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Thread: FHR in CAMS Speed Events from 2020

  1. #1
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    FHR in CAMS Speed Events from 2020

    FYI:

    https://www.cams.com.au/media/news/l...n-speed-events

    Changes are being made to the regulations surrounding the use of Frontal Head Restraints (FHR) in Speed Events from 2020, for those using vehicles equipped for its use.

    This will mean anyone racing a 1st category vehicle, or car with a CAMS logbook which applies a Race, Rally/Road, Off Road or 5th Category classification, and used in an event applicable to its Log Book classification, requires the mandatory use of a FHR.

    The use of FHR will not become mandatory in Speed Events for competitors who will be participating in events without the mandatory use of additional equipment such as a safety cage, safety harness or competition-style seat, such as using a road registered vehicle at a club’s ‘come and try day’.

    FHRs are now common place throughout motor sport, providing a significant improvement to the safety of those participating in the sport, especially in the instance of a forward impact incident.

    The vast majority of CAMS’ motor sport disciplines require the use of FHR, with various studies showing the benefits, with reduced injuries to the neck by providing additional support to the head through attachments to the helmet.

    All competitors will be encouraged to follow this recommendation in 2019, before it becomes compulsory in 2020.

    The below change will apply in the 2019 CAMS Manual of Motor Sport, Schedule D:

    It is highly recommend that a FHR compliant with Standard A and a Helmet compliant with Standard A is worn when competing in:

    (a) Each 1st Category automobile, except for a Superkart or a 5th Category automobile which is exempt from the use of a FHR;

    (b) Each automobile the subject of a CAMS Log Book which applies a RACE, RALLY/ROAD, OFF ROAD or 5th CATEGORY classification whereby that automobile when used in an event applicable to its Log Book classification requires the mandatory use of a FHR.

    NOTE: The use of a FHR is not required for a Road Registered automobile for a SPEED Event whereby the necessary equipment for the correct use of a FHR is not fitted to the automobile (i.e. 5/6 point safety harness)
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  2. #2
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    yeah if you're updating your safety gear these days you should definitely have HANS-compatibility front of mind. i'm getting a new helmet soon and it will definitely be one with HANS posts.
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    bitch lasagne Bob Vegana.'s Avatar
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    Not just helmets, but seats too.
    Quote Originally Posted by brewdles View Post
    In short, some cunt at test and tune had a 250cc honda turning to 11ty and it sounded porn. Do that.

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    Registered User Andy San's Avatar
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    Wording is a little confusing, I wonder if this will apply to something like a $200 gumtree excel which is not eligible to run in the road registered class at a local hillclimb (as it's not registered) but doesn't have any of the other safety items needed for a hans device to be used such as a cage, belts etc.

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    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    my take is, if it isnt registered then it would need to be log booked, which means yes.
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    Registered User THE CHIEF's Avatar
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    If the class it runs in doesn't require compulsory roll cage then fhr device wont be compulsory either.

    There was rumours cams was going to make fhr compulsory for sprints this year but that didn't eventuate. When the time comes to replace my helmet, ill be getting a hans as well. Already got the seat and harness.

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    The way I read that, though, is if you have a competition type seat and harness in a road registered car, and/or a cage, then you will be required to have a FHR device too, even in a sprint that doesn't need it officially.
    The only time you won't need it is if you are driving a road car with a normal style road seat and seat belt setup that is obviously not compatible with a FHR setup.
    I also don't believe a non-registered car needs to be log booked to do sprints, so the above gumtree excel example wouldn't need it because it is has no competition seat/harness setup.

    In reality, I think the way scrutineers will scrutineer it is - competition seat/harness setup - need FHR. Normal road seat/seat belt - no FHR.

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    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    in the nsw supersprints if your car is unrego then it needs to be logbooked

    logbook, or cage/harness, then you need FHR in an L2S and above event is the way i read it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski talking like a crazed hobo View Post
    The major arrests will start from 1st January 2019.

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    anyone? MRMOPARMAN's Avatar
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    So autocross it wont be reqd, but long course/rallysprints etc it will be reqd unless car is regod.

    Just fuckin great. Another kick in the nuts to grass roots motorsport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rdyno
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    Registered User dave1600's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trdee View Post
    my take is, if it isnt registered then it would need to be log booked, which means yes.
    State level events and up car must be road reg or logbooked, up to state level you can still run unregd with no logbook unless specified otherwise in things like supp regs.

