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Thread: '93 S10 Parts Hauler

  1. #31
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    I think I have an intercooler solution-it's not going to be fantastic, but it will be better than no intercooler at all. Core is only 120mmx120mmx30mm, 2-pass, but if I am careful I can run a 120mmx240mmx30mm 2-pass core too. The outlet of the blower is 100mmx100mm, and I can run a large heat exchanger up front, so I am going to go for it.

  2. #32
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    Spent some time today picking up some parts in the parts yard, couple wiring bits and connectors, few other bits. Waiting on an intercooler core, 120mmx120mmx42mm, two-pass unit.

    Tonight was spent reworking the supercharger case. Trimmed off the original throttle body flange, started opening up one side of the case.



    Here's the case trimmed, marked out and starting to open it up:



    Started mocking it up with a section of 3" tubing, getting a feel for how things are going to work out. Will need a bit of welding to get things radiused correctly.



    Another look:



    Positioned on top of the upper manifold, trying to get an idea of how the throttle body will set. It's a 75mm unit from a Northstar V8.



    A couple more hours has this fitted and fixed.

  3. #33
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    The intercooler core showed up today, so I'll have a go at fitting it. I am not sure how to make it removable, though, in case it needs replacement. That is going to be tough. Oh, and it's a 4-pass unit, which is not what I really wanted, but gives more residence time in the core, so I guess it's not that bad.

    More supercharger case re-working tonight. This is where I started out, getting a 75mm tube out of the side of the super.



    Now I gotta close up the back end, get it all sealed up. I missed a porting shot, minimal porting was done, just smoothed out the short side turn as best I could.

    Added some gussets, then added a bunch of filler to get material to smooth out the turn:



    Getting the back panel closed up, and trimmed up the gussets some:



    Little bit of a whack with a hammer, it's 0.120" thick aluminum sheet so the hammer marks will get planished out before the sanding starts:





    End result for the night-about 60% welded. Still have the tough work to do in the morning, and then I have to hunt down some new case bearings. INA, the manufacturer of the bearing, is under a lot of pressure from Eaton to not sell them anymore. They *can* be had, though.



    EDIT: Yeah, when you start getting tired, just quit welding. That looks like shit and now I want to go flap-disk all those welds off and do it again.
    Last edited by Xnke; 31-07-15 at 02:56 PM.

  4. #34
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    will the blower 'housing' distort with all that heat?

  5. #35
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    Possibly. It's not a big deal to clean up the bores after if there is a little distortion. I have so many M90's salvaged from the parts yard (current shelf count is 9+the one I'm working on) that I have made a jig out of two rotor packs, I removed one rotor from each. That way, you can drop a single rotor into the housing and check the housing for clearance to the rotor, without worrying about which rotor is rubbing, and where. It'll leave a witness mark, then you use some 600 grit wet-or-dry to rub the housing down where it touches, till you get the required rotor clearance. I normally wash the housing down, then put 3-5 layers of clear cellophane tape onto the rotor edge. Just the one edge, so I can slide the rotor in with the tape not touching incase the rotors are a bit snug, (each layer is about 0.001", nominal radial clearance is 0.003", nominal end clearance 0.005") and I can check the case for rotor clearance too.

    Once both single-rotor assemblies pass the tape test, I then drop the housings original rotor pack into it and make sure it rotates smoothly. So far, of the three M90 cases I've modified, only one has needed a little rub-down with some 600 grit paper, the other two I could not measure any distortion.

    Now, if you're welding the silencer holes shut in the bottom of the case, you WILL distort the case and it WILL need a touch up. It's not the end of the world, and it's not difficult to do. Just takes patience and a spare rotor pack and a roll of tape.
    Last edited by Xnke; 31-07-15 at 04:04 PM.

  6. #36
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    Goofed around some more on this tonight. Here's the intercooler core, and yes, it's not very big. The core area is slightly larger than the supercharger outlet area.





