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Thread: importing cars containing asbestos

  1. #121
    Registered User 9triton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Major View Post
    Perhaps this approach is the go: https://www.enviroscience.com.au/aus...RoCZJ0QAvD_BwE

    $80 per sample, sent in from whatever country the car resides in. The hard part then is finding someone to store the car, take and send the samples and then remove any offending material.
    without looking TOO deeply - you can post asbestos into Australia for testing ?- but cant 'import'??

    or am I missing where its being done ?

    this bit as well :
    Importers should not assume that goods labelled “asbestos free” are in fact free of asbestos or that testing of goods undertaken overseas certified “asbestos free” meet Australia’s border requirements. Some countries can lawfully label or test goods, declaring them asbestos free, if they are below a certain threshold.
    wonder which countries?
    Last edited by 9triton; 29-11-17 at 01:06 PM.

  2. #122
    default title Old Major's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9triton View Post
    without looking TOO deeply - you can post asbestos into Australia for testing ?- but cant 'import'??

    or am I missing where its being done ?
    One of the few exemptions for importing asbestos is for testing purposes. The mob from the link state "Permit to import Asbestos containing samples MB17- 003652" on their paperwork.
    Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the end of the world?

  3. #123
    Registered User 9triton's Avatar
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    ok that would work - but a bit of a delay say adds 3 weeks for samle and testing and cert back.

    well at $80 a pop - an importer say doing 6 samples would add like $500 to testing - say charge a flat $1000 -

    but 99% old cars would have asbestos in gaskets /brakes /clutch etc - so you would pay to have it changed out anyways - probably no point in doing the testing , keep the receipts/ certs from manufacturers and then hope you can get thru .

    but it would be customs looking for some NATA house to certify the car is free prior . not just 'heres an envelope of new recepits for asbestos free pads/ clutch/gasket etc as we we changed all the gaskets , big man'



    damned if you do /damned if you don't

  4. #124
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9triton View Post
    wonder which countries?
    Pretty much everywhere in the world except Oz considers sub 2% asbestos content to be "Asbestos free"
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  5. #125
    default title Old Major's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9triton View Post
    ok that would work - but a bit of a delay say adds 3 weeks for samle and testing and cert back.

    well at $80 a pop - an importer say doing 6 samples would add like $500 to testing - say charge a flat $1000 -

    but 99% old cars would have asbestos in gaskets /brakes /clutch etc - so you would pay to have it changed out anyways - probably no point in doing the testing , keep the receipts/ certs from manufacturers and then hope you can get thru .

    but it would be customs looking for some NATA house to certify the car is free prior . not just 'heres an envelope of new recepits for asbestos free pads/ clutch/gasket etc as we we changed all the gaskets , big man'



    damned if you do /damned if you don't
    Exactly. So you would replace them first and then test. Testing when you know the parts are free of asbestos seems wasteful but I reckon it would be the cheaper and less stressful way to approach things.
    Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the end of the world?

  6. #126
    Not a Fan. Agent86's Avatar
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    Guess i need more expert advice.

    Was planning a trip over to where my mercury is and swap out the asbestos suspect bits.

    Sorta fucks that if standards arent aligned.

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  8. #128
    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    It's time to clear the air on asbestos.

    In 2004, the Australian government implemented a complete ban on asbestos and ACMs (asbestos containing materials). This decision was largely consistent with other countries around the world; Japan enacted a total ban in 2002, the United Kingdom in 1999, Europe in 2005.

    For twelve years following the ban, Australia's approach to asbestos in imported vehicles, in practice at least, has also remained consistent with other countries. The levels of asbestos present in imported vehicles were, rightly, considered negligible, and of no greater risk to the public than vehicles already in the Australia.

    In 2012, vehicle manufacturers Great Wall and Chery were found to be selling new vehicles with ACMs, primarily in gaskets in the engine and exhaust. The ACCC did not require the removal and destruction of the offending parts because "There is no asbestos-related health risk to the driver or any passengers who use the vehicle." Instead, a sticker was fitted inside the engine bay warning of the presence of asbestos.