    Haven't looked at it in over 12 months, so stand to be corrected.

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    Registered User Tardinator's Avatar
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    It's an absolute joke from CAMS that will only serve to kill of grass roots motorsport. I don't think I will be running any CAMS events in 2019 now...

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    Compulsive modifier awdmoke's Avatar
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    I'll be dropping back to track days and motorkhanas.
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    Registered User Tardinator's Avatar
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    It's my understanding that any multi-club rally will require FHR (so potentially new helmet, FHR, seats, belts?) for 2019 which is simply insane for the given level of risk. I hope there is a significant drop in competitor numbers which may force CAMS to rethink this craziness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tardinator View Post
    It's my understanding that any multi-club rally will require FHR (so potentially new helmet, FHR, seats, belts?) for 2019 which is simply insane for the given level of risk. I hope there is a significant drop in competitor numbers which may force CAMS to rethink this craziness.
    FHR for all Special Stage Rallies as of tomorrow (Jan 1 2019).

    Level 1 Rallysprints (like the tarmac rallysprints at Sydney Dragway and Perth Motorplex) and Introductory Rallies are the exception.
    Right now I'm eating scrambled egg. With a comb! Out of a shoe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fro View Post
    FHR for all Special Stage Rallies as of tomorrow (Jan 1 2019).

    Level 1 Rallysprints (like the tarmac rallysprints at Sydney Dragway and Perth Motorplex) and Introductory Rallies are the exception.
    This is my understanding also. I do Rallysprints at Motorplex and other locations and not mandatory as yet. However, I always wear FHR for past few years, even when doing 'low risk' events. Get a comfortable one and use it. My Velo helmet was $300, the Simpson Hybrid Sport FHR was $800. Worth it, though I'd also suggest 3" harness shoulder straps are not very useful, so you also want a FHR compatible harness (2" shoulder straps)...which then means you can't run without FHR in any case.

    It does tend to snowball the cost a bit once you got helmet, FHR and harness, true. But munted necks, or worse BSF are not fun either... Never was a cheap sport!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOPARMAN View Post
    So autocross it wont be reqd, but long course/rallysprints etc it will be reqd unless car is regod.

    Just fuckin great. Another kick in the nuts to grass roots motorsport.
    Hmmm .... the reg's imply that if you have a FHR-compatible competition seat in a road-registered car used in an event that requires an L2S license like a sprint or super-sprint you will need a FHR.

    I'm sorry but in these litigious days, when the legal profession has created the cirsumstances where individuals (or their dependents) can retrospectively absolve themselves of personal responsibility, this was entirely predictable.

    I was using an old-school foam neck support well over 20-years ago and have used a HANS for at least 10 years and I view it as cheap insurance.

    One of my mates suffered brake failure at Sandown (picture attached) and walked away from it with simple bruising .........

    He had a HANS-compatible seat in his car, a 5-point harness (using a harness bar rather than a cage) and FHR eqipped helmet.

    Maybe he might have been lucky without having made that investment, but he is adamant that is was cheap insurance and I fully agree with him.

    Whilst I have been super-critical of Eugene and his cronies in the past, it is time for FHR to filter down (IMO).

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    bitch lasagne Bob Vegana.'s Avatar
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    Look at speedway; HANS/FHR right the way through, from grassroots up. Has been that way for nearly 10 years now. Sure, people whinged about change/cost/conspiracies regarding its effectiveness, but they had no choice. There was no ambiguity. They even compiled a very clear list of what helmets and FHR devices were approved, right down to part numbers.

    CAMS is just falling into line really.
    Quote Originally Posted by brewdles View Post
    In short, some cunt at test and tune had a 250cc honda turning to 11ty and it sounded porn. Do that.

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    CNGAF rowdytoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Vegana. View Post
    Look at speedway; HANS/FHR right the way through, from grassroots up. Has been that way for nearly 10 years now. Sure, people whinged about change/cost/conspiracies regarding its effectiveness, but they had no choice. There was no ambiguity. They even compiled a very clear list of what helmets and FHR devices were approved, right down to part numbers.

    CAMS is just falling into line really.
    CAMS has been making small yet deliberate moves to remove themselves from sanctioning anything other than high level professional motorsport aligned with FIA race categories for years, and this is just another step in that game to price themselves out of the market and let AASA etc take over the bottom end of the market, so to speak. Fine by me.

