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Thread: F1 Shit Talk Thread -

  1. #8731
    Desert Nigga vet 180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trdee View Post
    ricciardo was the #1 overtaker this year:

    http://en.f1i.com/news/287578-pirell...akes-2017.html
    Wow strapon with only 22 vs danís 43!
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  2. #8732
    Registered User Rascasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vet 180 View Post
    Wow strapon with only 22 vs danís 43!
    I know this stat looks massively in Danny Ric's favour and surely he's a contender for overtake of the year. But the 43 overtakes vs. Strapon's 22, would be directly related to Dan's grid penalties wouldn't it and having to fight his way back to the pointy end of the field on a couple of occasions?

    I suppose qualifying pace vs. Dan's seemingly stronger race pace would also play its part in the above stat.

  3. #8733
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    Hunt did actually get pretty depressed after his missus left him and he was very much the fancy dresser, especially when flying around the world going to fashion shows with his model girlfriend/wife. It's just that when we look back at him he was a bit 70's/kinda daggy but if you imagine looking at him as someone who was born during the great depression he was pretty out there.

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  4. #8734
    Registered User jezza323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rascasse View Post
    I know this stat looks massively in Danny Ric's favour and surely he's a contender for overtake of the year. But the 43 overtakes vs. Strapon's 22, would be directly related to Dan's grid penalties wouldn't it and having to fight his way back to the pointy end of the field on a couple of occasions?

    I suppose qualifying pace vs. Dan's seemingly stronger race pace would also play its part in the above stat.
    Also a large number of DNFs for strapon, particularly early in races
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  5. #8735
    Registered User Rascasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jezza323 View Post
    Also a large number of DNFs for strapon, particularly early in races
    I felt the same at first thought, with Max's first half of season being terrible for reliability. But things ended up pretty even with Max having 7 DNF's to Dan's 6 across the entirety of the 2017 season.

    https://www.formula1.com/en/results....erstappen.html
    https://www.formula1.com/en/results....ricciardo.html

    EDIT - Dan was struck with 3 DNF's across the last 4 races. Helmut strikes again!
    Last edited by Rascasse; 07-12-17 at 03:40 PM.

  6. #8736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rascasse View Post
    Helmut strikes again!
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  7. #8737
    Desert Nigga vet 180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rascasse View Post
    I felt the same at first thought, with Max's first half of season being terrible for reliability. But things ended up pretty even with Max having 7 DNF's to Dan's 6 across the entirety of the 2017 season.

    https://www.formula1.com/en/results....erstappen.html
    https://www.formula1.com/en/results....ricciardo.html

    EDIT - Dan was struck with 3 DNF's across the last 4 races. Helmut strikes again!
    Let's look into that in a little more detail:

    Max 4 Mechanical 3 Collision related

    Bahrain Brake Failure
    Spain Collision Damage
    Canada Electrical
    Azerbaijan oil pressure
    Austria Collision Damage
    Belgium Engine
    Singapore Collision



    Dan 5 Mechanical 1 Collision

    Australia Fuel cell
    Russia Brakes
    Hungary Collision
    USA Engine
    Mexico Turbo
    Abu Dhabi Hydraulics

    Dan had only 1 collision retirement and that was from his team mate punting him. Dan also had more mechanical related DNF's.

    So lets look at the stats a little different without Crofty's Mad Max fan glasses on:

    Dan 32 more race pionts
    Dan 1 more mechanical DNF
    Dan 40 more grid place penalties
    Dan 21 more overtakes

    Max had a great season don't get me wrong. Only person to ever out-qualify Dan, had good race craft, some great races and 1 more race victory than Dan. But Max got all the headlines while Dan was very much the silent achiever in 2017.

    I am looking forward to next season with the 2 at Redbull, hopefully the car is a little more competitive and we really get to see the 2 feisty and going for it. I think the honey badger will show his teeth when there is something at stake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Babalouie View Post
    Geez we're a bunch of softcocks...we have a 911 and we're obsessing over non-functional ducts and indicator colours

  8. #8738
    Registered User lukevl's Avatar
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    I certainly hope Dan fires up when there is more to play for.

