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Thread: Haltech elite..

  1. #241
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    I'll do it if your not in a hurry
    im a cunt
    and apparently i dont know shit...

  2. #242
    \/ \/ My motivation \/ \/ ALLMTR's Avatar
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    Nah no rush, finish up on the roller coaster and we'll talk when you get back.

    Is the VCT an issue?

  3. #243
    Registered User Mr Purple's Avatar
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    I think I've already made my decision, I'll be needing a Haltech for the 6.1 hemi into the Valiant.

    Al has let me know the options are likely to anywhere be a 550 presumably running batch injection all the way up to the 2500. I'm leaning towards the 2500 because I don't understand how batch injection works at the moment, but would there be any other major advantage of spending the extra for a stockish motor that doesn't necessarily need DBW?

    There will be a few ancillaries such as A/C involved, and flex fuel is not really needed. Does the twin spark or any other issue with the hemi make much of a difference?

    Sorry for the stupid questions, my usual understanding of engine management is a side draft carb and distributor.

  4. #244
    Registered User JZK25's Avatar
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    If you are running AC and don't have any pressing budget issues then get a 2500. 550 is cheap because it has limited IO.
    David Fraser - Automotive Historian!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmuz View Post
    You can't polish a turd but you can put 600hp in it and laugh your fucking arse off coming past someone sideways at Powercruise.

  5. #245
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    At a min get a 750 so you have the fuel learning and a things like flex fuel, semi seq will make zero dofference for you
    im a cunt
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  6. #246
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALLMTR View Post
    Nah no rush, finish up on the roller coaster and we'll talk when you get back.

    Is the VCT an issue?
    Vct is no issue
    im a cunt
    and apparently i dont know shit...

  7. #247
    Registered User Mr Purple's Avatar
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    2500 it is, I thought so. Cheers!

  8. #248
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    750 runs my 1UZ perfectly in semi sequential. With boost / O2 / Idle control & flex. I cant imagine for an old shitbox you'd need more than a 750 honestly

    Will happily idle at 550rpm with 1000cc injectors from my retarded tinkering - been driving it for a month or so on the base VE map with no dramas.

    Spend your saved thousand bucks on injectors / intake manifold. My 2c anyway.

  9. #249
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    Emtron SL4 for sure. Wont need sequential and direct fire. Gobsmacking potential with it, there's no ECU even comparable or in the same ballpark in hardware and firmware at the price. Maybe adaptronic if you had enough old PC's to pull hard drive magnets from and your job is a head programmer at google by day, yet you liked a challenge at night.

    Edit, to slightly elaborate. I love the haltech. Just hate how it makes me feel restricted so much. It's awesome if you just want to do what haltech thinks you should do, which suits their target market perfectly, and limits retarded tech questions flooding their forums and phones etc. Hence the locked canbus, proprietary hardware accessories, locked down software, etc. But for 90% of people hitting the key and driving is a close experience to anything else and it does the jobs it's meant to do.

    A few comparisons.
    Similar price.
    1000% faster logging speed/data acquisition rate. 10x faster ffs. 2ms vs 600hz.
    3200% more logging capacity. 512kb vs 16mb
    60 times the amount of channels able to be logged. 10 channels vs 600 (maybe 60 you'd actively want)
    Twice the physical processors.
    4 Channels of oscilloscope
    Onboard accelerometer.
    Completely open customisable CAN, and selectable presets for just about everything off the shelf.
    1 knock channel, how worthwhile a single bank knock is on a V8 is questionable though.
    Independent crank and home signal grounds from all other grounding.

    Far more in's/outs in general. But it ain't a numbers game, the emtron digital inputs are also 10bit analogue inputs when selected.
    More Digital inputs 6 vs 2 and all are internal pullup resistor switchable, and analogue volt input capable. (flex sensor, wheel speeds, gearbox speed, etc). Hal is purely frequency in only.
    More Digital outputs. 10 vs 5. All PWM capable, and all high current analogue switching/map/tabled capable.
    2+3 vs 10 Analogue voltage inputs. 4 are switchable pullup vs hal's 2. Much of a muchness otherwise except the number.
    Dedicated ign relay output and ignition switch input, which saves both an output and input you'd use on the Hal if you did wire that way. Irrelevent if PDM.