    Those inlets are too small-6mm. And it's a 4-pass core, instead of the 2-pass that I thought I was getting.

    So, fix the inlets...First thing is to close up the old holes and weld a thick pad of aluminum that I can either drill and tap, or weld a tube onto.



    Checking to see how it fits down in the lower half-If I raised it up 5/8" of an inch it will fit absolutely fine. I am pretty sure I know how I'll do this now. Gonna be a lot of drilled and tapped holes...



    Had to pull the header jig off the temporary work table so I could mock up the belt drive-I can easily get the supercharger into place where the factory nosedrive will line up. I am VERY tempted to just make a pattern and pour a new casting, that will accept the supercharger mounting plate. This will let me use a bolt-on plate and for FWD or transverse mounted engines, and an un-modified supercharger could be used. For longitudinal applications, though, there isn't any room without chopping up the firewall. The supercharger case would have to be modified.





    I did yank that bypass pipe out today. It just isn't going to work for what I need it for and I'm using the CamaroBird bypass in the engine block, all that pipe does is recirculate water to the inlet of the water pump until the engine warms up-basically a thermostatic bypass. Once the engine is up to temperature and the main thermostat starts to open, the bypass pipe gets closed off and forces all the coolant to run through the radiator. This speeds up warmup times and gets the engine into closed-loop faster, which means lower emissions.

    I will have to drill and tap for the heater hoses. Should just be one hose from the water pump, and one hose from just behind the thermostat, I would think...

    Also just realizing that while the Camaro accessories will simplify belt routing, they also mean giving up the clutch-driven fan of the S10 truck, because it doesn't line up. That sucks. That engine driven fan just will NOT let the engine overheat, no matter what. I do have a Volvo 960 Turbo 16" 2-speed electric fan, though, so and it moves serious, serious air. It had to, to pull air through the A/C core, intercooler, oil cooler, and radiator on the Volvo.

    Next on the list of things to fix is the temperature sending unit for the dash gauge. The iron head and aluminum gen2 engines have a port in the corner of the cylinder head, and the computer pulled temperature from the thermostat housing. I am planning to fit the stock LS1 temp sensor in the thermostat housing, and the gauge sending unit will most likely be another LS1 sensor installed into the V6 location, which is in the front of the right cylinder head. I am under the impression that the transfer curves for the two sensors are identical, GM uses the same sensor for oil temp, water temp, intake air temp, etc. Only difference is the two pin sensor needs one pin grounded to the block for the gauge to work.
    Last edited by Xnke; 01-08-15 at 02:53 PM.

  7. #37
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    Found a new cleaner for my aluminum parts-works pretty sweet. Zep Orange Clean, doesn't contain any of the acids or bases that cause the white-powder corrosion on aluminum. Works best for me heated to about 120F, so hot tap-water hot. Literally strips away grease and oil soaked into the pores, but doesn't get real deep-it will NOT replace a bake-out or torch-heating for weld prep. Found that out doing the valve cover, had to weld a 6mm thick plate over an old PCV hole so I can fit a new PCV valve, the original was riveted into place and was a known issue with the engine in its OEM application. By heating the parts up to 200F or so and washing in room-temp Zep, the grease got stripped out to welding-clean. Still didn't remove the intake port tar, but it did convert it to a crispy, flaky carbon-like deposit, that brushed out pretty well.

