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Thread: Unsual project, need 3D scan, CNC mill and carbon fibre

  1. #1
    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    Unsual project, need 3D scan, CNC mill and carbon fibre

    I've got an unusual project request...

    Friend of mine wants to put a child seat in his car, but doesn't want to damage the seat in any way.

    Seats look like this;

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The idea is to create a hard shell which is contoured to the shape of the seat, lined with some sort of soft surface (sheep skin?) which will not damage the leather of the seat, and will provide a firm surface for the child seat to sit on, perhaps even moulded to the base of the child seat to hold it securely.

    Then the regular seatbelt and top tether can be used, without actually damaging the seat (the shell would also cover the top of the seat where the top tether has to go, so the belts don't touch the seat, just the shell.

    It's a $300k car, so yeah, the guy is being a bit pedantic.

    My thoughts on how to go about this;

    1, take a 3D scan of the seat, make a CAD file for a CNC mill
    2, mill a copy of the seat out of styrofoam blocks
    3, make a shell from carbon fibre in the shape of the seat, lined with sheepskin to protect the leather
    4, ????
    5, profit

    I know there are some clever people around here who would have the means and ability to make such a thing.

    Someone throw me a price?

    Have my doubts about such a thing actually preventing damage to the leather seat surface myself, but it's an idea, and he wants to investigate it.

    Issue #2 is the legality of such a setup. Any ideas if this sort of thing would this be legal in NSW?

    I also hear some shit about "certified child seat fitters" and "certificates" and so on.
    This is all news to me, I just put the damn seat in the car, made sure I followed the instructions.
    I presume it's a 3hr course for a couple of hundred bucks or something to become certified... I guess I would have to become one of those people.

    Thanks.
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

  2. #2
    Down with ma homies Greg Rust's Avatar
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    Tremolo has something in his RS for his kids seat.
    xw Falcon 393 full race cam, NGK spark plugs.

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    Put standard lambs wool seat covers on the seat? I use towels under our child seats in a lexus and it works fine, although not bucket seats.
    Buy a spare seat the same and replace the used one when finished with it?
    Don't let kids in the expensive car?

  4. #4
    Unregistered User Permit Roadsailing's Avatar
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    booster seat or baby seat? guessing booster or at least forward facing baby seat. i'd just put a seat cover over it and put the seat on, the passenger seat is already dirty and the bolster on the driver's side already has about 50,000 kilometres of creasing on it. the kid is just going to shit/spew/sneeze/vomit all over the place anwyay.

    but an easier way to do it your way would be:

    cover it with a garbage bag (or something better) and spray expanding foam over it

    make a plug out of this

    CARBON FIBERRRR!!!!

    regardless of whether you go down the slow expensive scanning way or my fast and foolproof way you may want to consider making the plug/mould slightly smaller, if it fits the seat perfectly and you add padding it isn't going to fit perfectly anymore.

  5. #5
    BLING BLING PLAYA's Avatar
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    Why would you scan in and mill it you have the seat just make a mould straight from the seat like you would carbon panels.

    I have the 3d scanning gear, mills and cad to sort this and it is an idea of monumental status in the dumb area.

    To put it in perspective to get anyone to scan that you prob talking about 350 to 400 an hour, then travel time, then 150 hour to fix up the mesh and model it, fuck knows how long 10 to 20 hours, then to mill it a while then make it. You would just use that seat as a plug and make it straight on that thing, even if you covered the thing in glad wrap then used Plaster bandages to make first mould so anything would wash off.
    3D scanning
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    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t04soarer View Post
    Put standard lambs wool seat covers on the seat? I use towels under our child seats in a lexus and it works fine, although not bucket seats.
    Not good enough according to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by t04soarer View Post
    Buy a spare seat the same and replace the used one when finished with it?
    I just priced up a seat, ex-UK about $15k by the time you land all the parts here, assemble it, install/program it.

