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Thread: 1jz-gte + ra28 = skids

  1. #421
    Registered User Justengt4's Avatar
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    What's the logic on wanting a dual pass?
    GT8
    1UZ Celica
    1.07 flat Wakefield Park

  2. #422
    Registered User GSRman's Avatar
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    dual pass for water... (originally typed message deleted)

    hmm - was probably dual pass for convenience of fittings - no reason you couldn't T-piece them and just parallel... that way when you have your superchilled water setup running you can run into the second half only.
    This is a post i wrote by mistake, which is nice...

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  3. #423
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justengt4 View Post
    What's the logic on wanting a dual pass?
    Sometimes it's nice to not cut extra holes in my Swiss cheese car just because, I was going to run the return fitting through the guard but if I don't have to I would rather not cut yet another hole. Might also help keep the speed up on the water flow through the intercooler?
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
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  4. #424
    Registered User Justengt4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _glenn_archer_ View Post
    Sometimes it's nice to not cut extra holes in my Swiss cheese car just because, I was going to run the return fitting through the guard but if I don't have to I would rather not cut yet another hole. Might also help keep the speed up on the water flow through the intercooler?
    Ok cool. If for fitment it would make sense....just checking to save you effort as there's no other gains to be had on the water circuit by going dual pass if you can get even flow thru the core single pass.
    GT8
    1UZ Celica
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  5. #425
    Registered User GSRman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justengt4 View Post
    Ok cool. If for fitment it would make sense....just checking to save you effort as there's no other gains to be had on the water circuit by going dual pass if you can get even flow thru the core single pass.
    I'm unsure, running the water in a direction opposite to air flow might make the back half of the cooler more efficient.

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  6. #426
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSRman View Post
    I'm unsure, running the water in a direction opposite to air flow might make the back half of the cooler more efficient.

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    Feeling unsure if it would make the second half more efficient or just make it heat soak faster (hot air hitting hotter side of cooling system and compounding the issue?) I think I would run it so hot air hits coldest part of the intercooler first

    I really hope this works...
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
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    200B wagon
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  7. #427
    I need more cylinders! nine2nine's Avatar
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    I single passed mine by welding two more fittings on the back, also upgraded to twin 1" lines running a Davies Craig 80l/min pump. Working on the theory quicker is better. Wish I could say how it works, but not going yet so csh.

    Hrt5l did have his working twin pass with 1" lines and 80min/min and it worked real well.

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  8. #428
    Registered User Justengt4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSRman View Post
    I'm unsure, running the water in a direction opposite to air flow might make the back half of the cooler more efficient.

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    If you have packaging/design constraints like most OEM stuff then dual pass and flow direction become important. As long as you have even flow across the core then all you need is a big enough pump and any other efficiency issue becomes moot really?
    Last edited by Justengt4; 13-03-18 at 01:47 PM.
    GT8
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    1.07 flat Wakefield Park

  9. #429
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _glenn_archer_ View Post
    Feeling unsure if it would make the second half more efficient or just make it heat soak faster (hot air hitting hotter side of cooling system and compounding the issue?) I think I would run it so hot air hits coldest part of the intercooler first

    I really hope this works...
    Consider one way the higher temperature differential makes heat transfer more efficient.
    Quote Originally Posted by ALLMTR View Post
    the theory is the fuel pump is one of the only things that can fuck out on a diesel

  10. #430
    Registered User GSRman's Avatar
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    Think about it this way - would you prefer air leaving the intercooler be in contact with the coldest supply of water - or the hottest part...

    (im staring at that gif way too long)

    I might be way off - but if you think of 2 copper pipes soldered together - and you are feeding 100deg coolant in one end - and 0 degree coolant in the other end of the other pipe - if all energy transfer that can take place happens - the coolant temps should effectively be opposite at the exit of the pipes.. but if they were entering the same end - they would both come out at 50deg.
    This is a post i wrote by mistake, which is nice...

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  11. #431
    Registered User dnegative's Avatar
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    Get Vito to chime in, he's the expert in this shit lol
    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Fuck I'm retarded

  12. #432
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    Single pass on the water circuit *should* provide a higher rate of heat transfer since it's a closed circuit (would help if the air side was dual pass since its open circuit tho). That being said, dual pass on the water may still work ok, and may even work better. Reason being, by removing that baffle you may slow down the water through the core causing a decrease in turbulence and greater "dead" zones on the extremities of the core, this can result in an overall decrease in heat transfer rate, especially if the pump isnt powerful enough.

    TLDR: heat transfer is hard and requires too much brain power to calculate this kind of shit, and you wont know how it works till you try it

  13. #433
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Life is currently getting in the way of me working on my car, only so much can be done on lunch brakes! And I have had a shitload on inbetween ice hockey finals and things that have been booked in for months just stacking up I need some actual DAYS to work on the car. I did however get a bit done late tonight.

    Tigged the custom tank I made onto the core.