    If this was say Worksafe imposing new controls of the use of XYZ in the workplace, or the Police proposing road safety measures in the manner that CAMS has just done here, there would be outrage, and rightly so. What CAMS has done here (as they do on most occasions) is fail to provide any evidence, risk assessment or modelling specific the risks of the particular situation, and how the intervention (FHR) would significantly mitigate the consequences (being PPE and being a mitigate control is as shit at it gets in risk controls, but hey lets no go there) of a frontal impact in speed events.
    Now you need to start with what is the prevalence of frontal impacts in speed events , and is that a significant problem,, and then look at those where their was a neck injury severe enough that FHR either did, or if it was worn , would prevent or significantly reduce the seriousness of that injury. I'll put money on CAMS not even having the 1st bit of data with any degree of accuracy let alone the second or 3rd.

    If there is evidence to support FHR as a necessary risk control, on the basis of a proper and published assessment rather than, it exists and it's mandatory in wheel to wheel racing so it must be a good thing, then I'll be on board.


    The other really interesting thing is that they way these rules are drafted, is that creates a disincentive for street registered car owners in speed events from putting harness bars,fixed back seats, and harnesses in their cars because they then have to spend another 1000 + bucks on a new lid and a FHR, so some who have that safety gear may chose to remove it, or others might not be able to install what they have now, and as a result CAMS has created a reduced level of risk control, over what would exist now. This is not the outcome anyone should be looking for, and is clear evidence of either no risk assessment has been done, or it's been done by someone who should stick to putting licences in envelopes, and signed off by someone who should be putting the envelopes in the mail

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    Registered User dave1600's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm reading it wrong (it is just a press release, actual regulation may be different), but to my thinking the bit below means you won't need a HANS in speed events that currently don't require you to fit a cage / harness / comp seat.

    The use of FHR will not become mandatory in Speed Events for competitors who will be participating in events without the mandatory use of additional equipment such as a safety cage, safety harness or competition-style seat,

    So, if the event REQUIRES you to have a cage, etc, you are required to use a HANS.

    If the event DOESN'T require a cage, I read it that you can run without a HANS, even if your car DOES have a cage ???

    Like most CAMS stuff, will probably take careful reading of the regulation whenever it is publisjed (rather than just wording in a press release)
    Last edited by dave1600; 01-01-19 at 09:06 AM.

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    Registered User THE CHIEF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave1600 View Post
    Maybe I'm reading it wrong (it is just a press release, actual regulation may be different), but to my thinking the bit below means you won't need a HANS in speed events that currently don't require you to fit a cage / harness / comp seat.

    The use of FHR will not become mandatory in Speed Events for competitors who will be participating in events without the mandatory use of additional equipment such as a safety cage, safety harness or competition-style seat,

    So, if the event REQUIRES you to have a cage, etc, you are required to use a HANS.

    If the event DOESN'T require a cage, I read it that you can run without a HANS, even if your car DOES have a cage ???

    Like most CAMS stuff, will probably take careful reading of the regulation whenever it is publisjed (rather than just wording in a press release)
    That's how i read it too but i reckon the only way to know for sure is to call cams and confirm.


    Edit. It seems a bit like roll cage regs regarding non cams approved roll cages. You can run them as long as it's not mandatory for the event and the scrutineer doesn't believe the cage to be unsafe.
    Last edited by THE CHIEF; 01-01-19 at 10:15 AM.

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    CNGAF rowdytoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave1600 View Post
    Maybe I'm reading it wrong (it is just a press release, actual regulation may be different), but to my thinking the bit below means you won't need a HANS in speed events that currently don't require you to fit a cage / harness / comp seat.

    The use of FHR will not become mandatory in Speed Events for competitors who will be participating in events without the mandatory use of additional equipment such as a safety cage, safety harness or competition-style seat,

    So, if the event REQUIRES you to have a cage, etc, you are required to use a HANS.

    If the event DOESN'T require a cage, I read it that you can run without a HANS, even if your car DOES have a cage ???

    Like most CAMS stuff, will probably take careful reading of the regulation whenever it is publisjed (rather than just wording in a press release)
    Its my understanding that the press release is not accurate, particularly when you read the regulations themselves.. That said it wouldn't br the first time that cams has released something or written a reg and worded it so poorly it bares no reflection of the actual intent.