    And lol that his only collision DNF was from Strapon. Says a lot

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    I know it sounds a bit lame but Iím actually interested to see who has the yellow top (camera or whatever it is) on the Red Bull next year...whether it finds its way onto Danís car. The yellow does generally seem to be on the number 2 car and I reckon itíd irk Max having it on his.

  10. #8740
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    Quote Originally Posted by vet 180 View Post
    Dan 40 more grid place penalties
    Dan 21 more overtakes

    .
    I'm not a Max fan at all, I take delight in seeing him sulk back to the pits after a breakdown or Torpedo moment. But playing devils advocate as someone else mentioned the top one there kinda leads to the bottom one.

    Essentially Max had 47% of the amount of grid penalty's as Dan (35 vs. 75) but Max managed 51% as many passes (22 vs. 43). So stats are possibly in Max's favor?
    Last edited by Luke352; 09-12-17 at 08:58 AM.

  11. #8741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke352 View Post
    I'm not a Max fan at all, I take delight in seeing him sulk back to the pits after a breakdown or Torpedo moment. But playing devils advocate as someone else mentioned the top one there kinda leads to the bottom one.

    Essentially Max had 47% of the amount of grid penalty's as Dan (35 vs. 75) but Max managed 51% as many passes (22 vs. 43). So stats are possibly in Max's favor?
    Starting overtakes are not counted in the stats, and they are on track over takes and do not include pit related overtakes
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  12. #8742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
    Starting overtakes are not counted in the stats, and they are on track over takes and do not include pit related overtakes
    But that relates to both of them since they both comes under the same stats.

  13. #8743
    Registered User AndyMac's Avatar
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    Can see much changing in 2018.

    Ferrari will hopefully find that little be more and be on par with Merc for real. McLaren Vs Red Bull for the rest, can't discount Renault starting to improve either.

    Good to see Dan admitting he needs to find something in qualifying too.
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  14. #8744
    Nay sayer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke352 View Post
    Essentially Max had 47% of the amount of grid penalty's as Dan (35 vs. 75) but Max managed 51% as many passes (22 vs. 43). So stats are possibly in Max's favor?
    I dunno. That seems like a bit of a stretch.

    FIA just listed the top 10 overtakes of the year. 4 of them were Dan, 0 of them were Max.
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  15. #8745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Ed View Post
    I dunno. That seems like a bit of a stretch.

    FIA just listed the top 10 overtakes of the year. 4 of them were Dan, 0 of them were Max.
    Oh I agree, subjectively to me Dan is the better overtaker and has better racecraft. Dan is much more patient and times his moves, Max is just like a bull at a gate and half the time ends up having to take extra measures to cool his car and protect his tyres because he is just impatient and sitting right on someone to the detriment of his car when he really wasn't in a position to pass.

  16. #8746
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    Autosport top 10 of 2017.

    10. Sergio Perez

    Team Force India
    Starts 20
    Best result 4th
    Championship position 7th
    Perez could make a case to be higher up this list after another excellent campaign with Force India. He is now undoubtedly one of the F1 midfield's most consistent drivers.

    With Nico Hulkenberg moved on to pastures new, Perez became the undisputed reference for Force India, and its new driver Esteban Ocon - and didn't disappoint. There was no podium this season, but Perez amassed a three-figure points tally again and fell just one point shy of matching his 2016 peak of 101.

    Perez was narrowly Force India's faster driver across the balance of the campaign too, and proved he is much more than a good tyre manager. He has flourished into a properly fast, super-consistent, utterly dependable performer. Force India feels he is operating at his peak.

    The big question then is whether Perez has reached his ceiling. Ocon began to turn the tide on familiar circuits and will only get better. If Perez cannot retain the balance of power against Mercedes' star junior, hopes of another shot at the elite end of the grid will surely never materialise.



