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Thread: '93 S10 Parts Hauler

  1. #61
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    Valve springs showed up today, and I decided 14 screws holding the upper plate to the middle-manifold would be enough....because I already have 14 screws the right size. Once I get the top plate bolted to the manifold then I have to decide on actually assembling the thing, or trying to dummy everything up. The crankshaft is the only thing I really worry about, because I could just leave the block empty for the dummy-up, but I need to know exactly where the damper will be so I can work out the best possible belt routing. Once the belt route is set then I can make the water neck and intake piping without having to worry about parking my radiator hose in the middle of the belt.

  2. #62
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    Got the ECU talking nicely tonight, have been making the adjustments needed to control the 3.4L engine vs the 3.1 the ECM originally controlled, turned off Passkey-II, re-tasked the EGR but turned it off for safety, few other things.

    Got the boost code turned on, however I thought a 16x16 table was big-I'm tuning a 17x47 table for boost in both spark and fueling now.

    There is a crapload of crap to adjust in this ECU, and sooooo much stuff that doesn't need screwed with. (over 1100 tables/scalars/flags.)

  3. #63
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    Got with the guy writing ECU code for me, set up a few more things tonight. Still a lot more to go and I have to turn off all the 4L60E code and turn on all the manual trans code, which includes a two-step rev limiter and launch control (Part of the factory codebase, no less...)

    Setup the following:

    Injector flow rate
    Injector feed voltage compensation table
    Injector low-pulsewidth linearity table (255 cells that ranged from 0.00 to 0.04...WTH, Delco??? Even your OBD-II only uses 10 cells...)
    Set for 2Bar MAP sensor
    Put the first column into the Boost VE table
    Adjusted cylinder displacement for the 3.1-->3.4L difference

    Finally got the cam specs nailed down with the grinder. 266*/278* seat duration, 218*/222* at 0.050" lift, 0.440"/0.467" max lift cut on 114* LSA, ICL 108*. Should have this back and ready to go into the engine in two weeks. After I get the camshaft back, the only missing engine parts are pushrods, windage tray, and oil pan. Other misc parts I have to source/build yet are intercooler lines, pump, and tank, exhaust headers, and fuel pump.

    The list of "Do Not Have" is getting shorter!

  4. #64
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    Got the upper intake manifold and supercharger mounting plate drilled, tapped, and countersunk today for the supercharger mounting plate. I may start assembling the engine next week, and just use the camaro oil pan to keep the sump covered and clean until I can buy another S10 oil pan.



    Just need the oil pan and to make new pushrods, and that'll have the engine assembled all the way up to the lower intake manifold. That's the stage I need to get to in order to set the belt drive up and the super positioned properly on the manifold. Until I have the supercharger position nailed down, I can't machine for the intercooler core.

    Of course I could just dummy everything up...which is the right way to do this.

  5. #65
    "The bitches, are wet" Sketchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    Got with the guy writing ECU code for me, set up a few more things tonight. Still a lot more to go and I have to turn off all the 4L60E code and turn on all the manual trans code, which includes a two-step rev limiter and launch control (Part of the factory codebase, no less...)
    That's well cool, how old is the ECU you're using?
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  6. #66
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    1994/1995. The dreaded "OBD 1.5" boxes....they're pure OBD1 but they have OBD2 level engine control. Was a "stepping stone" computer for the V6 and LT1 engines in the camaro/firebird and the V6 version was used in W, L, N, and F body cars. It's a dual-processor version of the "P6" computers, flash based so no chips to burn, coded as the "P66" engine control computer. I have no idea if it made it to AU in anything.



    That's the first fifteen minutes worth of futzing around in the tables, the list on the left side is a tiny part of all the stuff you control.
    Last edited by Xnke; 28-09-15 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #67
    Shaved cunt Andrew Bolt's Avatar
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    I enjoy reading through your threads. Always very interesting.
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  8. #68
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    They're a good outlet for me-I start talking around here and people start falling asleep. It has made for a very lonely life, but I find if I just put it on the internet I can fake my way through a normal conversation in the real world much easier.

    Oh, by the way the cam lift I posted is wrong-that lift is for a 1.5 rocker arm. Mine are 1.6's, so should be 0.469/0.498 lift. If I can find a 1.5 rocker of the correct type, or fit a 1.7 rocker from an LS1 onto the V6 pedestal, then I can even 'em up a bit, as the intake could use some more lift. A 1.7 intake rocker would have both valves lifted to 0.498" off the seat, and I may check into fitting the LS1 rocker arm tomorrow since I have a set of them on my desk next to me right now.
    Last edited by Xnke; 28-09-15 at 06:46 PM.

  9. #69
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    Forgot to do the rocker arm thing today. I'll get around to it...

