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Thread: Shitbox Soarer street/track - project sixty second slushbox???

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  1. #1
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    Shitbox Soarer street/track - project sixty second slushbox???

    Bought this thing about a year ago now for $4K. Whacked on a cheap set of 18s and Tein S-tech lowered coils and drove it to/from work. Eventually got the itch to have another bit of a speed around a racetrack, and as it was either this thing or the diesel GQ Patrol, I took the Soarer.

    It's done a few track days now at QR and Lakeside, with a best of 64.9 at both tracks, with frustrating open diff and normal street tyres. But the data from the GPS lap timer suggests to me that it could go alright with a few mods, so I thought I'd start a thread to track its progress. The rather ambitious goal is sub-sixty seconds at either or both these tracks, with minimal mods. That's 5seconds I need to find. But even if it runs a 60, I'll be very happy!

    It will probably also get a go at Mt Cotton, where I reckon the auto (even standard) should be an advantage over manual boxes...

    I'll get a video of it's PB lap up soon, but here's a pic going under the bridge at Lakeside a couple of weeks ago:


    I've started buying few bits and pieces for it and the first mod has already been done. Replaced the hateful open diff with a factory torsen LSD. Think I might take it back to the track just like that to quantify just how much time that is worth on its own before I change everything else.

    Obviously semi slicks will be needed. And I'm not forking out $2k on semis for a $4k car! So cheap ebay specials from Taleb/StGeorge got the nod. 245/40 R18 Nitto NT01 for $299ea. Definitely not the fastest tyre around, but hopefully enough to get the target time. They're not too old - end of 2011, and still look and feel fresh. I had my Supra's old Rays Gram Light 57C lying around to fit them to - good thing nobody bought them when I advertised them.

    I bought coilovers as well - because the thing already bottoms out the front left three times a lap on normal street tyres. Once on a bump in the middle of Carousel, and on two bumps while turning in under the bridge. Adding more grip with semis is only going to make matters worse. So it needs significantly higher spring rates than the Tein S-tech coils which are variable rate 7.3-13 and 3.2-6.7kg. I thought about adding spring rubbers and swaybars, but by the time that's done, you'd be more than half way to a set of coilovers and may not eliminate the problem anyway. So I bought some BC BR coilovers - they seem to have a decent reputation for cheapies, and have the base height adjustment. My previous Supra was very sensitive to ride height adjustments. They come with 14/10 spring rates. Not 100% sure what springs the Supra had, but it had Tein Flex coilovers which are supposed to come with 14/8 according to a bit of googling. So we'll see how it goes. Springs are cheap anyway.

    Also high on the list is a seat - it's hard enough staying put in the standard seat just on the crappy street tyres, so this is pretty much mandatory. The standard seat also seems to delay informing you about what the car is doing by a fraction of a second, which is a bit disconcerting. I have a fixed back race seat lying around from another project, so I'll probably fit that before the next track day. Getting my fat arse lower will probably help lap times by itself anyway!

    oh, I also bought a HKS SLD. They're cheap and the thing hits the speed cut before turning into the kink and almost gets there on the run down to hungry as well, hitting 174kph. On semis it will certainly be topping 180 down there too. It might even hit 180 just with the extra drive of the LSD out of carousell still on street tyres. And while it's probably worth SFA in terms of lap time it also cost SFA, and I want to be able to compare it's top speeds to my old 180SX.

    That's it for now. The next lot of sprints at Lakeside are end of June - early July. LSD, seat and SLD are probably all I'll do before the next track day with, still on the normal street tyres. Then fit the coilovers and semis for the next day amd see how far I've still got to go to the minute mark! lol Might be totally unrealistic for all I know - the old Aristo only ran mid 62s on the 180SX's semis, so 60sec is fairly ambitious... but as the mythbusters say, failure is always an option!

    Lakeside progress summary:

    Date: 29/11/2012
    Time: 1:05.96
    Mods: Tein S-Tech springs

    Date: 15/05/2013
    Time: 1:04.92
    Mods: Tein S-Tech springs cut 20mm lower
    Last edited by hrd; 27-06-13 at 03:20 PM. Reason: added summary

  2. #2
    Registered User Milkman Don's Avatar
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    I'm keen on these sort of threads, rather than throw 11ty thousand dollars in one go take the time and do it in steps. Helps learning the car and your driving.