    9. Esteban Ocon

    Team Force India
    Starts 20
    Best result 5th
    Championship position 8th
    Ocon was not definitively better than Perez, but gets the nod in this ranking because of just how close he came. To be within 0.075% of Perez's qualifying pace throughout the year, and to fall just 13 points shy of Perez's points total, was a truly outstanding effort for a driver of Ocon's inexperience.

    Ocon slotted in at Force India so seamlessly, and was so accomplished, it was easy to forget he'd started only nine grands prix before this season got under way. Remember, this was Perez's seventh year in F1, his fourth with Force India, and he's contested well over 100 races in that time.

    The early part of the year was tough, as Ocon found his feet, but his progress massively impressed the team, and once back on circuits that had featured in his part-season with Manor in 2016, Ocon evened out the qualifying battle, pretty much matched Perez point for point, and was narrowly the faster Force India driver after the August break.

    If Ocon continues this rate of development, he will surely become a serious contender for a works Mercedes drive in 2019.



    8. Carlos Sainz Jr

    Team Toro Rosso/Renault
    Starts 20
    Best result 5th
    Championship position 9th
    The Toro Rosso was a tricky car, which did not develop well and lacked power, but Sainz did extraordinary things with it, which is why he beats Felipe Massa and the Force India drivers in this ranking.

    Sainz's race to seventh in China - miles faster than the other midfield runners in difficult conditions - was something special, as was beating Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes to sixth in Monaco. Fourth in Singapore, Sainz's best result in F1 yet, was another example of overachieving in tough circumstances.

    Sainz scored 48 of STR's 53 points, and the team added only one more after he left, which says a lot. Finishing seventh on his Renault debut at Austin - passing Perez around the outside at high-speed - was Verstappen-esque in its audacity.

    Red Bull clearly ranks Sainz third in its talent pool, behind Max Verstappen and Daniel Ricciardo, which is fair enough, but Sainz continues to suggest he is simply too good to ignore.



    7. Nico Hulkenberg

    Team Renault
    Starts 20
    Best result 6th
    Championship position 10th
    This was Hulkenberg's most impressive Formula 1 season since 2013, when heroic drives for Sauber made him a contender for a Ferrari seat. The ambitious but nascent Renault works project represents Hulkenberg's final realistic shot at the big time, and he so far hasn't disappointed.

    He was the only driver not to get outqualified by a team-mate all season - though Jolyon Palmer was on course until his Renault broke at Spa - and Hulkenberg would have scored many more points but for poor reliability.

    The Renault was not definitively the fourth best on the grid, but there were occasions when Hulkenberg took it to places it did not belong. He was outstanding at Silverstone, and was pushing Valtteri Bottas for a podium in Singapore before it broke down.

    Crucially, it was Hulkenberg's feedback that led Renault down the development path that transformed its fortunes mid-season, proving he is a leader as well as an extraordinarily fast driver.



    6. Valtteri Bottas

    Team Mercedes
    Starts 20
    Wins 3
    Championship position 3rd
    Bottas had one of the toughest tasks on the grid: stepping up from a midfield team late in the day, into a seat vacated by the reigning world champion - a driver so exhausted by fighting Hamilton he decided to retire rather than defend his title.

    Bottas acquitted himself superbly - pole in his third race, two wins from the first nine, a title contender before the August break. When Mercedes most struggled with the W08 on smooth, low-speed tracks during the first half of the season, it was Bottas who looked more assured than his multiple world champion team-mate.

    But Bottas's form dipped as the car improved, and Hamilton stepped up his own game. Bottas started to look second rate, admitting his confidence took a battering. Arguably the most impressive aspect to Bottas's season is the fact he eventually found a way to turn things around.

    His strong finish to the year, showcasing impressive mental resilience and capacity for self-improvement, elevates him back into the top six in this ranking.



