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Thread: Holden Gone by 2017 - Is the Australian Media Killing our Car Industry

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    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    Holden Gone by 2017 - Is the Australian Media Killing our Car Industry

    Saw this a few hours ago on News 24.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-0...016-17/5138942

    Can I make the suggestion that the Australian Media start being partially responsible for it's actions? I'm sure the reason for the Gymbyments draconian laws (hoon, the badly written WA proceeds from crime acts) are primarily the result of too many a pensioner watching Today Affair and am starting to think that the automotive industry is also punching bag.

    It's hard enough that they are struggling for a sale but to stick the boot in without any real justification seems low. People talk, sales stop. Two kids (19 and 24) at work didn't even look at a Focus because they heard that Ford was closing up shop.

    Discuss.

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    Scaramouch seedyrom's Avatar
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    Bring back the thunderstruck ad

    /thread

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    It's the ducks guts Tils's Avatar
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    Get your azz to mars bugle's Avatar
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    QANTAS is another one of their favourite punching bags. Media is pretty much against anything Australian these days.
    as short as possible

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    TJzone TJ's Avatar
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    Fucking straya!
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    The Fresh Prince of PF pepsi's Avatar
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    GIANTS TALK LIKE THIS.

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    Former hairdresser Captain_Slow's Avatar
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    Our media no longer thinks it is a reporter of news, it now thinks it makes the news. Hence this sort of thing, and why every interview seems to be trying to get the person to admit to something or say something dumb so they get the "gotcha" moment.

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    is delicious
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    Isn't Mike no longer the boss of Holden? Didn't he get promoted to the States?

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    Former hairdresser Captain_Slow's Avatar
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    I think he goes at the end of the year, and to China IIRC.

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    Registered User 260BC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco_VESS View Post
    Our media no longer thinks it is a reporter of news, it now thinks it makes the news. Hence this sort of thing, and why every interview seems to be trying to get the person to admit to something or say something dumb so they get the "gotcha" moment.
    Yep, but the bulk of the public follow whatever the media leads them to eg that yank actor who crashed and burnt in his car, still going on.
    Richard's DatsunZ lappin LakesidZ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47OSh...&feature=g-upl

    “Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid shit.”
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    “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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    “Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets..”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco_VESS View Post
    Our media no longer thinks it is a reporter of news, it now thinks it makes the news.
    witness another media blowup about AFL football and essendon football club, conveniently exposed a couple of weeks after the walkley awards saw winners from the relentless kicking they gave the club this year and allowing nominations for next year if they can find enough of the horses corpse to beat with sticks.

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    free hugs! Paddington's Avatar
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    It's rare to read a piece of quality Australian journalism anymore. It's all sensationlism and short bursts to keep the tweeters happy.

    Having said that, Australian business managers have made some absolute balls ups. ie Ford Marketing in Australia is terrible.
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    Sorry, am late to this thread. I have been protesting against whitey oppressors all morning with my people. I shall serenade this thread with my didge until nash comes in and puts it all into perspective.

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    Ford marketing in Australian is likely intentional in how it has gone about things
    I don't care a damn for your loyalty when you think I am right; when I really want it most is when you think I am wrong.
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    Registered User Shitbreak's Avatar
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    But wasn't this leaked by government officials to the media?

    But yeah, it really makes you wonder wtf is going to happen to Australia.
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    Shitbreak is the epitome of perfection.

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    Former hairdresser Captain_Slow's Avatar
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    PM is saying no more money and Holden needs to make a decision: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...205-2yu8i.html

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    Registered User Marlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Ford Marketing in Australia is terrible.
    Gosh, isn't it just.

    I'm astounded someone is actually being paid to pump out the awful marketing for Ford Aus. Truly...... how can they have a round table and think what they've produced is top-notch? I wouldn't buy a Ford product BECAUSE of the marketing.

  17. #17
    Problem? sssgtr's Avatar
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    People aren't buying Ford / Holden because there is better value for money on the market with other manufacturers.

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    Klassy with a K! Itsamario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero View Post
    Ford marketing in Australian is likely intentional in how it has gone about things
    Indeed!

    They had some great products however its utterly frustrating to see their half assed marketing attempts to convey them to the public.