    Regardless my points re: lack of evidence or risk assessment for fhr in this context still stand...

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    anyone? MRMOPARMAN's Avatar
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    So if i needed FHR in the future but wanted to go completely jew on new stuff, how cheap could one get it all for?

    Is there any aldis/bunnings of the FHR world? Last i checked (ages ago) it was going to be nearly a $2k exersize. Which if thats still the case, giys like me with a $600 race car arent going to be doing that shit.

    Surely with the standardisarion of FHR across all sorts of racing, the prices must have come down significantly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rdyno
    70ynu has to be the most retarded cunt here. "Help me please" me "you need to remove your head" him "fuck off cunt I'm to lazy fuck off out of my thread you told me to do something I don't want to do so you're a cunt fuck off can some one please tell me an easier way???"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripper
    Its a tight battle between you and rogercordia for the most retarded member on here, thou i think you have it by 5 window licks

  23. #23
    bitch lasagne Bob Vegana.'s Avatar
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    Yeah, heaps cheaper now.

    A lot of places do package deals these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by brewdles View Post
    In short, some cunt at test and tune had a 250cc honda turning to 11ty and it sounded porn. Do that.

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    Registered User THE CHIEF's Avatar
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    $450-500 was the cheapest hans i saw when recently looking into it. Cheapest non junk helmet with fhr posts was around the same. $250-400 for a proper Hans harness. Then you also need a seat that will accept an fhr as well as harness bar/cage. Total cost is well upwards of 2k if you don't have any of the gear to start with.

    Ive acquired most of the stuff in steps as i did more and more track days. Its a hell of an expense to do all at once. Even though it's not mandatory yet, i decided a while back that its a very good idea to invest in this stuff. Still got to get a new helmet and the actual hans device.

    To impose theses costs on guys just first entering the sport (if this is what cams is doing) is a sure way of detering interest. A necessary evil? Maybe, maybe not...

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    Quote Originally Posted by THE CHIEF View Post
    Total cost is well upwards of 2k if you don't have any of the gear to start with.
    Cheaper than a broken neck.

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    1. Safety
    2. Reliability
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    Whatever you do, don't go and buy a FHR without trying it on, ideally in your car in your seat. Sure you can get a boggo standard spec HANS setup for $450 or whatever. But if it actually fits and is comfortable enough for you to actually use it is another thing...

    Guy at the local shop was adamant I'd not have a problem trying on HANS type FHR. Took my car in to try and not chance it would work. No sale. Of course, your results may vary...and for your budget I hope they do!

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    Registered User dave1600's Avatar
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    My top tip - make sure you can get out of the car wearing it all ! I usually pull up in the pits and casually remove helmet / HANS / gloves/ etc then get out of the car. Had an engine bay fire on the track at Eastern Creek a couple of years back, and discovered I couldn't get out of the car wearing the HANS - it held my head upright so I couldn't duck down enough to clear the roll cage front leg above the door. Few anxious moments sitting in the car fumbling around trying to unclip the helmet so I could get out, while watching smoke pour out from under the bonnet.....

    I also decided a while back it was time to invest in some decent safety gear, cheap HANS and decent helmet came in well under a grand. I just use the 3" harness I already had, didn't upgrade to a proper HANS harness (saves money, plus I can use them without HANS if I ever feel the need).

    I find a HANS is pretty uncomfortable if you pay attention to it, not sure if its because mine is cheap and whether I could get a better one, but once I'm on the track I don't notice it at all.

  28. #28
    bitch lasagne Bob Vegana.'s Avatar
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    Don't know if they're still legal, but a lot of speedway guys had quick-release tethers velcro'd to their helmet that they'd yank to decouple the FHR from the helmet itself.

    EDIT: Simpson Hybrid with quick release.
    Last edited by Bob Vegana.; 02-01-19 at 08:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by brewdles View Post
    In short, some cunt at test and tune had a 250cc honda turning to 11ty and it sounded porn. Do that.

  29. #29
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    have looked at the simpson hybrid before, i like the design, but have yet to try one. will be buying HANS gear this year so i'll be finding out shortly i guess
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    Registered User Tardinator's Avatar
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    I will also say that I feel really bad for the hard working event organisers who are going to see decreased fields because of this rule change. For many events already it is hard enough to get enough competitors to make the event worth while, let alone with these rule changes.

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