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    Made the other tank a bit smaller (was 3.5" outlet and only needed to be 3" turns out I should measure more because I seem to have over looked a few measumenta this time around! Throttle body is like 2.75" OD anyway, ah well). Tapped some M6x1 threads into a bit of 10mm plate to make a mount onto my radiator support brace.
    Glued that on, will probably need at least 2 more mounts? One to the strut tower and other to the rad support but until the tanks had been modified/ put on I couldn't even think about brackets yet lol

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    Tacked the rough bit of 3" piping I had up for the intercooler to to throttle body pipe. Will have a silicone joiner on the upwards bend out of the intercooler and the proflow clamp for the throttle body.
    Starting to come together.

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    Still stuck on what to do for the heat exchanger pump (I have the one that came in the kit but it feels VERY under rated for the size of the cooler) if anyone in canberra has anything laying around and wants to help a brother out even for test fits and ideas? I'm open to ideas.

    Also still hurting my brain on the single / double flow / size of lines / bla bla bla
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
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  14. #434
    Registered User Justengt4's Avatar
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    The pumps that move the vol you want are pretty big....I have a surflow you can have a play with. Shoebox size pretty much
    GT8
    1UZ Celica
    1.07 flat Wakefield Park

  15. #435
    Registered User GSRman's Avatar
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    Lol no time to work on your car - have kids...


    I've used little tiny DC 'booster' pumps for ages - replaced one when it got noisy, otherwise no issue.

    How much water do you think the core holds? (Not including tanks) What does the pump flow?

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  16. #436
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    That pump flows 23L/min, should be plenty

    You're not too far off finishing it, looks like most of the hard yards are done.

  17. #437
    Registered User GSRman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foamy View Post
    That pump flows 23L/min, should be plenty

    You're not too far off finishing it, looks like most of the hard yards are done.
    so probably turning over the water in the core 50 times /min... plenty
    This is a post i wrote by mistake, which is nice...

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  18. #438
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Few more bits showed up today! Thermo tec Insulation tape (I expected it to be more but quality seems good and hopefully it makes a difference!) also the warrenty replacement oil pressure sensor for my SPEEDHUT gauge (first 2 got "lost" in transit) this time it was sent express with a tracking number... order made Tuesday and it was on my tool box by lunchtime today America -> Australia. (Aus post is a fucking joke)

    Also as I am an inquisitive creature I did a few tests on the small body water pump that came in the cooler kit and I must say, I pleasantly surprised at just how well it actually did!! Will probably upgrade to a larger Davis Craig or bosh unit at some point but for now I will be giving this one a red hot go.

    Basic set up to see how long it would take to pump 20L from one drum to the other with minimal restriction to flow and the battery voltage of a running car for power supply then measure current draw.

    Pump is rated at 23L a min.

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    Turned out to draw about 1.2A /1.8A depending on load (pumping from one drum to the other at ground level / pumping from ground level up about a meter onto the workbench)

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    Both test done around 13v /13.4V (Mazda 3 MPS sitting idling as power supply for my test).

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    Pumping on ground level with minimum restriction took roughly 47 seconds to pump 20L! Not bad I thought!

    So then replicate the test but this time with the second drum on the bench about a meter above the supply tank outlet, this took about 70 seconds to pump 20L still doing fairly well!

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    As you can see it's fairly pumping! No fire hose but didn't seem lacking that's for sure was confidence inspiring for the first incarnation anyway. (Bigger pumps are easily and readily available if I want to upgrade) .

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    Best step would be to see exactly how much it flows a min in the car (purely for interests sake and data / comparison later on if I do upgrade pumps).
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
    200B wagon
    LOW AND SLOW STOCKER

  19. #439
    Registered User dnegative's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as too fast a water speed but I think the returns from it drop like a stone pretty quickly not withstanding pumping losses and issues with high speed fluids.
    A lot of effort went into finding those pumps, they are the only ones out there that are affordable, quiet and not shit lol

    The heat exchanger efficiency is going to be the biggest contributing factor beyond the ambient temperature.
    Last edited by dnegative; 16-03-18 at 09:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Fuck I'm retarded

  20. #440
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnegative View Post
    A lot of effort went into finding those pumps, they are the only ones out there that are affordable, quiet and not shit lol.
    Quiet and not shit love it hahaha

    Looking forward to getting a GOOD chuck of tomorrow to play with the car! Things try to do tomorrow.

    #1. intercooler and it mounts finished.
    #2. Pipework from cooler to throttle body finished.
    #3. Die grind inside throttle body to ease transition of pipe size (pictures to follow).
    #4. Start on heat exchanger (removing baffles from condenser tanks and making inlets / outlets for coolant)
    #5. Mount heat exchanger and condenser to radiator properly.
    #6. Mount intercooler pump and plumb to cooler / exchanger.

    And so much more but I'll be happy if I can get a good chunk of that finished!
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
    200B wagon
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  21. #441
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Everything takes so god damn long to make haha

    Had to re-make the baffle that I removed... I decided to keep with the twin pass to try and keep up water speed in the core and less holes in the body is also good ;p

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    The plates are only temporary to try and stop excess heat from damaging the core while I was welding, just did multiple passes with low amperage to build it back up.