    Dearborn has had it in for Geelong for quite a while, at Least GM gave Holden a shot by trying to export its goods.

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    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sssgtr View Post
    People aren't buying Ford / Holden because there is better value for money on the market with other manufacturers.
    Not in what they make, there's not.
    The problem is what they do (or maybe 'sensibly can') make; not enough people want to buy it. But they can't just downsize what they make either, because just building something 80% of the size doesn't mean they can make it for 80% of the cost.
    Dunno why they don't just make more gerlytrux. Gerlytruk buyers are easily fooled, you just flash something shiny in their face & they run for it; and what you make doesn't have to be a competitive drive either you can get away with 20yo dynamics.


    Segueing onto the topic of the thread-title ... there's no conspiracy going on, the media isn't trying to make these things happen. They're looking for something sensational they can say, so someone takes notice of them; they don't intend to make it happen (in the main - let's ignore the recent election), but they also don't give a shit if they cause it to happen.
    Last edited by Captiva Fan; 06-12-13 at 08:48 AM.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssgtr View Post
    People aren't buying Ford / Holden because there is better value for money on the market with other manufacturers.
    That's true for a general market statement.

    However, a statement such as this goes directly into the minds of those buyers who have already decided they want to buy a Holden but will now turn away from the brand because it won't be producing locally made cars. Statements such as this have a negative impact, even if it's 2% of buyers that walk it's still 2%.

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    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_idea View Post
    That's true for a general market statement.
    Not really.
    If you want a Corolla you're probably getting better value with a Cruze.
    If you want an anaesthetic full-sized dullmobile about the best value is a Camry or Aurion.
    If you want something a bit bigger again & which actually doesn't suck to drive, not much better value than a Falcodore.

    The problem isn't value, the problem is being good value in a segment that's becoming too small to make a profit out of; it's the wrong product, Grommit, the wrong product.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

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    I'm in 2 minds about this having worked for 2 locally manufactured company. I understand the pride and achievement we get from designing and building a car. The scale is phenomenal when you walk into the factory and see the countless men and women putting the cars together in the short time they are allocated per bay. If anyone has done the tour of any car manufacturing plant would know it. Sure the local manufacturers don't build the the world's most exciting car or a car that may not be relevant to 2013. Sure it may not be the stylish either but the work that goes into that "monster" is massive. Many people, myself included burned the midnight oil night after night, week after week, months after months to get the thing "right" (i.e. within the corporate limitations of being an Australian arm). The car being based in Australia meant that the workload is massive whereas for an imported vehicle, the workload is barely a blip in the chart as most of that work is done at the country where the plant is located. I.e. Not my fucking problem.

    The justifications for having the plant is a few. Things like foreign exchange hedging (say if the A$ goes down to US$0.6) will make the Aussie built cars much more profitable even though there is a high amount of imported content that goes into it. Keeping skills in Australia is another. Keeping Australians employed is another as I presume big manufacturing plants would have some sort of commitment with Canberra to keep them working and getting them off the unemployment welfare. Another is that none of the head honchos want to have on their resume "Closed down Australian manufacturing operations". Them being in the automotive game that high makes them, I think, fairly hard to employ elsewhere at the same level within the automotive game unless they were even higher to get an international transfer like Mike Devereux or like me, sever all ties with cars and try looking for work outside of the automotive scene.

    Now if we were to lose those manufacturing/design/engineering skills to overseas plants, sure we'd lose a shitload of skills throughout the entire process from design conception all the way to the QC bay at the end of the manufacturing plant but at the same time business sense wise, they would be profitable as an overall business in the short term, well, as long as the A$ is so high by continuing the import cars like the market is buying in boatloads already.

    The concept of "Australian made" is no longer getting consumers to think twice before pulling the trigger on a car. People want choice. People want options. People want to be individualistic in their purchases. In my mind, being the top seller does not sway me into buying a car. Buying a car that suits my needs and usage gets me over the line.

    Both sides have its merits. Both sides have its cons. Which one is the better path? It's just too hard to say.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg View Post
    Not really.
    If you want a Corolla you're probably getting better value with a Cruze.
    If you want an anaesthetic full-sized dullmobile about the best value is a Camry or Aurion.
    If you want something a bit bigger again & which actually doesn't suck to drive, not much better value than a Falcodore.