    All the basics like closed loop everything you can imagine. But lets say you want rolling launch control, with a moderate amount of yaw or lateral acceleration, modelled versus an acceleration rate map of rear wheel speed, with a timed boost feed and allowing some tyrespin after 2 seconds? It's just a few clicks and two tables. Any oddball idea you have you can do, which I find hilarious to sit about pondering (if I'd not even use 1/10th of the capability).

    Software wise you'd be up and running with the haltech in an hour, it's so effortless and simple and guided and the help section is comprehensive. Emtron you'd triple that but from there it's mind boggling the amount of control you have and various load calculations and fuelling you can play with. Cal slots blow my mind still and I sit around bored at work just blown away at how much stuff they cram in.

    Verdict for me would be Dalesupport and Haltech doesn't make up for how superior the emtron is. But for simplicity the haltech can't be beaten and those new baby elites are game changing for the punch they pack, as long as you keep things simple and don't have an interest in having lots of data.

    750 with coolant temp, oil temp, and oil pressure and it's out of inputs. Let alone fuel pressure, coolant pressure, gearbox temp, gearbox pressure, etc.
    750 with flex fuel leaves you one speed input for an axle or undriven wheel.

    One advantage I suppose is the onboard map sensor for the haltech which saves you $50. Which if you want barometric compensation you can't use (emtron has onboard barometric sensor), but in Australia it's irrelevant unless you live up the snowy mountains maybe so baro compensation here is a bit of a wank. No-one could ever argue how useful and helpful Dalesupport is though, as important as the capability itself is the guy who can help make it work.
    Last edited by cracka; 27-10-16 at 05:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosshoggett View Post
    If your planing to drive this on the road and enjoy it, id suggest a second opinion, someone with a history in Australian Rally or Fink River . If your just playing dyno comps. Then ok

  10. #250
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    Speak to whoever is going to tune the car and see what they recommend. An ECU is only as good as the tuner behind it.

  11. #251
    Registered User Mr Purple's Avatar
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    The way I think of it is that once it's tuned that's it, done. I'm not going to fiddle with it or take anywhere near enough advantage of the extra features to justify the emtron. I'm just happy with something reliable, with good aftermarket support, that the people who will be working on the car recommend and are happy with.

    Flex fuel seems a bit unnecessary on a big dumb V8 but it would be nice to have that option. No point spending big on manifolds or intakes - there's none that offer a real improvement on this engine anyway.

    The 5% of Cracka's post I understand makes sense though! I just can't see myself needing that much data or control, I'm just aiming for skids and Cold Chisel in a suitably dodgy 70's environment. Thanks for the advice though!
    Last edited by Mr Purple; 27-10-16 at 08:38 PM.

  12. #252
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    As I said, you can't go wrong with a baby elite. It'll be the easiest part of any switch to EFI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosshoggett View Post
    If your planing to drive this on the road and enjoy it, id suggest a second opinion, someone with a history in Australian Rally or Fink River . If your just playing dyno comps. Then ok

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Purple View Post
    The way I think of it is that once it's tuned that's it, done. I'm not going to fiddle with it or take anywhere near enough advantage of the extra features to justify the emtron. I'm just happy with something reliable, with good aftermarket support, that the people who will be working on the car recommend and are happy with.

    Flex fuel seems a bit unnecessary on a big dumb V8 but it would be nice to have that option. No point spending big on manifolds or intakes - there's none that offer a real improvement on this engine anyway.

    The 5% of Cracka's post I understand makes sense though! I just can't see myself needing that much data or control, I'm just aiming for skids and Cold Chisel in a suitably dodgy 70's environment. Thanks for the advice though!
    Write a list of functions you want and shop that.

    I previously had a Haltech Sprint 500 on my datto which is a little limited with I/O. I used: Idle Control, Tacho ouput, Thermo Fan output, Boost Control. That was enough for an old car. If you have a/c, maybe you'll have power steering too, those things can use extra I/o

  14. #254
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Purple View Post
    The way I think of it is that once it's tuned that's it, done. I'm not going to fiddle with it or take anywhere near enough advantage of the extra features to justify the emtron. I'm just happy with something reliable, with good aftermarket support, that the people who will be working on the car recommend and are happy with.

    Flex fuel seems a bit unnecessary on a big dumb V8 but it would be nice to have that option. No point spending big on manifolds or intakes - there's none that offer a real improvement on this engine anyway.