    5. Daniel Ricciardo

    Team Red Bull
    Starts 20
    Wins 1
    Championship position 5th
    Last season's outstanding driver struggled to reach the same heights this year, mainly because of the leap forward Verstappen made on the other side of the Red Bull garage. Ricciardo is the same super-smooth, fast and classy racer of recent seasons, it's just Verstappen's superlative form made it tougher for Ricciardo to stand out.

    Whenever the RB13 was a bit loose, Ricciardo looked less comfortable than his team-mate, and there were a couple of uncharacteristic slumps and errors. When the car became a genuine victory contender at certain circuits during the final part of the year, it was Verstappen and not Ricciardo doing the winning.

    There were still some brilliant performances: holding off Hamilton to finish on the podium in Austria; burns from the stern in Britain and Italy (including a trademark lunge pass on Kimi Raikkonen); and a brilliant weekend before the car broke in Abu Dhabi.

    But although Ricciardo scored more podiums in one season than ever before, and finished fifth in the championship, he was definitively the second-best driver at Red Bull this year, which is a new experience for him.

    Ricciardo remains one of the best on the grid, but now he is discovering what it's like to exist in Verstappen's shadow. Finding a way to emerge from it will be Ricciardo's next big test.



    4. Sebastian Vettel

    Team Ferrari
    Starts 20
    Wins 5
    Championship position 2nd
    After a troubled 2016, Ferrari and Sebastian Vettel rediscovered their mojo this year. Having a car underneath him capable of fighting for the championship seemed to galvanise Vettel.

    His qualifying form was outstanding. He made the front row 14 times in 19 attempts (discounting Malaysia, where the engine failed in Q1) - including four pole positions - which represents a superb effort in a car that was not often the fastest on the grid over one lap. Raikkonen threatened Vettel's superiority last season, but was pummelled into submission this year.

    While Mercedes struggled to consistently unlock the full potential of the W08 early on, Vettel brilliantly capitalised on every mistake to assume the championship lead. Hamilton suggested Ferrari favoured Vettel, but Vettel's consistently excellent performances were also worthy of any favouritism on offer.

    Given their inferiority to Mercedes and Hamilton at most circuits, Ferrari and Vettel could not afford mistakes. Ferrari's bizarre unreliability streak in Malaysia and Japan cost Vettel a heap of points, but so did his mad moment behind the safety car in Azerbaijan, and that ill-advised chop on Verstappen at the start in Singapore.

    They were needless errors, which cost Vettel his title shot - even allowing for Ferrari's engine problems. That susceptibility in moments of extreme pressure is the chief reason Vettel is not better placed in this ranking.



    3. Fernando Alonso

    Team McLaren
    Starts 20
    Best result 6th
    Championship position 15th
    It will remain an enduring tragedy of the ill-fated McLaren-Honda revival that Fernando Alonso's talents spent three seasons going to waste. If you factor in Ferrari's woeful 2014 campaign, at least 79 grands prix have passed since Alonso last sat in a car worthy of his abilities.

    But he is still driving like the champion he is. Enthused by 2017's enhanced aerodynamics and faster cars, plus McLaren's impressive rate of development, Alonso was consistently excellent and regularly overachieved in a car lacking serious straightline speed.

    There were some comedy moments of radio frustration, and a few petulant outbursts - including retiring an apparently healthy car at Spa - but they are far outweighed by the way Alonso manhandled a difficult package and bent it to his iron will.

    Alonso was superb over the first four races, before Honda got the engine's woeful driveability under control, and qualifying seventh in Spain was outstanding - as were the laps that got him into Q3 in Brazil and put him fifth in Q1 in Mexico.

    Amazingly, Alonso almost scored a point in Canada, and was denied a big result in Singapore by Vettel's startline crash. The way Alonso clung to Massa in Brazil, and beat the Williams in Abu Dhabi, were classic examples of a fierce racing intellect undimmed by years of uncompetitive machinery.

    Alonso remains an irrepressible force to be reckoned with.