    Quote Originally Posted by t04soarer View Post
    Don't let kids in the expensive car?
    He wants to do this so he can take his son out in this car, so I think you miss the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsailing View Post
    booster seat or baby seat? guessing booster or at least forward facing baby seat. i'd just put a seat cover over it and put the seat on, the passenger seat is already dirty and the bolster on the driver's side already has about 50,000 kilometres of creasing on it. the kid is just going to shit/spew/sneeze/vomit all over the place anwyay.
    Forward facing baby seat, for a 2 year old boy. A standard seat cover is not going to cut it for this bloke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsailing View Post
    but an easier way to do it your way would be:

    cover it with a garbage bag (or something better) and spray expanding foam over it

    make a plug out of this

    CARBON FIBERRRR!!!!
    When I told him about taking a mould of the seat with plaster/foam etc, he was not thrilled about the chance of making a mess in the car...

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsailing View Post
    regardless of whether you go down the slow expensive scanning way or my fast and foolproof way you may want to consider making the plug/mould slightly smaller, if it fits the seat perfectly and you add padding it isn't going to fit perfectly anymore.
    Exactly, hence the idea of scanning it, and then being able to manipulate the CAD to allow for the padding thickness.

    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYA View Post
    Why would you scan in and mill it you have the seat just make a mould straight from the seat like you would carbon panels.
    Reasons, above, making a mess, etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYA View Post
    I have the 3d scanning gear, mills and cad to sort this and it is an idea of monumental status in the dumb area.
    I know you do, I was hoping you'd join this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYA View Post
    To put it in perspective to get anyone to scan that you prob talking about 350 to 400 an hour, then travel time, then 150 hour to fix up the mesh and model it, fuck knows how long 10 to 20 hours, then to mill it a while then make it.
    So $10k? That's well within his means.

    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYA View Post
    You would just use that seat as a plug and make it straight on that thing, even if you covered the thing in glad wrap then used Plaster bandages to make first mould so anything would wash off.
    I don't think he'd go for it.

    Let me put this in perspective. The guy is a millionaire. The only thing he loves more than this car is his son. He's also a bit OCD about the car.

    When I floated the idea of swapping the seat, his answer was that both seats and the door trims would have to be swapped out, and would have to make sure that the hides were all matching like they were from the factory.

    Also as it's a convertible, he's concerned about putting the original seat back in down the track, and it doesn't match anymore because of sun fading and so on.

    I've got access to one of these cars in Adelaide with the same seats, so it wouldn't be that far for you to travel to take a scan. Although it's a coupe, not a convertible, i'd have to check that they are 100% the same seat first...
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

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    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYA View Post
    Why would you scan in and mill it you have the seat just make a mould straight from the seat like you would carbon panels.

    I have the 3d scanning gear, mills and cad to sort this and it is an idea of monumental status in the dumb area.

    To put it in perspective to get anyone to scan that you prob talking about 350 to 400 an hour, then travel time, then 150 hour to fix up the mesh and model it, fuck knows how long 10 to 20 hours, then to mill it a while then make it. You would just use that seat as a plug and make it straight on that thing, even if you covered the thing in glad wrap then used Plaster bandages to make first mould so anything would wash off.

    We scanned the face of a Ranger seat last week, took about 30 minutes and the scan direct imports into Solidworks, I'l find out how long it took to model it But I know it was done before lunchtime.
    ......................

  8. #8
    Registered User aerobrick's Avatar
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    You wouldn't make a mess in the car making a mould, you'd take the seat out of the car to do it. Uv-safe closed cell foam rather than sheepskin, surely? No reason you couldn't cut + stitch the foam and make the mould over that, thereby ensuring exact fitment including padding.

  9. #9
    What's that whooshing? Aaron's Avatar
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    A trimmer here in Canberra used to do child seats to match various prestige cars. As in retrim the child seat to match whatever it was going into. Also put some trimmed backing on them so the seats wouldn't scuff up the leather.