    Against this background, and without prior warning to importers, customs brokers or other industry stakeholders, Australian Border Force implemented a new asbestos testing regime in March 2017, citing a zero tolerance for any ACMs entering the country as justification for the change in procedure. Importers, with vehicles already in transit to Australia, were expected to sign declarations guaranteeing that their vehicles were asbestos free or risk facing heavy fines or prosecution.

    Such was the rushed introduction of the new arrangements, finding a NATA-approved asbestos hygienist (as stipulated by Border Force) proved almost impossible initially, simply because there weren't enough qualified hygienists available to collect samples at or near shipping ports. Those that were available had little to no automotive experience, resulting in destructive tests being performed on many expensive and rare classic vehicles.

    AIMVIA, subsequently, has been bombarded with horror stories regarding asbestos testing and penalties applied to vehicles found to contain ACMs. One regular importer went to great expense to remove many parts on one vehicle prior to leaving its source country, only to overlook one exhaust gasket, valued at just $15. The invoice for storage, asbestos testing, and steam cleaning in Australia came to nearly $6000, and to rub salt into the wounds, the importer was also handed a $9500 fine by Australia Border Force. In another case, the fine handed to another importer was double the value of the car itself.

    Australian Border Force publishes exorbitant expenses and fines as a means of warning future importers, but at a time when the imported vehicle industry is already struggling with government red tape at both state and federal levels, the latest developments have already caused many classic car specialists to close their doors. Inconsistencies in inspections continue to abound from port to port, and inspector to inspector, leaving many vehicles languishing in storage overseas while their owners try to make sense of whether the additional expenses justify importing any vehicles at all.

    AIMVIA believes Australian Border Force's changes to asbestos monitoring and testing smack of 'policy on the run', with little thought given to the enormous impact the move has had on businesses importing vehicles regularly, as well as one-time private importers. While the importation and use of asbestos is a clear health hazard, other border protection jurisdictions around the world and the ACCC have already concluded that ACMs present in imported vehicles do not present a danger to public health. As a result, the resources currently being devoted to the testing of asbestos in imported vehicles represent an inefficient use of taxpayer funds.
    n its role as an advocate for the vehicle import industry, AIMVIA intends to facilitate further discussion between industry stakeholders, relevant government ministers and departmental staff, as a means of developing more predictable procedures to restore consumer confidence in the importation process.
    AIMVIA has prepared an information sheet for prospective importers to avoid their vehicle containing asbestos upon arrival in Australia. Please email us at policy@aimvia.org.au for a copy of the information sheet.

  9. #129
    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    I'm starting to believe that there is an underlying government plan for the overhaul of vehicles in Australia.

    Either
    A) They want to make the Australia fleet newer rather than older
    B) The want to make it easier for autonomous vehicles to quickly flood the market
    C) They are just being cunts and are getting kickbacks from the vehicle importers who are charging us three times the price of a car as it is elsewhere in the RHD world.

  10. #130
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    pretty sure its just dutton and his army of hired goons in border farce swinging their dicks

  11. #131
    Registered User mad_cow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizone View Post
    I'm starting to believe that there is an underlying government plan for the overhaul of vehicles in Australia.

    Either
    A) They want to make the Australia fleet newer rather than older
    B) The want to make it easier for autonomous vehicles to quickly flood the market
    C) They are just being cunts and are getting kickbacks from the vehicle importers who are charging us three times the price of a car as it is elsewhere in the RHD world.


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  12. #132
    Registered User Mr Purple's Avatar
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    I think the answer there is c).

    The thing that shits me about this is that asbestos is a naturally occurring mineral, that we used to mine here. So we're banned from importing trace amounts of asbestos to a country that naturally contains trace amounts of asbestos.

    Yes, one asbestos fibre can give you cancer. So can one cigarette, it's still bloody unlikely. And cigarettes have killed a lot more people than asbestos but remain perfectly legal.

    Don't get me wrong, I think they shouldn't use it in any industry any more and all available safety precautions should be taken, but they have a tendency to be pretty bloody stupid about it. Mesothelioma deaths in Australia in 2014 were 690 (way too high still but related to historic exposure), smoking related deaths for the same year 14,900.