    What do these things weigh up with driver, I'm sure they would benefit from a gas axe diet?
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  3. #3
    Opinionated Cunt perthdrivers.txt's Avatar
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    loads of shit you can do to make these trackable without much cash outlay, you will quickly find like Supras you cant get enough camber/castor in the front, slotting the crossmember LCA pickup points helps, costs nothing

    proper seats and a small steering wheel make it much easier to punt around, and a little black box to manualise the auto will work very nicely. just plumb a cooler in to keep temps under control and the box will take it no worries

    Assuming its a TT and depending on spec, weight will be around the 1550-1600kg mark, front seats (if full electric ones) will account for a good 50kg of that alone
    Last edited by perthdrivers.txt; 29-05-13 at 04:14 PM.

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  4. #4
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    yeah, I've been meaning to fit a trans cooler. Really should put that on the list to do before the next track day. Thanks for the tip about the x-member/lower arms.
    and you're right, it weighed in at 1560kg (without driver) at the local weighbridge. No gas-axe diet though, this is going to remain 100% streetable, just tracked for fun.

    video from a couple of weeks ago at Lakeside. First lap of the video is the fastest 64.9
    Last edited by hrd; 30-05-13 at 08:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Registered User Marlin's Avatar
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    Good shit Harry, watching with interest mate!

  6. #6
    TRD-RT81
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    This is relevant to my interests!

    one of these and a BIG transcooler...

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/290602302639
    Last edited by TRD-RT81; 29-05-13 at 08:16 PM.

  7. #7
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    'Race' seat is in now. Just a cheap, fixed back, steel framed, ADR approved SAAS seat ($280). Not very high sided, but that's good for street use. Bought a cheap frame off ebay from NZ (JZA80 Supra frame, which also fits Soarer - $145) and originally mounted it with some universal slides that came with the seat, but decided to get the seating position as low as possible so replaced the slides with some 6mm flat steel instead. Fixed position obviously, but it's nice and low now. Made it a bit of a pita to get to one mounting bolt in the car, even with a flexi-headed ratchet spanner, but it's in now.
    My original seat was only electric lumbar support, manual adjustment for everything else. But it still weighed 35kg. I forgot to weigh the new seat before I threw it back in, but it would have to save about 25kg I reckon!
    The seat has also made the car more comfortable on the street - the standard seat gave you a an extra bounce over ever decent bump you hit - made the thing feel like the shocks had no rebound damping or something, which I was willing to believe at the time because it's just running cut Tein springs on the standard shocks. Now the car feels right again! So I'll probably replace the passenger seat soon as well, to fix that issue there as well and save a bit more weight.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Needed new brake pads as well, so I replaced them just with normal Bendix front and Maxi Stop rears. In my experience, you simply don't need anything special for track days on these Toyotas. I've been running it with whatever pads it had when I bought it - no problems. Flushed the fluid while I was at it. Again, just normal DOT4 fluid.

    I've entered a Lakeside sprint this Saturday afternoon, so I'll find out what the factory Torsen LSD is worth to lap times on the normal street tyres - if it stops raining... It certainly felt like it lost heaps of time single pegging out of Karussell, Eastern Loop and Hungry. I'll go out on a limb and say I'm expecting it to be somewhere just over a second, so it should break into the 63s (previous best is 64.9).
    Last edited by hrd; 27-06-13 at 03:26 PM.

  8. #8
    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    Let me guess?
    64.37!

    Congrats on the pb.
    How were the conditions and how was the LSD?

  9. #9
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    yeah, your guess was better than mine! I am surprised it was only 0.55sec faster, but that's all I could do. Conditions were good for the first two sessions - cool and dry. Maybe being a little cautious of the edge of the track than I normally am, but nothing that cost any real time on the good laps. I got the 64.3 in the first session, after being held up by a mate running in some new tyres, and before getting some brake fade from the new pads. So I was pretty sure I'd go a bit faster as the day went on, but the second session only netted a few 64.4s. It rained heavily before our third session and we just packed up at that point. The Achillies tyres on the back are not exactly great in the wet, so I wasn't real keen on going back out.
    Brakes didn't fade again after the first session, so hopefully they're just one of those pads that need a good cooking before they are happy with track work.

    LSD made it so much better to drive, allowing you to actually do something to efect the car's behaviour with the throttle in the longer corners, but also introduced some mid corner push at times which it didn't have before. The middle of the carousell was the one place I really noticed that, just where you're trying to get it to come back in to the second apex. Everywhere else it felt far better. It was really nice to be able to drive up the hill out of hungry instead of single pegging the whole way!

