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Thread: Holden Gone by 2017 - Is the Australian Media Killing our Car Industry

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg View Post
    The problem may be that there isn't one.
    I think you may be on the right path there.

    So much choice today. So many options.

    I'm looking online at cars that i may change to next year. All very nice cars yet i am finding fault with all of them. Perhaps the saturation of offerings and design have made us to picky? Our first world problems perhaps coming back to bite us in that our expectations are now on planet Mars?

  2. #32
    Autoerotic Mummification TonyJZX's Avatar
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    how long until toyota ups and runs?

    cant wait until this place is like New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by boxxx

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  3. #33
    right over the top TJ Shermuz's Avatar
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    does this mean we'll be allowed to import cars finally?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyJZX View Post
    how long until toyota ups and runs?

    cant wait until this place is like New Zealand
    About the same time Holden shuts shop. Suppliers for both Holden and Toyota are somewhat closer than they are to Ford. So if Holden is gone, the suppliers will be way under capacity and will either jack up prices for their parts to pay for their fixed costs or shut shop thereby leaving Toyota with no option than to import the part or themselves shutting shop.

    And yes, then there will be a case of more grey imports but I don't know how much it will improve given the scare tactics of some saying that Japanese sold cars are more dangerous than the ones sold in Australia which we all know is just bullshit.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gahan View Post
    does this mean we'll be allowed to import cars finally?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTFM View Post
    The market is changing, when a couple of people in a shed can concept, design and build a 'better' car than a major manufacturer.
    Do tell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gahan View Post
    the company needs to stand on its own two feet, cant just plow money into it forever
    Every other manufacturer has money thrown at them ... why not Holden & Toyota in Oz?
    If all other manufacturers are able to make cheaper product due to being govrrnment funded, why shouldn't ours get government funding too?

    Plough, BTW.
    Last edited by Captiva Fan; 06-12-13 at 11:06 AM.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

  7. #37
    Autoerotic Mummification TonyJZX's Avatar
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    he doesnt mean Tesla does he?
    Quote Originally Posted by boxxx

    Deutsche Bahn Rail: Trains are a great way to get lots of people concentrated into a small area, like a camp.
    ACA/TT: Where's the line between a car enthusiast and hoon? There is none

  8. #38
    Resident Oaf Jim's Avatar
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    I do wonder that maybe it would be better to let the industry collapse instead of artificially supporting it so that sustainable business models can be developed from the ashes.

  9. #39
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyJZX View Post
    he doesnt mean Tesla does he?
    Maybe ... Tesla's an interesting example in being able to make personal profit out overpriced product plugging a short-lived niche in the market ... the other stuff that guy's talking about is pretty whacky though (maglevs in vacuum tubes? Really?) & it will be interesting to see how long they last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I do wonder that maybe it would be better to let the industry collapse instead of artificially supporting it so that sustainable business models can be developed from the ashes.
    I can't see that working, the infrastructure's just too big to put in-place from a blank slate. Once it's gawn, it's gawn, uness/until our standard/cost of living drops back to 3rd-world standards.
    Last edited by Captiva Fan; 06-12-13 at 11:11 AM.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

  10. #40
    Registered User Gats's Avatar
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    I'd love to get an electric motorcycle company off the ground here in Aus. The problem is, everything costs too much, and it's too far gone to fix it.

  11. #41
    infantile egomaniac CussCuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I do wonder that maybe it would be better to let the industry collapse instead of artificially supporting it so that sustainable business models can be developed from the ashes.
    Its a really complicated question. There is the literal cost, a huge amount is going to go back in via taxes and then you have to weigh up that figure vs what it would cost to have them and all the supporting manufacturers out of work (welfare etc) and theres the social cost of having a decent chunk of workers unemployed, and associated indutry shut down. When it is this established its kinda hard to figure it out.

    The problem is that Holden will play games with it and act in bad faith, threaten to shut down etc to make sure they get the $ where its probably possible they could float on their own but would rather get cash from the government.

    As a very loose way of negotiating to keep things viable, they could possibly put coniditions on it, or make it based on certain amounts of profit, e.g. you put this much money into our economy and we will give you a discount somewhere, but obviously enough to make it worth it for them and hopefully in a way that encourages them to stay.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gat5rodeo View Post
    I'd love to get an electric motorcycle company off the ground here in Aus. The problem is, everything costs too much, and it's too far gone to fix it.
    Tesla did it ... all their employees can't be off-book Mexicans.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CussCuss View Post
    The problem is that Holden will play games with it and act in bad faith, threaten to shut down etc to make sure they get the $ where its probably possible they could float on their own but would rather get cash from the government.
    There's also the fact of them being fully-owned by an overseas company which has no particular interest in Holden's standalone profitability, only the overall group.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

  14. #44
    right over the top TJ Shermuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg View Post
    Tesla did it ... all their employees can't be off-book Mexicans.
    yeah with the backing of a guy worth a billion bucks, and he had to throw in so much cash he almost went broke

  15. #45
    To the Core WRXCORE's Avatar
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    The problem is GM not Holden. Which arsehole in GM thought bringing Opel into Oz was a good idea? Holden is suppose to represent all GM products for oz. Holdens line up is weak, AMG seems to have a bigger model line up at the moment than Holden.

    They should just start introducing all the different GM products to oz as holdens that doesn't conflict with the Commodore market. Who wouldn't want to see a Holden Corvette or Camaro. They could even charge $1000 extra for Chev badge option.
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  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I do wonder that maybe it would be better to let the industry collapse instead of artificially supporting it so that sustainable business models can be developed from the ashes.
    This would have to be a world first as every other country making cars on a large scale is some what funded by their government, currently Australia is the lowest funded.
    If it is true that for every dollar that the government puts in they get back $6 (or what ever it is) then there would have to be a huge flow on effect if it goes.