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    Everything is sooooo tight, trying to make everything fit and work together is proving difficult and time consuming!! Showing how close the coolant feed and return lines are to the turbo inlet.

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    I couldn't get some 19mm alloy pipe on short notice so I got the next available size up and then I had to turn down some fittings to weld into the larger pipe for the 19mm heater hose.

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    Had to remove the baffles from the condenser to turn it into a single pass "radiator" turned out to also be a pain in the ass lol and left some large holes to fully

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    Custom periscope needs a lick of paint but should do the trick?

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    Tiny wonder pump mounted.

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    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
    200B wagon
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  22. #442
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    Nice work!
    Quote Originally Posted by ALLMTR View Post
    the theory is the fuel pump is one of the only things that can fuck out on a diesel

  23. #443
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Thanks!

    I'm a little worried the engine rocking will try to brake the inlet side of the cooler off... but I have done what I can for now to try and stop that. Maybe one of the straight silicone pipes with a bulge in it would be better for the application but budget is shot and I'm running out of time as usual.

    Finished the intercooler today and tested it for water leaks (didn't have a spare pressure reg and or a dunk tank so fingers crossed it won't leak under pressure but it didn't leak just holding water).
    The photo dosent really do the lack of space any justice, it's tight!

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    Might even be able to run it up in the next few days I'm really keen to see how it goes!

    On a side note, anyone else set them selfs huge lists of shit to do in unrealistic timeframes and then get annoyed when you don't finish it all?

    I swear I am the king!!
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
    200B wagon
    LOW AND SLOW STOCKER

  24. #444
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _glenn_archer_ View Post
    On a side note, anyone else set them selfs huge lists of shit to do in unrealistic timeframes and then get annoyed when you don't finish it all?

    I swear I am the king!!
    Does 7 years of "i will have a turbo adub at toyota nationals" count? :P

  25. #445
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Modified the throttle body to take the proflow clamp this arvo and finished off the intake pipe tonight.

    Was surprised the clamp actually had a LOT more movement than expected! Like so much i might try and get an extra o ring on either side just to try and limit it a little.

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    Air temp sensor mounted to the under side of the boost pipe as seen here through the BOV v band mount.

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    Make a start on the mounts for the heat exchanger and condenser tomorrow.
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
    200B wagon
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  26. #446
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    that fuel line is looking a little worse for wear
    Quote Originally Posted by ALLMTR View Post
    the theory is the fuel pump is one of the only things that can fuck out on a diesel

  27. #447
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRD-MX62 View Post
    that fuel line is looking a little worse for wear
    Agreed, been replaced under warranty once but came with a new catalog that said only "fuel Vapor safe" when I replaced it all the individual we was fine, it was only the very outer layer that looked shithouse... apparently the RACEWORKS E85 safe hose pushlock is the goods. Also have a part number for some spiral wound German hydraulic hose that is also the goods!

    It's on the list of shit to do but not as high as the outside makes it look.

    DONT BUY AEROFLOW PUSHLOCK HOSE! for anything to do with fuel or coolant... in fact it's just shithouse! Don't use the shit at all! I regret using it on my car deeply, I wanted a more factory "look" than braid shouldn't have ever touched it tho.
    Last edited by _glenn_archer_; 19-03-18 at 11:02 PM.
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
    200B wagon
    LOW AND SLOW STOCKER

  28. #448
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    I'm going to try some of this on the soarer... http://www.gatesaustralia.com.au/pro...ction-hose-mpi
    Quote Originally Posted by ALLMTR View Post
    the theory is the fuel pump is one of the only things that can fuck out on a diesel

  29. #449
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    First stuff I got from aeroflow was gates hose (don't think it was the green series stuff tho) but the second lot was this shit.

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    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
    200B wagon
    LOW AND SLOW STOCKER

  30. #450
    Registered User _glenn_archer_'s Avatar
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    After installing the proflow clamp and finding it had a lot more movement than I had initially expected I tryed to put some extra O rings on the outside of the original ones but still within the clamp body, it worked! Removed a lot of the play and actually feels like it's going to seal better also! The sleeve slips over the O ring section and then the clamp covers the whole lot and holds it form pulling apart.

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    Made up a turbo intake pipe that puts the filter under the intercooler.

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    VERY BUSY once everything is in place, this sucks balls to get the filter out now. Not like the Car is doing a massive amount of KMs but making serviceable components hard to get to is a dick move...

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    Pulled everything back out so I could try and insulate the intercooler and pipes with the fibreglass reflective tape, I also got some exhaust heat shield so I can try to build something around the lower part of the turbo manifold.

    I think my biggest enemy is going to be engine bay heat now

    Also removed my radiator / hydro fan setup so I can make some mounts for the condenser and heat exchanger to the radiator, while it's all out and the front of the engine is super accessible I should mount my compressor and change the belt path. (Few other things apparently need to change to make the compressor fit again so it might not make it this time around)
    1JZ RA28 (yoshi) the toymotor sillycar
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...gte-ra28-skids
    200B wagon
    LOW AND SLOW STOCKER

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