    The seat was great too - nice not to have to hang onto the wheel, or slouch in the seat with a helmet on.

    I'm thinking of fitting the HKS SLD this arvo and maybe go for another run at the midweek sprints on Wednesday. Looks like there's only 3 wires to intercept plus power and earth...

    some pics of the day here: http://www.trackphotos.com.au/p179869144

    Lakeside progress summary:

    Date: 29/11/2012
    Time: 1:05.96
    Mods: Tein S-Tech springs, 18" street tyres (Federal and Achillies)

    Date: 15/05/2013
    Time: 1:04.92
    Mods: Tein S-Tech springs cut 20mm lower

    Date: 29/06/2013
    Time: 1:04.37
    Mods: factory Torsen LSD

  10. #10
    TRD-RT81
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    T1 or T2 torsen?

  11. #11
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    dunno mate, it's the OEM optional torsen whatever type they are.

    SLD is in now. Wait and see what this weather is doing for Wednesday...

  12. #12
    TRD-RT81
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrd View Post
    dunno mate, it's the OEM optional torsen whatever type they are.
    http://planetsoarer.com/diff/diff.htm

  13. #13
    Brown Cunt MR-PUNANNY's Avatar
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    nice one dude.

    Tein S Techs are not gonna do you any favours!! Needs stiffer coilovers pronto.....I just happen to have about 10 sets that may suit your needs :P

    And I hear alot of talk about slotting crossmember, any pics/how to on this???
    Quote Originally Posted by The Property Guru
    don't haemophrodites generally have tiny wangs?
    Quote Originally Posted by oxy View Post
    No, that's asians
    A80 Supra
    80 Landcruiser

  14. #14
    Opinionated Cunt perthdrivers.txt's Avatar
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    check my build thread Shane

    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...#post841276504

    file out the bits i highlighted in red so that the camber bolts can be set to the fully "out" position.
    Last edited by perthdrivers.txt; 01-07-13 at 10:31 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I feel that rules are important as without rules there is no cheating and cheating is a vital part of drag racing.
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    What has happened to PF? It seems to be diesel love now days. Maybe the name should be changed to Particulate Forums.
    3x1UZ+1x2UR...

  15. #15
    Brown Cunt MR-PUNANNY's Avatar
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    wow, and thats it?? Id be happy if I can get about 4deg
    Quote Originally Posted by The Property Guru
    don't haemophrodites generally have tiny wangs?
    Quote Originally Posted by oxy View Post
    No, that's asians
    A80 Supra
    80 Landcruiser

  16. #16
    Opinionated Cunt perthdrivers.txt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-PUNANNY View Post
    wow, and thats it?? Id be happy if I can get about 4deg
    You might just, depending on how much castor you want as well (have to compromise)

    Once you do this you'll find the head of the bolt itself (and the washer/plate thing on it) are the next limitation, suitable off-the-shelf cap head bolts and rectangular plates to keep them in place would probably free up another degree or two, but i havnt got around to trying that yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I feel that rules are important as without rules there is no cheating and cheating is a vital part of drag racing.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfturbomax View Post
    What has happened to PF? It seems to be diesel love now days. Maybe the name should be changed to Particulate Forums.
    3x1UZ+1x2UR...

  17. #17
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I ran a 63.79 yesterday. Only change was the SLD, which is pretty clear in the above speed chart. That looks like it was responsible for most of the time gain.

    The brakes were perfect this time, no sign of fade at all. That one good cooking they got last time seems to have sorted them out. The Bendix fronts don't dust much at all. The least brake dust I've ever had after a track day.

    I managed to improve my driving through carousell too, by not trying to get greedy with the throttle in the less important mid-corner phase, and focussing instead on a nice smooth line so you can get on the power as early as possible exiting that turn. Pretty pleased with that. I was also trying to focus on a wider entry to Hungry and better exits from Eastern Loop, but I'm not sure I can take credit for the slight gains in the graph there. I pretty much put all that down to 'normal variance' for my driving, just like the lost speed on the entry to Eastern Loop, and the difference in Shell Corner.

    I'm pretty happy with the 63.7 on normal street tyres. It will probably be September before I get another chance to drive Lakeside, which is part of the reason I did these two events so close together. The coilovers will be going in next. Not sure if I'll try the street tyres with the coilovers or just go straight to the semis...