    I don't recall there being much to it. Your customer is just being a wanker - take expensive car and baby seat to a decent trimmer, describe problem. Pay trimmer for solved problem and baby seat retrimmed in whale leather or whatever the fuck it is with neatly trimmed over base and back.

    No different to the carbon shell idea. Chances are he'll do more damage to the car taking the seat+shell in and out than the seat may do with just a towel between it and the seat.
    ---
    Shed Project: 1994 Laser Lynx with BP-T

  10. #10
    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    We scanned the face of a Ranger seat last week, took about 30 minutes and the scan direct imports into Solidworks, I'l find out how long it took to model it But I know it was done before lunchtime.
    Cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by aerobrick View Post
    You wouldn't make a mess in the car making a mould, you'd take the seat out of the car to do it. Uv-safe closed cell foam rather than sheepskin, surely? No reason you couldn't cut + stitch the foam and make the mould over that, thereby ensuring exact fitment including padding.
    I don't know which material to use for the protective surface, in my mind pretty much anything is going to rub and mark the leather. Sheepskin, foam, microfibre cloth, whatever it needs to be I guess.

    Removing the seat is possible, but ideally done with a crane, they are heavy bastards...

    I'm open to all suggestions!
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

  11. #11
    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    A trimmer here in Canberra used to do child seats to match various prestige cars. As in retrim the child seat to match whatever it was going into. Also put some trimmed backing on them so the seats wouldn't scuff up the leather.

    I don't recall there being much to it. Your customer is just being a wanker - take expensive car and baby seat to a decent trimmer, describe problem. Pay trimmer for solved problem and baby seat retrimmed in whale leather or whatever the fuck it is with neatly trimmed over base and back.

    No different to the carbon shell idea. Chances are he'll do more damage to the car taking the seat+shell in and out than the seat may do with just a towel between it and the seat.
    You wouldn't happen to know the name of that trimmer in Canberra by any chance?
    Last edited by Jack Nicholson; 01-02-17 at 08:46 AM.
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

  12. #12
    No I'm Not Shonky Shonky's Avatar
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    OCD or otherwise it still seems rather extreme. He's prepare to spend $10k+ on modelling it el but replacing a seat is not enough? Or replace seat now and put old one back in when selling? Yeah I read the fading bit etc. Not going to be noticeable IMO.

    Surely just some manual measurements with a tape measure is enough to made the mould? Or as noted a decent car trimmer could do it all for much cheaper than any CAD scanning exercise is going to be.

    FWIW I use cheap car floor mats in reverse (rubber side up, fabric down on the seat) and the odd towel or two. Does leave slight dents temporarily but easily massaged out.

  13. #13
    Nay sayer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Audi R8 yeah?

    Here you go: https://3dexport.com/free-3dmodel-ca...i-r8-12481.htm

    That'll be $10k please.

    PS. I know thats not the same seat but at least google it before suggesting $10k is "within his means"
    #WHOTW award winner #blessed #susanalbumparty

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    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    LOL yeah Ed, I already searched for a free CAD image online... no dice... p.s. no it's not an Audi R8

    Yeah I know this is all a bit daft, but it is what it is...

    You wouldn't happen to know the name of that posh trimmer in Canberra by any chance???
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

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    Registered User aerobrick's Avatar
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    Alright I think I've got this worked out. Old mate is a bit special about ensuring the seat only gets natural wear inline with that produced by a passenger, so…
    First you're going to need a mould of a human back, ass, and top half of legs. Now you take a mould off the back of kid's seat. Now you put them together, and fill with ballistics gel.

    TADA! Cashed up OCD mate gets a perfect cradle for the car seat that transfers the weight near-identically to how an adult passenger would sit in the seat.
    My people will fax you my entirely reasonable consulting fee shortly.