    Since the heads needed a valve job anyway, I set the flow bench up in %Flow and started working on the intake port. I still don't have my calibrated venturis made, so I can only measure gains against the fixed orifice plate. I have what the stock heads flowed on a different bench on a different day, but using a clean valve and clean stock port, on the factory valve job, I set a baseline, then worked the port to produce a fair increase in flow while only removing 2.1CC's of material. Low-lift flow didn't suffer any, flow at 0.250" lift picked up 14%, and flow at 0.500" lift picked up 16%. Port is a little howly at 0.500" lift. At 0.550" lift it is louder, same pitch, and flow only picks up about 4% over stock. At least it didn't loose any! Stock, the port was quiet at all lifts. I did not open the gasket face of the port up any at all, MCSA is unchanged from stock. Mostly reduced and re-shaped the valve guide boss, the rest of the port just needed a little cleaning up of casting flaws around the valve seat. Port hasn't been cartridge-rolled yet, so it's right off the carbide. I didn't nick up the stock seats, so this is all on a stock valve job so far. The combustion chamber needs some attention, lots of sharp edges left over from the factory seat cutter, basically a sharp ring all the way round the valve on the intake. Exhaust valve has a nice smooth cut though, on most of the chambers. I will clean off the sharp edge and that's it for the chamber.







    Found out that Comp Cams PN 26986 springs will fit the stock seats/seals/retainers, which is nice. They seem to be a universal spring with a 1" ID and 1.45" OD at the base, and with the 0.650" ID at the top, LS1-style retainers work too. PAC-1286 is the same spring, Scorpion Racing SRP-1286 is the same spring. LS6 springs can be made to fit by using LS spring seats with the ID opened up, plus some 4-cylinder valve seals, but lift is limited to 0.490" before coil bind becomes an issue...I would have thought they would do better than that. Installed height is shorter by 0.060" though so it shouldn't be a surprise. The Comp springs are slightly over budget at this point, but something will have to happen, as the stock springs checked out all over the place for spring rate...out of 12 springs, the deviation from mean was 22%.
    Last edited by Xnke; 11-08-15 at 03:33 PM.

  8. #38
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    SO I finished up the intakes, cleaned up the deep ridge around the intake port in the chamber, cleaned off a burr around all the spark plug threads, and end result is that at 0.500" lift the head with a 1/2" radius inlet and the stock valve job flows 252CFM, going by my bench saying +16% and the stock head numbers I have. I'm happy with that. Real Fuckin' Happy with that. The exhaust has not responded much at all to porting, I gained 4-5% at all lifts up to 0.550" lift by streamlining the valve guide-the port itself is actually very clean cast with no ridges or grotesque bumps like the intake port had. Port volume is also very small, half of the roof of the port has a big flow guide bulge in it, pushing flow to the outside radius. It *looks* like there is a lot of room to work in more CSA and flow rate, but I haven't got the balls to cut out 5cc's of port roof without taking a LOT of measurements and getting a few outside opinions.

    Then I bolt the lower intake up to see how the intake is going to affect things and flow drops to 185.5CFM....argh. I can't see how the intake is so restrictive, really, it's a fairly constant CSA, from the port upwards, until you get to the 70* turn to go vertical. Turn radius is about 2", and the port goes from a tall rectangle to a flattened oval of slightly more CSA. Will get photos tonight and see what can be done with it, I'd like to get flow with the intake on up to at least 210CFM if possible. With the intake manifold on, though, the howl at 0.500" lift went silent, so that's a good thing. Hopefully a good scrubbing-out with a cartridge roll and flap wheel will free up some flow.
    Last edited by Xnke; 17-08-15 at 03:03 AM.

  9. #39
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    Did another flow-test today, but this time I bolted on the upper intake manifold, flow picked up some-so the issue is in the turn area, not the long straight section of the port. I spent some time cleaning up and widening the "floor" of the turn, and got it up to 214CFM with the intake fitted. That doesn't hurt so bad. Theoretically, cammed properly and with a good exhaust manifold it could go 300HP at the crank without the blower. Not bad for 208 inches of displacement.

    Maybe someday this thing will actually get assembled and run.

  10. #40
    "The bitches, are wet" Sketchy's Avatar
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    Keep chugging away mate, I'd really like to hear this thing at full tilt rpm with blower whine starting bushfires all over the place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimi View Post
    80mm of penetration isn't bad, i wish i had that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnitzelburger View Post
    My entire working career pretty much consists of suckin dick and takin names.

    Sometimes im too busy to take names.

