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Thread: ECU Tunes and Installs

  1. #631
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trdee View Post
    Walbro 460. the lines and wiring are both stock, which wouldnt help, but the pressure is jumping around rather than gradually dropping off so i didnt think it would be reaching the limit of flow. could be wrong though..
    Compare the logs showing Fuel pressure and Injector PW

  2. #632
    Registered User lukevl's Avatar
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    These ones of Jason's are also non-ratcheting. I have a bluepoint set but they don't work as well as these. The machining quality of the dies makes a big difference and while mine are stamped the Engineer ones are machined or EDM or something. Very nice.

  3. #633
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    anyone got a p/n or link to buy those engineer crimpers?


    Quote Originally Posted by TRD-MX62 View Post
    Compare the logs showing Fuel pressure and Injector PW
    good idea, will do

  4. #634
    Registered User lukevl's Avatar
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  5. #635
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    That's the ones!
    Jason Broadhurst

    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

  6. #636
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    cheers.

    logs of injector duty on 98 and e85

    98


    e85


    Petrol peaked at 47.9%. E85 peaked at 70.9% The fuel pressure fluctuations start when the injector duty cycle is about 51% on E85, so above the duty cycle seen on 98 octane

    It has been suggested the fuel lines or filter could be blocked/too small etc for the flow. Thoughts? The outlet on the walbro 460 was the same size as the factory feed line so I thought nothing of it at the time


  7. #637
    . crack's Avatar
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    start fuel pump with engine off and gradually increase boost pressure to reg (e.g. with a regulated air compressor supply) to see if the problem repeats itself? not the same flow rate as when engine is running but the same pressure and if the problem repeats itself then you can start experimenting with stuff (e.g. bypass fuel filter, fuel return to bucket, volt meter across fuel pump, listen out for change in fuel pump noise, pinch fuel line and try to feel changes in pressure). i have no idea what the actual cause is sorry.

  8. #638
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    replace the filter add a second in-tank pump that comes in just over your 110kph cruise RPM

  9. #639
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    replace filter sure. second pump no - if my 460L/hr pump cant handle 300kw then the pump is broken lol

  10. #640
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crack View Post
    start fuel pump with engine off and gradually increase boost pressure to reg (e.g. with a regulated air compressor supply) to see if the problem repeats itself? not the same flow rate as when engine is running but the same pressure and if the problem repeats itself then you can start experimenting with stuff (e.g. bypass fuel filter, fuel return to bucket, volt meter across fuel pump, listen out for change in fuel pump noise, pinch fuel line and try to feel changes in pressure). i have no idea what the actual cause is sorry.
    all good suggestions cheers

  11. #641
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    What is the purple line? I can't read the legend (too low res)
    Jason Broadhurst

    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

  12. #642
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    purple is fuel pressure, as per my previous screenshots. as you can see, on the 98 run it is fairly stable, but on the e85 run it goes nuts in the top end

  13. #643
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    Have you checked a gauge, Vcc, 0v and signal yet?

    Are the AFR's, torque and power following that trend too?

    That's tripping balls.
    Jason Broadhurst

    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

  14. #644
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    Have not gone and checked the signal wiring but I dont think it is the issue as the fuel pressure is stable at all other times

    AFR does seem to go a bit lean on E85. It doesnt jump around like the fuel pressure, it just gets progressively leaner. Torque and power are smooth




    AFR is the red line on these two graphs. First is 98 octane. Second is E85





  15. #645
    Arrogant wankeler Slides's Avatar
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    Does it have a pulsation dampener on it? I'm guessing if you were able to log a decade higher frequency than engine speed you would see clear pulses following injection cycles where as now it is just "smoothed" time sliced aliasing giving you jibberish. Have seen similar with hydraulic solenoid cycling on longwall gear. Although the pump is rated higher flow at that operating pressure the inertia/momentum of the fluid and reg float positon in the system means you can't maintain steady pressure without larger and/or semi elastic lines or an accumulator/pulse damper near the cycling load.


    Several threads about this on rx7 club with guys running big single turbos and 1600-2400cc injectors. I think Andy msy have mentioned it in his fuel reg testing article as well.
    Last edited by Slides; 04-10-17 at 07:39 PM.

  16. #646
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trdee View Post
    replace filter sure. second pump no - if my 460L/hr pump cant handle 300kw then the pump is broken lol
    460L/hr at what pressure tho?

  17. #647
    Arrogant wankeler Slides's Avatar
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    I hate the non bosch suppliers, they only rate pumps at 3 bar half tge time which is useless on ethanol tubo motors.

  18. #648
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRD-MX62 View Post
    460L/hr at what pressure tho?


    The same pump is supporting 400kw on my mates engine with 35psi base pressure/30psi boost, so 75 total.

    yeah slides fuel pulsation has been suggested by andy, but he and others wondered at the fact that the pressure doesnt go up, only down.

  19. #649
    Arrogant wankeler Slides's Avatar
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    5V rail(s) in ecu/system voltage holds steady?

    Not seeing significantly higher peaks will be a combo of system dynamics and the sampling issue, if the reg is going to a sealed state as you are on the limit of dynamic flow it will probably bounce back a bit or float up with reestablished flow with injector (s) shutting from a seated position from the pressure drop so the "high" cycle is mechanically clipped by the diaphragm bouncing back rather than settling in the seat and stabilising before the positive flow/pressure wave from injector close.

    Probably worth running new pump wiring you could be loosing a fair wack of real flow there heating wires instead of turning the pump.
    Last edited by Slides; 04-10-17 at 11:55 PM.

  20. #650
    \_(ツ)_/ burn is weird's Avatar
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    there is no way you need another pump at 300kw. as stated the 460's should do 400kw worth of e85 without much trouble.

    was going to suggest finding out how much voltage was actually reaching the pump.

    those walbro axial pumps are quite inefficient and their pressure handling falls away big time at lower voltages.

    if you have a pwm speed controller driving it they also surge quite badly at low speeds.

    its the main reason I steered clear of them and went for a Pierburg screw pump.
    Last edited by burn is weird; 05-10-17 at 12:05 PM.

    Oo___oO


  21. #651
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    Voltage at pump is a good idea to check I guess. The bulkhead for the pump into the tank is not accessible without removing the tank from the car unfortunately, but I think the connector from the body loom to the tank sits just under the centre console so hopefully it isnt too hard to stick a multi there.

    I wonder how much an F1 style fuel flow sensor costs. Then I could directly check if I have a problem with flow haha

    edit - no PWM control. pump is run at full speed using a jaycar spec relay with some fat wiring from the battery to the terminal in the fusebox, after which it is the stock wiring in the body loom down to the fuel tank and pump

  22. #652
    \_(ツ)_/ burn is weird's Avatar
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    I looked into them a while ago, I was going to install one on the regulator return to the tank and run the fuel pump speed in closed loop to maintain a fixed tank return rate.

    unfortunately as soon as you say ethanol most of them are not suitable. and their un-restrictive flow rate limit isn't amazing.

    Oo___oO


  23. #653
    Registered User THE CHIEF's Avatar
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    Im going to go with standard wiring from the fuse box being the issue here. According to the above chart, at 25psi boost you would be drawing close to 18 amps. I don't know about Toyota's but with Nissans the first thing we do when running a decent size pump is upgrade the wiring and run a direct feed from the battery all the way to the tank. Even if it isn't your issue, probably a good idea to redo the wiring so its 100% capable of handling the load.

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