  16. #16
    BLING BLING PLAYA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    We scanned the face of a Ranger seat last week, took about 30 minutes and the scan direct imports into Solidworks, I'l find out how long it took to model it But I know it was done before lunchtime.
    Yea that is cool, if it is a faro arm it is 150k. No one will do it without good return or they just do a paying job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYA View Post
    Yea that is cool, if it is a faro arm it is 150k. No one will do it without good return or they just do a paying job.
    For small stuff (like a seat) we have a creaform Go!

    https://www.creaform3d.com/en/metrol...nner-goscan-3d


    For bigger stuff (full vehicle scans and shit) we use a GOM ATOS Triple

    http://www.gom.com/metrology-systems...iple-scan.html
    ......................

  18. #18
    Nay sayer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
    LOL yeah Ed, I already searched for a free CAD image online... no dice... p.s. no it's not an Audi R8

    Yeah I know this is all a bit daft, but it is what it is...

    You wouldn't happen to know the name of that posh trimmer in Canberra by any chance???
    Not the one Aaron referred to. Posh trimmers are at the opposite end of the market to anything Id know

    What car is it?
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    Scaramouch seedyrom's Avatar
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    Surely you are over thinking it. Just do what they do in karting.


    From 1:00 onwards ... but replace the fat American with the child seat.


    https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=4525
    Last edited by seedyrom; 01-02-17 at 06:17 PM.

  20. #20
    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

  21. #21
    BLING BLING PLAYA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    For small stuff (like a seat) we have a creaform Go!

    https://www.creaform3d.com/en/metrol...nner-goscan-3d


    For bigger stuff (full vehicle scans and shit) we use a GOM ATOS Triple

    http://www.gom.com/metrology-systems...iple-scan.html
    How good do they work? Pretty interested to know, can u send me a screen shot of what it looks like in solidworks or even a file. Is it meshed before you bring it to solidworks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYA View Post
    How good do they work? Pretty interested to know, can u send me a screen shot of what it looks like in solidworks or even a file. Is it meshed before you bring it to solidworks?
    The CreaForm ?.

    I'll grab something from the CAD guys tomorrow and send it to you, flick me a pm with your email addy.
    ......................

  23. #23
    BLING BLING PLAYA's Avatar
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    Yea the cheaper one, looks to still be 30k or so from my quick google.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYA View Post
    Yea the cheaper one, looks to still be 30k or so from my quick google.
    Yeah bout 30k from memory.

    I'll sort something and send it over
    ......................

  25. #25
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    I'd say 2 towels on the seat would probably prevent anything marking permanently, especially if you take the seat out after each use. I have a foam layer thing on the seat in a VE Calais and there's not a mark on the leather after 2+ years... Only thing affected is the seat foam due to the child seat digging into it, which wouldn't happen if we removed it after each use.

    I'd say he's seriously over thinking this - what's he going to do when the kid poos, wees, or vomits all over the dash?

  26. #26
    What's that whooshing? Aaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
    You wouldn't happen to know the name of that trimmer in Canberra by any chance?
    Will try and dig it up from distant memory, but I think it was "Top Cat" - this was 10+ years ago
    ---
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post

    I'd say he's seriously over thinking this - what's he going to do when the kid poos, wees, or vomits all over the dash?
    hahah so true..

  28. #28
    No I'm Not Shonky Shonky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
    F-Type
    If you're still looking at 3d models this is not a convertible, but could you pull the seats out of this model? Same or close enough? Not free to download to play with though, but money's no object right?
    http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/download.aspx?3dmodel=69448

    Given it's going to get a bunch of padding anyway surely that would be enough detail. Don't need 100k polygons for a seat.

  29. #29
    Registered User irsa76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Will try and dig it up from distant memory, but I think it was "Top Cat" - this was 10+ years ago
    Top Cat got out of the auto trimming gig a few years ago, I believe Technic Trim was started by one of the trimmers.
    To be honest, making a carbon shell might reduce the indentations on the leather, but unless it's lined with something like suede, it will scuff the leather.

  30. #30
    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    I told him to ring trimmers until someone said yes.
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

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