    I did assemble the Tower Of Power today, needed to figure out what to get to make the throttle body fit where it belongs. This may be a wide flat cowl hood when I finally get it on there...

    Gonna have to address this problem...



    It's possible I'll need to add a little metal to the back of the base plate, but more likely I will need to add a bolt boss to the supercharger case. It's doable.

    And this is why. The bypass valve pretty much straddles this screw, there's plenty open area there to flow air through but I'll have to bevel and radius the opening to make airflow smooth, to keep bypass noise down. I didn't do this on the datsun and the bypass valve is FUCKING LOUD.



    I did get the intercooler core mounted, just gotta work out the tubing inside the intake manifold. May get interesting.



    The Tower, minus the cylinder head I didn't need. I may bolt it up tomarrow to level things out, but for what I needed, it was just more bolts.



    And this is where I want the throttle body to sit, If I can get it here then I will have absolutely no problem removing the valve cover without unbolting the supercharger. Will take a 135 or 180* 3" aluminum bend, Or I could be a cheap bastard and pie-cut it.



    If I were to pie-cut it it would be hours of grinding and sanding inside the bend to get it smooth, so it may be worth it just to get an aluminum bend when I order more exhaust parts.

  10. #70
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    As I sit here looking at those photos, I am asking myself if those intake manifolds need to be coated. I'm thinking thermal barrier coating on the bottom of the lower intake, and high thermal dispersion coating (....flat black) on the upper intake and the exposed side of the lower intake.

    I've done coatings before, but I'd want to find a good bake-out oven to degrease these parts with. Even have a long soak in hot degreaser they still oozed oil when welded on.

  11. #71
    Unregistered User Permit Roadsailing's Avatar
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    Know anyone with a vacuum oven? should suck the oil out while leaving the sealant/resin in.

  12. #72
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    Here are some photos of the rocker geometry when using LS1 1.7 ratio rockers instead of the stock 1.6's. I'd have to make new offset trunnions for these to work for me. The tests were done from 0 lift to 0.510" lift, because the rocker hits the support stand at 0.510" lift.

    Contact pad of the rocker arm itself:



    Wipe pattern on valve stem (all the way to the left side...)



    Zero lift:





    0.400" lift:



    0.510" lift:



    Rocker fulcrum really needs to move away from the valve about 140 thou, I think.

  13. #73
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    Just had an epiphany. I don't need to re-drill the holes, just slot the holes in the rocker pedestal and the trunnion. They don't have to move much.

    The wipe pattern is pretty wide still but it's centered up over the valve tip, so once they're positioned fore-and-aft, I can adjust them up and down (looks to me like up slightly would help, and up is the easy way to go-shims) and get the geometry dialed in.

    This is the stock position, pushing it back 0.100" got me close on the wipe pattern.



    This is what the rocker tip looks like-Much better!

    Zero Lift:



    0.250" lift:



    0.510" lift:



    Now, it's not correct yet but the pattern is well centered, just wide. It doesn't encroach on the outside 0.020" of the valve stem though. If slotting the rocker arm hole is workable then it is possible to get the rocker arm in the correct location, I think.

  14. #74
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    Gave up on the rocker ratio change-finally got some results out of the exhaust and they just need the extra lift compared to the intake. No reason to change the rocker ratio.

    Lapped in all the intake valves, all the seats and valves cleaned up seconds of lapping so they seem fine. halfway to skipping a valve job!

    Started to lap the exhaust valves, after a minute of lapping the first seat cleaned up fine, but the valve itself was a pitted, nasty mess. New exhaust valves are 60$. I didn't lap the other five, no need to.

    Need to come up with another 300$ for a proper valve job and 90$ for new valves...

  15. #75
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    I washed the truck today. That is all.

    Starting a new job for the winter months so more money coming in...I have five shopping carts saved at Rockauto that total up to oh...1200$ for the parts I *want* to replace, or need to replace.

    Things like brakes, suspension bushings, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, etc

    Then there's the 150$ worth of other junk that is just engine-fitting related.

  16. #76
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    Did you say LT1 engine electrics/electronics?

    I will never say you do things the easy way Xnke.

  17. #77
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    The V6 version of them, yeah.

  18. #78
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    Fitted crankshaft to the block tonight, crank is 0.010" under on the mains and rods according to the box. Get it out, it's 0.0108" on one of the mains...swapped the shells around and still needed to get out the bearing scraper to get clearance right.

    Bolted up the flywheel and damper and gave it a one-finger flick, three full rotations and a bit, alright-alright-alright. Pulled the damper and flywheel off, pulled all the main caps and wiped oil off the crank mains, assembly lubed the bearings and bolted it all back up and put the rear main seal in.