    I am so over the whole Holden build the wrong cars, the Commodore although no longer at the top is in the top5 not bad considering there are over 300different cars available to buy. The truth is one car that could be made to take majority share like back in the day.
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  17. #47
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    Exports being killed has been the biggest impact to Holden. The product being offered is better than ever, the AUD sell price hasnt changed, but the strength of the dollar (and some dodgy "free trade" deals) has killed it.

    No one complains when the government build subs/ships/tanks, buy aircraft etc that we don't really need, but try and build cars on a level playing field compared to the rest of the world and people lose their shit.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RESON8 View Post

    I am so over the whole Holden build the wrong cars, the Commodore .
    But it is the wrong car and only where it is because of history, patriotism, a very heavily backed dealer resource and reasonably attractive for a car of it's size - they are on a thin edge and one bad step would see them. Falcon was the same but had an even larger car image and the AU was their bad step that they never recovered from.

    While I give Holden management credit for keeping a "wrong car" at the sales performance levels they do, I think they are/have painted themselves right royally into a corner.

    I don't understand why Holden would announce a pullout with Ford actually doing it, Shirley some of the sales will immediately fall into Holden's hands so I'm calling bullshit - at least for the short term.

  19. #49
    Registered User 260BC's Avatar
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    There is minus prestige in owning a Ford or a Holden, a significant factor in this country.
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  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheapracer View Post
    I don't understand why Holden would announce a pullout with Ford actually doing it, Shirley some of the sales will immediately fall into Holden's hands so I'm calling bullshit - at least for the short term.
    I'm with you. The volumes to support the totals of Falcons + Commodores, except that nmber rolling down the one production-line, should be high enough to make it worthwhile building something that size here. But only from a Holden POV, GM thinks they can sell a Malibu (which should be $18k if you compare it to a Cruze on the basis of anything other than size) for the same $40k as a Commodore SS and pocket waay more profit than from selling an SS.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheapracer View Post
    But it is the wrong car and only where it is because of history, patriotism, a very heavily backed dealer resource and reasonably attractive for a car of it's size - they are on a thin edge and one bad step would see them. Falcon was the same but had an even larger car image and the AU was their bad step that they never recovered from. While I give Holden management credit for keeping a "wrong car" at the sales performance levels they do, I think they are/have painted themselves right royally into a corner. I don't understand why Holden would announce a pullout with Ford actually doing it, Shirley some of the sales will immediately fall into Holden's hands so I'm calling bullshit - at least for the short term.
    Then what is the right car?

  22. #52
    Registered User MZ21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg View Post

    Plough, BTW.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco_VESS View Post
    Then what is the right car?
    Probably a gerlytruk, but one which uses shitloads of componentry with a Commode.
    Like how all Subarus are the same.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

  24. #54
    Registered User 260BC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg View Post
    Probably a gerlytruk, but one which uses shitloads of componentry with a Commode.
    ............
    Yep, it's called 'Territory".
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  25. #55
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    I dont get it , sales production seems to be climbing ?

    1978 Commodore VB Total built: 95,906
    1980 Commodore VC Total built: 121,807
    1981 Commodore VH Total built: 141,018
    1984 Commodore VK Total built: 135,705
    1986 Commodore VL Total built: 151,801
    1988 Commodore VN Total built: 215,180
    1991 Commodore VP Total built: 111,770
    1993 Commodore VR Total built: 165,262
    1995 Commodore VS Total built: 277,774
    1997 Commodore VT Total built: 303,895
    2000 Commodore VX Total built: 207,339
    2002 Commodore VY Total built: 241,909
    2004 Commodore VZ Total built: 228,788
    2006 Commodore VE Total built: 520,000
    Total 2.92 million
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  26. #56
    Registered User dnegative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gahan View Post
    the company needs to stand on its own two feet, cant just plow money into it forever
    Pretty much, if you know there is no future, profit or point in being here pull the pin and stop pissing your money away.
    If they announced it for 2016 that gives the employees 2 years to get their shit together.
    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Fuck I'm retarded

  27. #57
    Autoerotic Mummification TonyJZX's Avatar
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    they built a lot of VEs because it went from 2006 to 2013? thats a long stretch
    Quote Originally Posted by boxxx

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  28. #58
    Registered User MZ21's Avatar
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    Holden did say the VE platform would be used for 10 years. So exiting in 2017 seems to be about right as they won't invest another billion dollars in a replacement rwd platform.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gahan View Post
    the company needs to stand on its own two feet, cant just plow money into it forever
    Every other country does, is Australia a special case where we shouldn't? OK if Australia does not want a car industry and it seems that this is the case then fair enough and the car companies have had years of advance notice that they are not wanted. The government most probably want them to go ASAP in their first term as they most probably have enough majority to get back in. Sure as hell if GM close up shop then they won't win any seats in SA and not many in VIC either. If GM don't shut up shop until after the next elections then the Libs will be toast and they would know that and nothing motivates a polly more than losing his seat.

  30. #60
    Autoerotic Mummification TonyJZX's Avatar
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    the UK and Germany give heaps of money to their car companies but then they are export oriented and they pay real dividends

    its too late for Holden and Ford and you can blame the parent for stifling any hope of expanding out of Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by boxxx

    Deutsche Bahn Rail: Trains are a great way to get lots of people concentrated into a small area, like a camp.
    ACA/TT: Where's the line between a car enthusiast and hoon? There is none

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