  11. #41
    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    Fuck Xnke, you don't do things by halves mate!

  12. #42
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    Sure I do. Fuck the 200,000 mile T-5 transmission in the truck, that bastard isn't getting a rebuild until it prooves that it can handle the power as-is. I can't find the shift gates half the time, the bushings are so worn out, but the truck can hold an NV3550 or if I really get the shits with it I'll cut-and-shut the bellhousing onto something worthwhile.

    That and the 10-bolt GM corporate differential isn't fantastically strong...but there is a ford 8.8 in the garage, the spring perches are only 0.5" wider apart. It'll fit.

    Only the engine and engine bay is getting done, If I have to cut up the hood then I'll cut up the hood but I want the outside of the truck to look like the shitbox it is. Then I'll fit some Mickeys on the back and we'll go choppin' folks at the Mcdonald's drive-thru.

  13. #43
    "The bitches, are wet" Sketchy's Avatar
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    You could dub it the MangTruck or MooTruck given its v6 GM based powerplant
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimi View Post
    80mm of penetration isn't bad, i wish i had that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnitzelburger View Post
    My entire working career pretty much consists of suckin dick and takin names.

    Sometimes im too busy to take names.

  14. #44
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    We'll see how the cam sounds-I am thinking it'll sound a little better than the usual moo-mang 3800. The principle of the name is sound though-these engines are in everything.


    On second thought, MangTruck has a ring to it.

  15. #45
    Arrogant wankeler Slides's Avatar
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    Solid effort. I love seeing how much you get done without bulk cash.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosurfer View Post
    Go fuck yourself cunts you to fatboy you cunts wanna bring up wifes as usual im just defending myself.
    Then you all get all teary gang up and attack like a bunch of lebbos that see an open oppertunity pretty
    much a bunch of gutless cunts that think like sheep. And if he is a ugly cunt and has a looker than he must have
    lots of $$$$ which speaks for itself. So as I said well and truly get fucked cunts.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slides View Post
    Solid effort. I love seeing how much you get done without bulk cash.
    Total outlay so far has been under 1000$ for all the rebuild parts, fluids/oil/filters, the engine core and accessories, and all the extra bits of aluminum and the supercharger. Actually at 889$ right now, still need to buy a fuel pump, intercooler pump, some intercooler hoses, fuel injectors, an airbox, and some heavy starter wire so I can move the battery out of the way.

    I am pretty sure I can have it in the truck and boosted for 1200$. That's only three times what I paid for the whole truck so we're doing good!

  18. #48
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    Is that heat exchanger a radiator for watercooled pit bikes?
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slides View Post
    Solid effort. I love seeing how much you get done without bulk cash.
    X2 imagine if xnke and skompa combined
    Last edited by clutch-monkey; 27-08-15 at 08:41 AM.

  20. #50
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    It's actually a water-cooled laser heat exchanger. Gotta stop and build a set of datsun headers this weekend, so no progress on this for a bit.

  21. #51
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    Just picked up some l67 injectors, mine are marked 0280155811, should be 350cc/min at 3bar fuel pressure. Bosch design 3's so should be OK.

    Also got another fuel rail With integrated regulator, but it may be easier to just slap one of my firewall mount units on the thing. I use a bosch-type drop in in a housing I turn on the lathe.

    Did some more thinking today-if I cut the top of the valve guides down in diameter from 0.557" to 0.533" then I can use LS1 valve stem seals and valve springs-much cheaper.

    valve stem seals for this bitch are 42$ a set of fucking 12....LS1 seals with the integrated spring seats are only 88 cents each...
    Last edited by Xnke; 06-09-15 at 04:12 PM.

  22. #52
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    Started cutting out collector parts tonight with the new cut-off saw. Blade wobble makes it a cut-and-grind fit, not exactly repeatable. If I aim for 15*, I get between 13* and 15*, so at least I can clean up the off angles with a grinder to make everything fit properly. Went 3 for 4 tonight on collector parts. Once I cut out six and make them match up, I'll start welding them up.