    So, so far the new crank is straight and the main bearings are all lined up nicely. Need to scrub the connecting rods down and mate them to their pistons tomorrow, maybe. Maybe later tonight.

  19. #79
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    So far today, I've sanded down the tops of my pistons to get them to zero deck, they were originally 0.015" out of the hole and that was a little much for me, considering the headgasket is only 0.040" thick.

    I still need to set the thrust clearance on the crank, as it's slightly too tight, and gap all the rings, but at that point I'll have the rotating assembly installed into the cylinder block. After that, I need to finish the heads. I'm trying my best to NOT have to pay for a full valve job, as the heads don't really need it as bad as they just need new valves. I have a set of heads that had a valve job done already, I will see if those exhaust valves will fit. If they'll lap in cleanly without tearing up the seats, then I'll be valve stem seals away from assembling the heads. Cam should arrive in a week, so at that point I'm pushrods away from final assembly.

    Need to finish scrubbing the piss out of the accessory drive, and I need to pull the old power steering pump off to do it. I have a new pump on the truck already, but I need to use the Camarobird pump reservoir, which got a little roughed up and will need to be straightened. Only a small dent and some scratches, maybe I could buy one but I am being cheap here.

    Rods need to be scrubbed down again too, although I am very seriously considering new rods, I don't like the look of these stockers and I really don't like the rod bolts, for such a decent engine architecture they pulled the rod and rod bolt design from the 50's.

  20. #80
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    You sanded your pistons?
    Retard Honour Wall.
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  21. #81
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    This is pretty incredible work. Impressed!
    LESS WEIGHT MEANS MORE FAST!

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmuz View Post
    You sanded your pistons?
    Yes, I sanded the tops of the pistons to remove 0.015" of aluminum. I do not have a mill here, only a lathe, so I slapped some 150 grit paper down on the surface plate and went at it. For six pistons, took half an hour. I'd have been at least an hour to make a jig for turning the pistons in the lathe. Pistons are not round nor cylindrical, so chucking in the lathe is not just tossing them into the 3-jaw and whacking away. Grabbing them on the OD with the lathe chuck will distort the skirts, so I'd have to either turn a split sleeve for them to fit in, or make an insert to fit on the faceplate that would center up the piston from inside the bottom of the skirt and then use an eye bolt with the wrist pin through it to hold them to the plate. Furthermore, the bottom of the piston isn't flat, so more work to make a jig there.

    Flip 'em upside down, sand the top down for proper compression height, and wash'em. Job done. Careful measuring and counting your strokes makes it easy to hit within 0.001". Not recommended if you need to take off a lot, or you aren't patient and willing to ruin one piston learning. I've done it this way more than a few times to get things where I want them.

    Set the ring gaps tonight before dinner, I'm going to finish dinner then go back out and scrub rods, assemble pistons on rods and try to get the lot of them into the block tonight.

  23. #83
    Registered User E-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmuz View Post
    You sanded your pistons?
    ive sanded a whole car exterior before.
    CSH
    caprice nugget.

  24. #84
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    Got all the rods/pistons assembled, ringed, and bearing-inged, and can't find my ring compressor. I must have loaned it to someone.

    Also can't find the crank washer, crank bolt, or crank key...I fear they may have been lost to the core return...

  25. #85
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    Actually scored a dead-pilot valve cutter, basically a 5 angle job that was pretty close to the factory job. I shimmed the cutters (they're neway file-shaped cutters) to cut the proper seat profiles so at least the heads are cleaned up and the valves sealing now.

    Got all the pistons down in the block, oil pump fitted, rod bolts fitted. Got the crank bolt and washer found, just have to find/buy a new crankshaft key. Aggravating.

  26. #86
    "The bitches, are wet" Sketchy's Avatar
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    Have you got an approximate cost budget for all the parts and consumables for the finished product?

    It seems like the base cost will be next to nothing and most of the effort is the labour and machining wizardy you are capable of performing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimi View Post
    80mm of penetration isn't bad, i wish i had that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnitzelburger View Post
    My entire working career pretty much consists of suckin dick and takin names.

    Sometimes im too busy to take names.

  27. #87
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    To complete the engine and have it in the car, not counting the rest of the truck, I will be very close to 1200$. In oroder to shut the hood though I may end up spending another 300$...

  28. #88
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    This is the big dilemma.

    I *hate* this. But it may be the only way to get it all under the hood.





    This one, I can tolerate.



    Last edited by Xnke; 13-10-15 at 02:47 PM.

  29. #89
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    Can you mount the whole engine/gearbag lower in the chassis?
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  30. #90
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    It would be....difficult.

    Not impossible, but difficult.

    If I had another complete frame, preferably 4wd, then I would be forced to do so, because I would be building a porka killer.

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