    Lakeside progress summary:

    Date: 29/11/2012
    Time: 1:05.96
    Mods: Tein S-Tech springs, 18" street tyres (Federal and Achillies)

    Date: 15/05/2013
    Time: 1:04.92 (-1.04s)
    Mods: Tein S-Tech springs cut 20mm lower

    Date: 29/06/2013
    Time: 1:04.37 (-0.55s)
    Mods: factory Torsen LSD

    Date: 03/07/2013
    Time: 1:03.79 (-0.58s)
    Mods: HKS SLD

  18. #18
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Speed comparison from the 64.3 LSD lap in blue vs the old open diff 64.9 in red.

    Front straight/Kink: I was trying to modulate the throttle near the 180kph speed cut instead of just repeatedly bashing it, but it looks like that was a fail. Too hard to do while going through the kink which scrubs off some speed. But the SLD is fitted now so I can't stuff that up next time!

    Carousell: the bit of push I complained about in the middle of Carousell shows up with a dip in speed as I left foot braked to get the nose pointed back in before immediately getting on the gas. That's definitely an area to focus on next time out, because you can see the open diff lap was already attempting to drive out of the turn at that stage, only dipping back down due to horrendous wheelspin while exiting the turn. No real surprise that the LSD got out of the turn faster than the open diff, but it should be better...

    Bridge: Doesn't really seem fair that the speed lines converge on the entry to the bridge. I don't even think of lifting there.
    And Vmax after the bridge was actually a little bit lower. Don't know what the story is there.

    Hungry: Exiting Hungry the road goes over a camber crest and previously it would just wheelspin up the hill no matter what. Now it gets good drive out of there and actually accelerated up the hill, so a big gain for the LSD.
    I did see some pics under brakes approaching Hungry too where I was almost a car width from the outside edge of the track at the turn-in for Hungry - probably why I was a bit slower this time. That is one of my weaknesses at Lakeside - not using all the road on the way in to Hungry. Too easy to be totally focussed on the apex of Hungry rather than where you actually are... Will try and improve there next time too.

    Eastern Loop is surprisingly not much different. It was an area I got bad wheelspin with the open diff, but with the LSD I was still struggling to put power down out of there - just that it's now sideways instead of single pegging. Which is at least more fun, even if it is no faster! Still a tick for the LSD in my books

    Shell corner onto the front straight looks like another handy gain from the LSD, in a place I didn't really expect it - the auto's in 3rd gear before turning in there but the open diff was still a factor, not even allowing it to hold the entry speed all the way through, let alone accelerate out of the turn.

    So it looks like there is a bit more time left.

    and thanks for the pics UZZ31. I'll add that to my list. I haven't even had a wheel alignment on this thing yet!

  19. #19
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    it's out of another JZZ30, which is T1 according to that guy.

  20. #20
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    I put the coilovers in the other weekend. Not real happy with the spring rates. My previous JZA80 Supra used 14/8kg and worked nicely on KU36 street tyres on the track. Most coilovers for these JZA80/JZZ30 also use 14/8 springs. The BC coilovers I bought came with 14/10kg.

    Front doesn't feel any stiffer than the Tein S-tech springs which were variable rate 7.3-13 (so I reckon I must have cut all the variable rate part off), and in fact it bottoms the front tyres out on the inner wheelarches more often now at the same ride height, so I guess the bump stops on the standard struts were coming into play. Anyway, it's going to need stiffer front springs, both for that and to balance out the stiffer 10kg rears these BC's use.

    Maintaining the same 14:8 ratio with the 10kg rear springs in these BC coilovers works out as 17.5kg front, but springs at these rates come in 1kg (or 50lb) increments. So the options are 17kg (950lb) or 18kg (1000lb). The last thing I want is to make it understeery, so 18kg is out. I also don't want to make it uncomfortable for the street, so I might err on the soft side with 16kg (900lb) instead, then add a swaybar later if needed.
    Last edited by hrd; 04-09-13 at 10:04 AM.

