctant to share) is a compound turbine on the back of the engine and a supercharger on the front the power gain made by the turbine will alleviate the losses of the supercharger.
    So a really crappy jet engine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billzilla View Post
    So a really crappy jet engine?
    Yea but it has to convert the energy to a transmission that varies on output a lot quicker than a aircraft or ship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynoryder View Post
    Electric turbos won't work for many reasons at tech we worked out a turbo powered by a motor would chew so much amps the alternator would need to be so large you end up loosing too much power from case grounding and conversion losses.
    I disagree. This is how I would do it.

    On a street car the turbo would only be on for a small percentage of the time. The alternator would not be required to produce all the power needed to run the turbo. You could tune it to only boost up at over 75% throttle, which would not be often. You would upgrade your battery to a lithium which is far more efficient than a lead acid and will have no probs dishing out huge amps. The power to drive the turbo would come mostly from the battery which would then be recharged by the alternator over time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billzilla View Post
    So a really crappy jet engine?
    LOL, well said sir!

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    MacGuyver stockymcstock's Avatar
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    You'd need a small gearbox to get the shaft speed up around 80,000rpm I think. Easy enough to do. Don't need a giant alternator because turbo only needs to run for brief periods you numpty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billzilla View Post
    Depending on the size of the turbo you need a good 30,000 - 40,000 rpm to make the turbo start to produce useful boost. That's a fair bit for an electric motor that has enough power to spin the turbo that fast.
    I'd thought about it before and figured something like a sprag clutch might be the go.
    But it's far better just to make the engine larger and match the turbo to suit.
    RC motors have the power. They are pumping out some serious KW. The one I linked has a bigger brother which does something like 8kw. Prob is RPM is not high enough. However I have only just started looking. These are for helicopters. I think maybe the "hotliner" sailplane ones might rev higher.

    I would try to avoid a gearbox if possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    No I'm Not Shonky Shonky's Avatar
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    Good luck getting that much power too from regular electrics.

    5800W is 480A at 12V... (ignoring you also need to step it up to ~40V at the lower 130A - same power required though)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rust View Post
    What's the power draw and how long can it run for at that rate of that motor?
    The motor I linked will put out 4KW continuous. At 12V it will be something like 350amps!
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2JZR31 View Post
    The motor I linked will put out 4KW continuous. At 12V it will be something like 350amps!
    So you want to spend shit loads on li batterys to just get a little boost now and again may as well use kers.

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    Boob dude to4garret's Avatar
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    Some of those big KW RC motors run 48v LiPO 120AMP+, just have a bank of those charging off the cars normal electrics when not in use.

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    Down with ma homies Greg Rust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2JZR31 View Post

    The motor I linked will put out 4KW continuous. At 12V it will be something like 350amps!
    Far out that's a pretty high demand. Might be possible if you convert to 24v
    xw Falcon 393 full race cam, NGK spark plugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shonky View Post
    Good luck getting that much power too from regular electrics.

    5800W is 480A at 12V... (ignoring you also need to step it up to ~40V at the lower 130A - same power required though)
    Regular electrics? If people can put them in a RC plane why would it be impossible elsewhere? This would be one of the simplest hurdles to overcome in this project I imagine.

    Just off the top of my head. Run a dedicated lithium bank @ 48V or whatever is needed with an RC brushless motor controller. This bank is to be charged via a 12V charge controller. Might get expensive though...
    Last edited by 2JZR31; 25-05-13 at 06:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by to4garret View Post
    Some of those big KW RC motors run 48v LiPO 120AMP+, just have a bank of those charging off the cars normal electrics when not in use.
    Cost of this bank? I know these are coming down in price all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynoryder View Post
    So you want to spend shit loads on li batterys to just get a little boost now and again may as well use kers.
    Well people are paying 10K "just to get a little bit of boost every now and then" on cars like the 86...
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2JZR31 View Post
    Regular electrics? If cunts can put them in a RC plane why would it be impossible elsewhere? This would be one of the simplest hurdles to overcome in this project I imagine.

    Just off the top of my head. Run a dedicated lithium bank @ 40V or whatever is needed with s RC brushless motor controller. This bank is to charged via a 12V charge controller. Might get expensive though...
    You need to remember that in a plane the motor is not always loaded so it might only see full current for short bursts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2JZR31 View Post
    Well people are paying 10K "just to get a little bit of boost every now and then" on cars like the 86...
    If you are referring to superchargers and turbos they are more of a constant power on tap with no limits. Except fuel tank size.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynoryder View Post
    You need to remember that in a plane the motor is not always loaded so it might only see full current for short bursts.
    You need to remember that in a car the motor is not always loaded so it might only see full current for short bursts.

    Plus, what was the point of that post anyway? Did you even have a point?
    Last edited by 2JZR31; 23-05-13 at 10:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynoryder View Post
    If you are referring to superchargers and turbos they are more of a constant power on tap with no limits. Except fuel tank size.
    It wont be the best solution for a track car. But will be fine for street and drag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2JZR31 View Post
    You need to remember that in a car the motor is not always loaded so it might only see full current for short bursts.

    The momentum to spin a compressor wheel to speed for a brief period will be immense also why the fuck would you want it to only come on at wot? The compressor wheel would be costing you power if it was not powered so it would be dicking about at low speed while you are driving costing you power and fuel then when it does come on it will draw so much power it is not funny just to get upto speed let alone the cost to maintain speed.
    Last edited by Rdyno; 23-05-13 at 10:48 PM.

  26. #26
    Down with ma homies Greg Rust's Avatar
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    What about if you used a series wound motor with cap start cap run, then it would spin up farken quick. Maximum torque at zero rpm.
    xw Falcon 393 full race cam, NGK spark plugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynoryder View Post
    The momentum to spin a compressor wheel to speed for a brief period will be immense also why the fuck would you want it to only come on at wot? The compressor wheel would be costing you power if it was not powered so it would be dicking about at low speed while you are driving costing you power and fuel then when it does come on it will draw so much power it is not funny just to get upto speed let alone the cost to maintain speed.
    You could have any setting for it to come on that you want. The "momentum" would be half that of a normal turbo since there is no turbine wheel. It would probably be set at a very low power level most of the time so its always partially up to speed. This would not require much power at all. The power requirements only go through the roof when boost is being produced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rust View Post
    What about if you used a series wound motor with cap start cap run, then it would spin up farken quick. Maximum torque at zero rpm.
    I'm not sure a regular motor would put out enough power for this?? I would like to hear from some experts on electric motors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2JZR31 View Post
    The "momentum" would be half that of a normal turbo since there is no turbine wheel.
    The driven (depends if looking at engine or turbo itself) side would be the stator which would weigh considerably more.
    Last edited by Rdyno; 23-05-13 at 11:05 PM.

  30. #30
    Boob dude to4garret's Avatar
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    One of these would do it.

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_motor.html

    Not sure how many of these would be needed,

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html

    Don't worry about a speed controller, just use a big relay and make sure it's all fused properly.

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