    2. Max Verstappen

    Team Red Bull
    Starts 20
    Wins 2
    Championship position 6th
    Verstappen was brilliant in 2017. Sixth in the world championship, 32 points behind Red Bull team-mate Ricciardo, simply doesn't do justice to Verstappen's season. Poor reliability ruined too many of his races, robbed him of points, and tested his patience to breaking point, but that couldn't disguise how consistently excellent he was.

    With more experience and a proper winter of preparation under his belt at Red Bull, Verstappen stepped up his game on Saturdays, comfortably beating Ricciardo - renowned as one of F1's elite qualifiers, and last year's outstanding driver - across the balance of the campaign.

    There is a very strong argument to be made for putting Verstappen at the top of this list. He won two races in the third-best car, and was roughly a match for Hamilton by pretty much every measure. That Verstappen misses out is down to the lower-pressure nature of his fight, plus the fact he continues to take major risks in battle - asking other drivers to jump out of his way or court calamity.

    It undid him in Spain, almost destroyed Red Bull's race entirely in Hungary, and Verstappen was fortunate not to puncture a tyre in collisions with Vettel in Canada and Mexico. Verstappen's instincts are highly attuned, and impressive, but they will be his undoing in a title fight if they are not tempered.

    This is arguably Verstappen's only weakness as he continues what appears to be an irrepressible rise to the summit of grand prix racing. He is not there yet, but it is surely only a matter of time.



    1. Lewis Hamilton

    Team Mercedes
    Starts 20
    Wins 9
    Championship position 1st
    Hamilton became a four-time world champion, broke Michael Schumacher's pole position record, and became Britain's most successful grand prix driver in 2017, but it was the way he achieved this success that stood out - and that elevates him to the #1 spot in these rankings.

    He stayed resolutely ice cool under pressure, in a way vanquished rival Vettel did not. Hamilton clawed back his early points deficit, and visibly raised his own game as the season wore on - leaving new team-mate Bottas trailing and Ferrari scrambling.

    Hamilton won six of eight races from Silverstone to Austin - dominating when he could, defending when he needed to, coming from behind if he had to, making the most of others' mistakes when they made them. This was Hamilton's little-heralded, Prost-like versatility and capacity for calculation on display.

    There were some wonderful performances. Hamilton was on another level in Britain, and his pole lap in Malaysia, despite having to revert to a dated aero package, was remarkable.



    Hamilton's stunning qualifying form was the foundation of his success yet again - 11 pole positions and 13 front row starts - and his well-established formidable skill as a racer was there whenever he needed it. What elevates this Hamilton season is the capacity he showed for self-improvement.

    It wasn't a perfect campaign by any means. Ferrari was faster in race trim early on, and Hamilton struggled with the W08's initial recalcitrance more than Bottas did. But Hamilton found a way to dig himself out of trouble.

    He focused on the weaknesses of his car, on his own weaknesses in driving that car, and neutralised them. He found a way to drive a car that wasn't always the best on the grid and made it look like it unquestionably was.

    Hamilton was as fast and as ruthless as ever this year, but he was also clever, and humble enough to recognise his own flaws. Finding a way to turn his season around, making himself stronger than ever before, is why he was F1's most outstanding driver in 2017, as well as its deserving champion.

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    Of the drivers to miss out on the top 10, Felipe Massa has the strongest case for inclusion. F1 2017's faster cars suited his committed driving style and he destroyed rookie Williams team-mate Lance Stroll in qualifying.

    Without a couple of unfortunate failures, Massa would have finished ninth in the world championship. He drove well enough to deserve further postponement of his retirement in all honesty, but he can leave with his head held high.

    Kimi Raikkonen enjoyed flashes of inspiration again this year - including a rare pole in Monaco - and earned yet another Ferrari contract extension. But in truth this was another underwhelming season for the 2007 world champion, who was twice called out by company president Sergio Marchionne for underperformance.