  13. #133
    default title Old Major's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizone View Post
    It's time to clear the air on asbestos.

    In 2004, the Australian government implemented a complete ban on asbestos and ACMs (asbestos containing materials). This decision was largely consistent with other countries around the world; Japan enacted a total ban in 2002, the United Kingdom in 1999, Europe in 2005.

    For twelve years following the ban, Australia's approach to asbestos in imported vehicles, in practice at least, has also remained consistent with other countries. The levels of asbestos present in imported vehicles were, rightly, considered negligible, and of no greater risk to the public than vehicles already in the Australia.

    In 2012, vehicle manufacturers Great Wall and Chery were found to be selling new vehicles with ACMs, primarily in gaskets in the engine and exhaust. The ACCC did not require the removal and destruction of the offending parts because "There is no asbestos-related health risk to the driver or any passengers who use the vehicle." Instead, a sticker was fitted inside the engine bay warning of the presence of asbestos.

    Against this background, and without prior warning to importers, customs brokers or other industry stakeholders, Australian Border Force implemented a new asbestos testing regime in March 2017, citing a zero tolerance for any ACMs entering the country as justification for the change in procedure. Importers, with vehicles already in transit to Australia, were expected to sign declarations guaranteeing that their vehicles were asbestos free or risk facing heavy fines or prosecution.

    Such was the rushed introduction of the new arrangements, finding a NATA-approved asbestos hygienist (as stipulated by Border Force) proved almost impossible initially, simply because there weren't enough qualified hygienists available to collect samples at or near shipping ports. Those that were available had little to no automotive experience, resulting in destructive tests being performed on many expensive and rare classic vehicles.

    AIMVIA, subsequently, has been bombarded with horror stories regarding asbestos testing and penalties applied to vehicles found to contain ACMs. One regular importer went to great expense to remove many parts on one vehicle prior to leaving its source country, only to overlook one exhaust gasket, valued at just $15. The invoice for storage, asbestos testing, and steam cleaning in Australia came to nearly $6000, and to rub salt into the wounds, the importer was also handed a $9500 fine by Australia Border Force. In another case, the fine handed to another importer was double the value of the car itself.

    Australian Border Force publishes exorbitant expenses and fines as a means of warning future importers, but at a time when the imported vehicle industry is already struggling with government red tape at both state and federal levels, the latest developments have already caused many classic car specialists to close their doors. Inconsistencies in inspections continue to abound from port to port, and inspector to inspector, leaving many vehicles languishing in storage overseas while their owners try to make sense of whether the additional expenses justify importing any vehicles at all.

    AIMVIA believes Australian Border Force's changes to asbestos monitoring and testing smack of 'policy on the run', with little thought given to the enormous impact the move has had on businesses importing vehicles regularly, as well as one-time private importers. While the importation and use of asbestos is a clear health hazard, other border protection jurisdictions around the world and the ACCC have already concluded that ACMs present in imported vehicles do not present a danger to public health. As a result, the resources currently being devoted to the testing of asbestos in imported vehicles represent an inefficient use of taxpayer funds.
    n its role as an advocate for the vehicle import industry, AIMVIA intends to facilitate further discussion between industry stakeholders, relevant government ministers and departmental staff, as a means of developing more predictable procedures to restore consumer confidence in the importation process.
    AIMVIA has prepared an information sheet for prospective importers to avoid their vehicle containing asbestos upon arrival in Australia. Please email us at policy@aimvia.org.au for a copy of the information sheet.
    Referring to the bolded text, that's the kind of thing that really scares me off. An extra $15,500 in expenses even after you have spent a fortune trying to do the right thing and all over a $15 non friable gasket that should be able to be replaced for under $100 including labour. I can't help thinking my dreams of importing the car I want have been dashed.
    Last edited by Old Major; 01-12-17 at 10:43 AM.
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  14. #134
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    iron chef insist they will have a straightforward fix very shortly but then that article kinda doesnt make it sound all that straightforward

    if you own an import at the moment i wouldnt be selling it, you may not be able to get another into the country, at least not at a reasonable expense anyway...