  21. #21
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    Just ordered 17kg front springs. For a few reasons. The tyres hit those inner arches pretty easily, so it will take a fair bit more spring rate to sort that out. 16kg is 14% stiffer, 17kg is 21% stiffer. And to try and maintain that 14/8 spring ratio my old Supra had, 17/10 is the closest to that without going over it and risk making it understeer. Also with a front swaybar being another $350, the "as cheaply as possible" motto of this whole exercise helped the decision to try and balance it with springs only. This way it's $150 rather than $500 extra spent on the shitbox. Not real happy that I need to spend money replacing the springs on a set of brand new coilovers to actually make them suitable for the car they are supposed to be made for though. At the pre-configured height (which is exactly the same as the cut Tiens were) they shouldn't hit the inner arch this easily/often. If Joe Blo bought a set and whacked them in, they'd very quickly wear through the main engine wiring loom which runs directly over the RF tyre. I relocated that back before I cut the Tiens.

    Next run at Lakeside is two weeks away Midweek sprints on the 18th

  22. #22
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    cunts sent me the wrong fucking springs! changed back to the stock shocks and cut Tein S-Tech springs so I can run at Lakeside on Wednesday. So the only change from last time will be the Nitto semis.

  23. #23
    Registered User 260BC's Avatar
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    See you at Lakeside on Wednesday Harry, racing with an auto is the ultimate in cool Nev has done a couple of things to the Zed, mainly to lower the back a bit and remove anti squat. Hope I've done the right thing.
    Richard's DatsunZ lappin LakesidZ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47OSh...&feature=g-upl

    “Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid shit.”
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    “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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    ― Napoleon Bonaparte

  24. #24
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    cool, see you there. We'll be in the same class too. I see you're working on the excuse already

  25. #25
    Opinionated Cunt perthdrivers.txt's Avatar
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    If you do end up getting a sway bar don't get a Whiteline, they're shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I feel that rules are important as without rules there is no cheating and cheating is a vital part of drag racing.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfturbomax View Post
    What has happened to PF? It seems to be diesel love now days. Maybe the name should be changed to Particulate Forums.
    3x1UZ+1x2UR...

  26. #26
    TRD-RT81
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    Quote Originally Posted by perthdrivers.txt View Post
    If you do end up getting a sway bar don't get a Whiteline, they're shit.
    besides the crap endlinks supplied that I dumped I had no problems with whiteline

  27. #27
    Registered User 260BC's Avatar
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    Harry in action, road tyres http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBm4DwsQLPw
    Richard's DatsunZ lappin LakesidZ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47OSh...&feature=g-upl

    “Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid shit.”
    ― Jim C. Hines

    “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
    ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan

    “Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets..”
    ― Napoleon Bonaparte

  28. #28
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    Jeez, that's from the first time I took the Soarer to Lakeside. It was pretty boaty back then.

    waste of time yesterday. Had to stop after the first session due to too much front tyre rubbing inner wheelarch and the wiring loom which was already tucked as far out of the way as possible. I was taking it pretty easy in the first session to scrub the new tyres in - no sliding at all from front or rear and gradually increasing the speed, so the time is pretty meaningless, but it was 1:03.87.
    Last edited by hrd; 21-09-13 at 06:48 AM.

  29. #29
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    New springs finally arrived yesterday - 16kg and the correct ID this time.
    Now I just have to dummy fit the shock on the car without the spring to see exactly how much longer bumpstops I need to prevent the tyre from ripping itself and the wiring loom apart. Then these BC coilovers should finally be useable for normal street driving in the car they were supposedly designed for!

    Not impressed with BC... Or the retailler (who I won't name yet) who don't seem even remotely interested in helping, other than selling me more stuff from BC to make them right!
    /rant.
    Last edited by hrd; 10-10-13 at 11:28 AM.

  30. #30
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    4hrs of fucking around measuring stuff, pulling apart, dummy fitting coilovers without springs and mocking up to ride height, more measuring, and general rooting around with various bumpstops collected from around the place measuring their compressed length in the vice. It needed roughly 34mm longer bumpstops! Nice work BC, you got pretty close there!. Ended up using some nice long progressive ones 64mm longer, which compress to about 40mm.

    I can't remember exactly how much higher it is with the new 16kg springs, it was something like 6 or 8mm, and I raised the rear a similar amount rather than lower the front back down.
    Also re-routed the wiring loom again and wrapped it all in heater hose as well for a bit of extra protection, but it should be out of the way now anyway.

    It feels better on the road with the 16kg fronts. Previously with the supplied 14/10 springs, it felt no stiffer at the front than the cut lowered springs, but the back felt noticeably firmer - it was pretty shit. Now the ride quality feels balanced. And not too firm by any means, still perfectly acceptable for street use. Haven't pushed the limits at all yet, so can't comment about handling balance. Probably won't get back out to Lakeside until the end of next month.

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