    The 5% of Cracka's post I understand makes sense though! I just can't see myself needing that much data or control, I'm just aiming for skids and Cold Chisel in a suitably dodgy 70's environment. Thanks for the advice though!
    I don't mind what you choose, I'll get the best out of it for you I would go a Elite 2500 personally. Don't go half added like Jon and do batched stuff.
    Jason Broadhurst

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  15. #255
    Registered User Mr Purple's Avatar
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    It'll have power steering as well, so it does sound like the 2500 is the go. $1k extra isn't much in the scheme of things when you're spending more than that making shiny things shinier.

  16. #256
    Registered User JZK25's Avatar
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    Correct, if it's not a jew spec volvo build then spend the extra.


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    David Fraser - Automotive Historian!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmuz View Post
    You can't polish a turd but you can put 600hp in it and laugh your fucking arse off coming past someone sideways at Powercruise.

  17. #257
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Purple View Post
    It'll have power steering as well, so it does sound like the 2500 is the go. $1k extra isn't much in the scheme of things when you're spending more than that making shiny things shinier.
    It's a nice feeling knowing there are spare everything for if you decide to add a sensor or feature.
    Jason Broadhurst

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  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    As I said, you can't go wrong with a baby elite. It'll be the easiest part of any switch to EFI.
    In the emtron tune software I can see the custom user channels which allow some 4 variable if/or etc conditions to be used, but is there any options for more complex maths functions?

  19. #259
    Registered User burn is weird's Avatar
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    no, as there are no internal continuous variables (floating or integer) that can be written to. you need a few internal variable slots to store numbers so that you can cascade table outputs to another table input. you cannot for example have the result of user 1 table as an input axis on user 2 table. I can't see any way for this to happen and there is are also no math channels you can use/configure.

    you're stuck with 2 variable input tables and timers that can be triggered with up to 4 variable boolean logic. A or B and C or D.. etc.
    Last edited by burn is weird; 18-11-16 at 02:58 PM.

    Oo___oO


  20. #260
    \/ \/ My motivation \/ \/ ALLMTR's Avatar
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    Can the 2500 use electronic throttle input to activate a second fuel pump?
    "Reacher figured if he could put that drivetrain in some battered old sedan body, then that would be his kind of car"

    .

  21. #261
    Opposed to the PFAD Bill
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    Yes
    Your signature is too long.

  22. #262
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    Yeh easy.. you can use anything to do anything, I use 2 buttons on the steering wheel to control trans brake, bump, line lock, boost scramble etc, all do different things depending on when they are pressed etc
    im a cunt
    and apparently i dont know shit...

  23. #263
    \/ \/ My motivation \/ \/ ALLMTR's Avatar
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    Cool thanks. I only need the one way check valve on the secondary 044, yeah?
    "Reacher figured if he could put that drivetrain in some battered old sedan body, then that would be his kind of car"

    .

  24. #264
    Chopped BigMuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burn is weird View Post
    no, as there are no internal continuous variables (floating or integer) that can be written to. you need a few internal variable slots to store numbers so that you can cascade table outputs to another table input. you cannot for example have the result of user 1 table as an input axis on user 2 table. I can't see any way for this to happen and there is are also no math channels you can use/configure.

    you're stuck with 2 variable input tables and timers that can be triggered with up to 4 variable boolean logic. A or B and C or D.. etc.
    You're on the thin edge of the wedge now. I don't know the software but could you output a pwm off one table and use it wired to the input of another?
    Retard Honour Wall.
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    Rob Sloth Young did i ask for your opinion? no. i only want it for a paddock bomb. go play with traffic.
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    you stupid fucken imbicle.
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  25. #265
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    You could, but it would need a pullup resistor.

    Plus you would run out of already limited IO really fast and require additional ($$$) IO boxes.
    Jason Broadhurst

    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

  26. #266
    \/ \/ My motivation \/ \/ ALLMTR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10sec rx7 View Post
    Yeh easy.. you can use anything to do anything, I use 2 buttons on the steering wheel to control trans brake, bump, line lock, boost scramble etc, all do different things depending on when they are pressed etc
    Will the ecu provide power to the relays (fuel pumps/thermos) or ground them?
    "Reacher figured if he could put that drivetrain in some battered old sedan body, then that would be his kind of car"

    .

  27. #267
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    Ground, unless you use a stepper output then you can choose
    im a cunt
    and apparently i dont know shit...

  28. #268
    \/ \/ My motivation \/ \/ ALLMTR's Avatar
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    All good, thanks
    "Reacher figured if he could put that drivetrain in some battered old sedan body, then that would be his kind of car"

    .

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