  15. #135
    Registered User bg0013's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9triton View Post
    ok that would work - but a bit of a delay say adds 3 weeks for samle and testing and cert back.
    all the hygenist's we use at work for asbestos sampling turn around samples over night. that is the industry standard, as the results from monitors etc, are to be posted up the next day at work.
    any more than 3 working days for a report from the sample date would be people taking advantage of the customer to charge storage.

  16. #136
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    The days of "bought it at auction yesterday, its going on a ship tomorrow, should be here next thursday" are probably gone, but once importers partner with testing facilities and mechanics that can/will swap out components, this shoudl all be fairly straightforward for most cars... A standard fee for a standard report, maybe some extra storage fees on the departure side and a replacement gasket or two, but it will just become the norm...

    the difficulty will be when you have an importer buy a car for you, and then have it inspected, to find out that Mr Fluffy went nuts on the seam sealer, all of the wiring insulation and the sound deadener, and you get the call with 3 options, 1: resell car through importer, probably for a loss, minus importer fees, 2: pay captive market rates to have everything fixed overseas, completely unseen, with no warranty, 3: just have the asbestos bits stripped and the car shipped potentially as a non roller, and fix it in australia, which would probably rule it out from some of the import schemes...
    Quote Originally Posted by myshortyboomba View Post
    I've had many gauges in cars. I always found the conrods react faster than a gauge.

    you can always hear them when they break and they stop the engine immediately so you can't do any more damage.

  17. #137
    Registered User 9triton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bg0013 View Post
    all the hygenist's we use at work for asbestos sampling turn around samples over night. that is the industry standard, as the results from monitors etc, are to be posted up the next day at work.
    any more than 3 working days for a report from the sample date would be people taking advantage of the customer to charge storage.
    i get that - in this case you are posting samples from USA etc to Australia to have checked then get back a report.

    can add aust post into that 3 weeks

  18. #138
    Registered User piss98's Avatar
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    I've been chatting to Matt who helped me with my car back in 2013 and he is still buying and sending cars, has partnered with an approved testing mob over there and is doing the tests - if they come up clear they ship em, if not they strip the required parts and replace in his workshop and then send. He is telling me they have had no issues to date. Still feels risky though without this end being clearer and more consistent on application of the rules. I reckon you can still have an approval but hit a shit cunt and be delayed and the storage fees are fucking ridiculous! Fuck, the wharf fees are already ridiculous without adding any additional storage by customs let alone if you had to store it OS for longer than expected (OS is cheaper but still up there!) I got lucky with mine and the seller stored it for me but if they hadn't it probably would have cost me a couple of grand in storage (was around 2.5 wks)
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  19. #139
    Little engine that could. itsnotagsr's Avatar
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    Currency doesn't make it worthwhile at the moment anyway.

    Perhaps when the AUD was at 1 USD, there was a flood of shit cars and this raised the attention of Border Force?
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  20. #140
    Registered User trdee's Avatar
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    no its a kneejerk to the building insulation stuff

  21. #141
    Registered User piss98's Avatar
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    Had sponsored ads for a blokes business called Dazmac who are claiming to have this in hand with pre shipping inspections, parts swaps and NATA recognised certificates. Not sure how much is legit and how much is marketing, definitely a bit of both I reckon. Rates were fairly reasonable but would depend on how much needed swapping over.

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  22. #142
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    Ive been watching those ads flood in too.

    Hopeful that the mercury can come home this year

  23. #143
    Registered User dnegative's Avatar
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    I was on one of the roll on/roll off car carriers a few weeks ago, had a whole bunch of old Japanese and American cars from Japan on it. Most of them had some sort of sticker or paperwork taped to the windscreen or on the wiper arm stating compliance and who did it etc. Got photos of the cars but not the paperwork but its clearly not an issue atleast from Japan to get it sorted.



    That sticker on the wiper arm seemed to be the asbestos ticket w details.

    Oh, and the guys at the port are not interested in the slightest in revving the tits off your car or thrashing it around;
    By the sounds of things they fucking hate McLarens cause they have to wear cotton overalls and word is, every one of them is dead flat by the time the boat docks and its a hours work to jump start the cunts.
    Last edited by dnegative; 13-01-18 at 11:07 PM.
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