    The problem isn't value, the problem is being good value in a segment that's becoming too small to make a profit out of; it's the wrong product, Grommit, the wrong product.
    Just to put this into perspective, the RRP difference between a small luxury hatchback vs locally manufactured medium/large car is about $10-20k in favour of the large car but the kick in the guts is that it cost less to design, build and ship that small luxury hatchback to Australia than it is to do the same for a locally manufactured car currently built. Of course manufacturers don't price on a cost + x% basis but financial statements only work on a RRP minus Cost = Profit.

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    Former hairdresser Captain_Slow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg View Post
    The problem isn't value, the problem is being good value in a segment that's becoming too small to make a profit out of; it's the wrong product, Grommit, the wrong product.
    ...but then, what is the right product? What is the product which can be profitably built in an Australian car factory?

    I've been reading Holden and Toyota's submissions to the Productivity Commission inquiry and it makes for interesting reading. Holden's take on it is basically they don't make money on Cruze because there's so much competition and they have to keep prices low, but theyneed to build it to keep the volume through the factory. They think they can make money on Commodore because even though it's a smaller segment than it used to be, it's still a decently sized segment and they have more than 50% of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg View Post
    The problem isn't value, the problem is being good value in a segment that's becoming too small to make a profit out of; it's the wrong product, Grommit, the wrong product.
    Value is up to the individual's perception which makes it very subjective. As a 'general statement' people do not value their product as highly as competitors, if they did, they would be buying them.

    I think both Ford and Holden's woes are just as much to do with branding as it is with their offers. I think even if they came out with the perfect car, it'd still struggle to sell.

  26. #26
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_idea View Post
    Value is up to the individual's perception which makes it very subjective. As a 'general statement' people do not value their product as highly as competitors, if they did, they would be buying them.
    Holden seem to be shifting a few Cruzes; but given they cost as much as a Commodore to build I doubt they're making much profit.

    There are no competitors to any Falcodores, really. You could draw a long bow and compare an HSV to an AMG, but the HSV is kinda artificially overpriced due to the low volumes so it's not really a fair/valid comparison.

    That's why I said the problem isn't in value-for-money of the product. It's in the relevance of the product to the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco_VESS View Post
    ...but then, what is the right product? What is the product which can be profitably built in an Australian car factory?
    The problem may be that there isn't one.
    But for the last 30-odd years, buyers have been willing to fork-out way more than Falcodore money for antiquated creaky trucks with a few seats. Until they'd worn out their welcome by being on the market unchanged for so long (and then announced they were turning their back on buyers), Ford was shifting quite a few Terrortories despite the widely-known rust problems. It's hard to believe Holden couldn't have milked those stupids harder; shit, people will buy a nasty Cruze-price-to-build RAV4 (with the driving dynamics of a VT at best) for the price of an SS Commodore FFS!
    Last edited by Captiva Fan; 06-12-13 at 09:53 AM.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

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    Simple Holden fix guaranteed to make them a fortune.
    Remake the VL turbo and the VK series.

    Every Mohammad or Abdul or whatever other names they use will rush out to buy one. Same deal with the vk's but that ones aimed at every Bazza/wazza/dazza bogan

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    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith View Post
    Simple Holden fix guaranteed to make them a fortune.
    Remake the VL turbo and the VK series.

    Every Mohammad or Abdul or whatever other names they use will rush out to buy one. Same deal with the vk's but that ones aimed at every Bazza/wazza/dazza bogan
    It has to be badly resprayed, these people won't buy a car that hasn't obviously been in a crash.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

  29. #29
    right over the top TJ Shermuz's Avatar
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    the company needs to stand on its own two feet, cant just plow money into it forever

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    The market is changing, when a couple of people in a shed can concept, design and build a 'better' car than a major manufacturer.

    Personally, I hope that Holden / Ford AU close down, and 100 new car startups setup shop in sheds around the country.
    I will be more innovative, interesting and creative... but I know it wont happen. -- Hell, they could even use kickstarter / indiegogo to get their business off the ground.

    Management bloat is surely an issue with the major vendors, one that shed-companies avoid

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