    I have been thinking more and more about how this is only a two-bolt engine block and they do have issues with walking the caps around, so a four-bolt conversion appeals to me. I found this in the Chevy Power Service Manual, information on the Bow Tie competition racing V6/60* aluminum block:



    The part numbers for JUST the 4-bolt replacement main caps are 10051177 for the #2 main cap and 10051178 for the #3 cap with the thrust bearing. Scoggin-Dicky Parts Center (one of the largest GM Performance Division stocking dealers) says both part numbers are still available, so I am hopeful that I can grab them fairly inexpensively and fit them to my block. Only issue is that I've already fitted the new cam bearings, and the line hone afterward would leave crap in the oil passages. I'd have to fit plugs in the block and then scrub the shit out of it again, and probably knock the new cam bearings out just to get it clean afterward.

    Day work has been slow lately so I agreed to re-wire a 1968 Cessna 172 Skyhawk airplane, same as wiring up a car but everything has to have a MIL or STC or AN standard attached to it, everything is safety wired or riveted, and you may not drill or punch holes in the airframe. Makes it a pain to route wire, especially since zip-ties are not allowed-must be laced with lacing cord tied as per NASA-STD-8739.4. (which means Chicago stitching...the way I was taught anyway so NBD there.)

    I am working on making up a jig to machine the tops of the valve guides down to the LS1 size so I can take advantage of the large aftermarket of LS1 springs out there-they're much cheaper than the bespoke PAC-1286, which is the only spring that will fit the stock guides. Also, as I said before...fucking 42$ for valve stem seals????

  23. #53
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    Fuck you, GM, for not producing accurate wiring diagrams.

    96 terminal positions. 59 positions labeled in diagram. 1 wire not present. 11 wires present and not labeled. Not labled on the 94 F-body, 95 F-body, 94 L-body, 95 L-body, or any of the N or W body variants.



    But, after spending a few hours working out what wire does what, I did fire it up and get the ECU talking to the laptop on the bench. Worked out that I can crack open the ECU, remove the 1K pull-down resistor from pin A28, add back a 270K pull-down, add a wire to that position in the plug, and tell the ECU to use that input as a wideband O2 sensor input. Also, can use the EGR #1 output to control the boost bypass solenoid, EGR #2 can control the intercooler pump, and I have a spare output in EGR #3.

    Alternator can be shut off at WOT, can adjust the sync angle for the cam position sensor to get the sequential injection timed properly to the new cam, and if this was a turbo build I could use the crankshaft and VSS sensors to work out boost-by-gear boost control, again by using EGR #3 to run the boost control valve. The ECU already works out what gear the trans is in on its own, it is a simple matter to re-arrange the EGR table to tie that output to what gear the ECU thinks the transmission is in.

    Nifty ECU for the 15$ I spent on it.
    Last edited by Xnke; 18-09-15 at 05:38 PM.

  24. #54
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    Silly USB->TTL cable that I ordered weeks ago as an "FTDI" chipset (known to work with these ecus) turned out to be just another crappy "Prolific" chipset (known to NOT work). I just noticed when I was trying to work out why the ECU keeps conking out, and saw windows ID it when I plugged in the cable. It connects, talks a bit, then drops out. Stays hooked up ALMOST long enough to get a download, but will drop out just in time to brick the ECU. Lucky for me I'm used to this kinda thing and can fix it. As soon as the new cable comes in, I'll have the ECU hooked up on the bench *correctly* and start poking around some more.

    Also got valve springs and valve stem seals on the way-I cobbled a simple cutter with a pilot on it to cut the tops of the guides down for LS1-style springs and seals.

    Still need to buy:

    Fuel pump-am thinking Delco EP381 as it's direct fit and was OE for the Syclone.
    Intercooler pump-Bosch or something.
    Pushrods-Probably Smith Bros.
    Header tubing-85$ from CRMB, my normal supplier.
    Box of screws-AKA floorsweepings.
    Some idler pulley from something-Maybe bolt up a Subaru EJ water pump and check off the intercooler pump at the same time?
    Last edited by Xnke; 19-09-15 at 05:20 PM.