    Kevin Magnussen won few friends with his uncompromising approach to battle, but managed what predecessor Esteban Gutierrez could not by scoring points frequently for Haas. Magnussen also gave qualifying specialist Romain Grosjean the hurry-up. Grosjean dazzled on occasion again, but struggled from mid-season as the Haas picked up understeer.

    Mercedes junior Pascal Wehrlein made Q2 three times and scored five points in the worst car. Sadly, that wasn't enough to guarantee him a seat for 2018. Sauber duo Wehrlein and occasionally error-prone Marcus Ericsson were the most closely matched pairing on the grid in qualifying. Ericsson was unlucky not to score at least one point during his best season yet in F1.

    Of the rookies, McLaren's Stoffel Vandoorne was the most impressive, once Honda got its engine to run cleanly and Vandoorne found a way to adapt his driving to the car and not be overawed by his hero Alonso. Stroll endured a tough baptism at this level, struggling particularly to get up to speed in qualifying. He raced well several times, and qualifying fourth fastest in the rain at Monza suggests he is capable of special things, but there were far too many Q1 exits in a car that was consistently able to challenge for Q3.

    Sophomore Jolyon Palmer had it worse. His car was plagued by woeful unreliability, but he struggled to score and failed to put Renault team-mate Hulkenberg under any real pressure, so was dropped with four races left.

    Toro Rosso's Daniil Kvyat finally ran out of last chances with Red Bull and was also dropped before the season finished. Kvyat was undoubtedly fast at times, but inconsistent, didn't score enough, and finally got axed after crashing out in Singapore.

    Kvyat reappeared at Austin, signing off with a points finish, ironically, before making way for Super Formula graduate Pierre Gasly to return alongside Porsche World Endurance champion Brendon Hartley. Both did a solid job in difficult circumstances as Toro Rosso's season tailed off.
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  17. #8747
    TJzone TJ's Avatar
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    #teamtremolo
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  18. #8748
    Registered User travisaus's Avatar
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    that'd be the end of Martini then wouldn't it (or at least have to be a change in the agreed terms)?
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    will probably take it up the arse

  19. #8749
    TJzone TJ's Avatar
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    He brings 15 million Euro so they can afford to take a hit from martini (I believe their deal is only 10 a year!)
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  20. #8750
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    so much for williams' bullshit about not stooping down to the level of needing pay drivers

  21. #8751
    Registered User Milkman Don's Avatar
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    Nothing official from Williams yet...

    I did say earlier in thread Sirotkin is getting pushed hard for a seat, also Kubica didnít have enough money backing him.

    The Martini issue would be a MASSIVE loss to them, considering the Russian bank is well just a Russian bank. But you got to look at the budgets, allegedly Randstad are leaving with Massa but they have been long term Williams sponsors which doesnít make sense, along with Petrobras they will be losing a fair bit of sponsorship.

    Who knows, just seems odd to me. Williams need a strong number 1, unless Sirotkin has excelled massively in testing for them I canít see why he would be the pick unless itís money

  22. #8752
    Registered User lukevl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Ed View Post

    FIA just listed the top 10 overtakes of the year. 4 of them were Dan, 0 of them were Max.
    I was impressed with that too but to be fair one of those 4 was Dan being overtaken. Still 3 up on Max.

    And lol at one of the best overtakes being a Mercedes struggling to overtake a Mclaren

  23. #8753
    Registered User MZ21's Avatar
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    Max was in all 10 of the top 10 cunt blocking moves on the straight. Seriously can't wait to take the cunt out for those bullshit two movements.

  24. #8754
    Nay sayer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukevl View Post
    And lol at one of the best overtakes being a Mercedes struggling to overtake a Mclaren
    Yeah that amazed me too. Lewis's best over take of the year was him struggling to get past one of the slowest cars on the track.
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  25. #8755
    Registered tax offender SuperDave's Avatar
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    This survey on f1 support events was posted on r/f1, apparently a verified account.
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