  25. #55
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    Got the ECU un-bricked today, now it chatters normally on the ALDL lines. Hoping to get a little work done on this tonight, tomarrow is back to work straightening cars and hopefully some money comes in to buy the approx 400$ worth of crap needed to get the MangTruck going.

    400$ could buy some shiny things, though...really shiny, red-haired things...

  26. #56
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    Yeap fuckit, racetruck.


    goddamn deer.

  27. #57
    Defective Faux Forg's Avatar
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    Did you bend it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin
    Chickens will slip under water in the cover of darkness like a seal team and FUCK YOU UP.

  28. #58
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    I was sitting at a stoplight and got headbutted by a deer in the ONLY STRAIGHT PANEL on the WHOLE FUCKING TRUCK. It was caved in good, I pushed it back out. If it was shiny paint, then I would have been less pissed off because I could fix it better. Now the passenger side door looks like the rest of the truck, which is shit because I JUST put that door on there when I bought it. It was a spare I had leftover from fleet maintenance.

    Pissed me off. Now I don't give a shit about hacking up the hood or fixing the little rust hole in the cab corner or anything else. It's gonna howl tires from the time I get it it till the time I get a ticket. Originally, it was gonna howl tires and I was going to paint the truck white again, one panel at a time...then make it my work truck for the PDR business. I still might, but that's not the new plan.

  29. #59
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    Since I go pissed off about it, I started working on the intake some more.

    First thing to do is get it cleaned up a bit and start measuring how far off I was with the angle grinder.



    It was +/- 40 thou, spent thirty minutes with a file and got it to this point:



    Then I welded up this frame, it's 0.750" tall and 0.500" thick bar, and it actually came out pretty square. A little clean-up on the welding and it was ready to be welded to the top of the intake casting.



    Yes, I did fuck up. The sharp-eyed ones of you will notice that the intake says "front" and the frame says "back". No, it doesn't matter.

    The small hole in front was easily filled in, didn't take any photos. The bigger hole in the back I did take some photos of.



    I used some 0.213" thick plate that was in the big stack from page 1, it's thicker than the casting but I didn't have anymore of the 0.127" plate I used on the front. It'll be fine.



    When I'm not welding on shitty castings, I can go OK with the TIG with a little rum in me. None of that white rum shit, though.



    Now that the frame is welded on, I unbolted it from the lower intake manifold and measured how far it sprung during welding. The total out-of-flat was decent, pulled 0.013" total. That's totally workable, I'm gonna run it over to a buddy with a milling machine and have him skim it flat. Yeah, I *could* do it in the shop but the machined face on the bottom is slightly higher than the lowest part of the intake, so I'd have to find two slabs of plate that are parallel and flat, fit them both on the surface plate, and lap the intake against the plates...just more trouble than it's worth. Once the intake is flat and parallel then I'll start drilling and tapping the 20-something holes in the frame on top, that the supercharger plate will be bolted to. Once the plate is bolted down, I'll have to get the heads on the block and the lower intake manifold fitted, and get all the accessory drive bolted up, so I can get the supercharger drive pulley aligned and square. Once that's done and the super is fitted to the top plate, I can start on the headers.

    There's no exterior differences between the 3.4L aluminum-headed hybrid I'm building, and the 2.8L iron-headed boatanchor in the truck, aside from the accessory drive. Originally, when the 3.4L engine still had iron heads on it, the exhaust manifolds were identical. I've dummied up the headers in PVC on the truck, so I'm pretty sure I won't have to clearance the truck with the BFH later when I go to bolt the new engine into place. If I have to apply the BFH, well, then I have to apply the BFH.

  30. #60
    i dig holes angry_rednut's Avatar
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    This is cool. Subscribed.

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