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Thread: Bitsa cheap as Open wheeler

  1. #1
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    Angry Bitsa cheap as Open wheeler

    The dream: to own a Brabham BT21 or Lotus 22 or similar
    The problem: $80k +


    The idea: Build something similar, a Terrapin (Staniforth)
    The problem: not enough skill or time


    The reality: take the cheapest bits and pieces you can find and tack them together for a track day car.
    Budget: about $5k


    Time to finish - I'm 48 with and average life expectancy of 83 gives me 34 years (based on one years driving before the grave).
    So far: *ZX12R engine complete and running, approx 200hp with a few mods -$1200

    * self bent up sump extension and pro welded $150 (think i get taken there)

    *Chassis of unknown origin, very strong, previously modded to fit a Formula Vee front end -$500


    *FVee front end modded with disc brakes -$200

    * Lovely spun steel 3 piece wheels with alloy centres @13x10 rears and 13x8 fronts with 2 front slicks -$350 (actually got two sets but won't count second spare set. They'll go on my next build) need some second hand rears.


    *Rear uprights from Roy928 (thanks mate), i payed postage , can't remember. New bearings and hubs to fit - $160. ( Also got Roys front uprights and bought second hand front bearing hubs to fit $120- may or may not go from Vee front end to independent later.


    Total so far $2680
    The issues- have restored old cars but never built a car. No real (basic bird dropping mig )welding skills. Decided to use Nickel bronze welding with Oxy LPG as chassis done that way and seems fairly easy and strong. Minimal basic tools. Fathers mechanical knowledge is replacing lawn mower spark plug. Friends who share passion-zero
    So please, if u see something needs correcting, chime in.
    Specs: approx. 200hp , total weight approx. 320kg, independent rear, beam axle front, wings and rear diffuser, ugliest car on track.

    Gonna have to learn how to insert photos in order, the chassis obviously won't look anything like the Brabham or Terrapins shown.
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    Last edited by rodoe; 13-05-17 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #2
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    BTW-looking for cheap Yaris or Echo diff and cv/shafts. Based in Blue Mountains.

  3. #3
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Looks like it used to be a formula ford chassis?
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

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    Yeah maybe. But the front you can see rises up, not good for CofG ( if you ignore the mods made to fit the vee front end) which suggests it possibly had a front wing.

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by rodoe; 03-05-17 at 03:40 PM.

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    Slight change of plan. Picked up a cheap set of mx5 rear uprights as i am not confident of my welding skills on the light weight sheet metal set, being such a high stressed component.

  6. #6
    Registered User Dave75's Avatar
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    Check out our Mighty Boy build on Ozclubbies Forum "Other builds".
    has MX5 hubs,brakes, diff,axle,& Chain drive.

    Overall width [to outside of tyres] is approx 1650 mm....205x13 tyres
    Last edited by Dave75; 07-05-17 at 01:13 AM.
    ........................................

    Suzuki Mighty Boy / BEC Rear Mid mount Suzuki 1150cc 450kg Hillclimber [in the build]

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    Great build Dave! Some great ideas on there.
    Can I ask the bearing and pillow block item numbers you are using to mount the Diff if you don't mind.
    Finding it hard to find cheap front uprights with calipers at the moment so looks like sticking with the Vee front end.

    Gotta stop looking at all these other builds and get going.

  8. #8
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodoe View Post
    finding it hard to find cheap front uprights with calipers at the moment so looks like sticking with the vee front end.
    mx5? Gemini? Cortina?
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  9. #9
    Registered User Dave75's Avatar
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    Front & rear suspension is all NA MX5

    Rear is standard width MX5 [uncut Drive Shafts,]. Front track to match the Rear.

    Will check on the Pillow Blocks .
    Last edited by Dave75; 08-05-17 at 12:00 PM.
    ........................................

    Suzuki Mighty Boy / BEC Rear Mid mount Suzuki 1150cc 450kg Hillclimber [in the build]

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    Will be watching. Something like this is on my to do list too

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    Gammaboy, hopefully mx5 as i have front calipers for that. Ascfor Gemini and Cortina, excluded those along with triumph a while ago as thet are quite pricey now. Gemini uprights are nice though.
    Mikey, i take it you're watching Roy928's 'Open Wheeler Toy' thread. Quite encouraging to see his stuff coming together. His work is really clever and works on a tight budget too. And much quicker than i will ever be.

  12. #12
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodoe View Post
    Gemini *snip* quite pricey now. Gemini uprights are nice though..
    Well, I never.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  13. #13
    Registered User Dave75's Avatar
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    Sorry, can't see Pillow Block branding without pulling the whole Diff out. The Bearing obviously the same problem.[think it is 35 mm ID

    Bearing sizing depends on which Diff you end up using...Open /LSD & car make.

    Buy the Diff & go from there.

    The Pillow Blocks for the top pivots are on a 15 mm shaft.

    The Chain Tensioners are "Time Expired" Main Flap Pivot Rods from a PC3 Orion Aircraft courtesy of the RAAF scrap bin.
    .
    Last edited by Dave75; 09-05-17 at 06:31 PM.
    ........................................

    Suzuki Mighty Boy / BEC Rear Mid mount Suzuki 1150cc 450kg Hillclimber [in the build]

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    Greetings Rod

    With regard to "my" uprights, consider that I'm doing the endurance testing of them....I can report back that there have been no issues thus far with the uprights in my application.

    If I needed to get someone to weld them I'd tack them together and just pop down to the nearest exhaust shop and ask them to weld them up.

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    Thanks Roy, but most people charge like wounded bulls in Sydney.
    I already had an mx5 diff and also couldn't seem to fit my Volvo 240 or VW beetle calipers in the wheels with those uprights.- the are 2 pots.
    How do u feel your magna calipers would cope on longer stints like 20 minute track day sessions as compared to hillclimb blasts?

  16. #16
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    Good question, I've never had any issues on the kart track out at Pt.Gawler. I barely get to run for 20 minutes though, as my back and arms start to ache...

    Lower speeds on the kart track but corners closer together, never had any issue, not even a whiff of an issue...

    I'd also suggest that the brake forces are more evenly balanced on a rear/mid engined car such as ours so there is less concentration of stress to the front brakes.

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    Thanks Roy, i may indeed go back to your uprights as mx5 upright owner screwing me around a bit. On the search again for Echo/yaris cv shafts and diff/box.

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    Just found deal on box and cv shafts, $150. Will collect next week.

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    With sub-optimal (ie mainly guess work)front and rear wings and diffuser, what are peoples thoughts on minimum ride height? Will have about 2 rake. Will have a 3 ( under engine) and 7 (either side of engine) diffuser from roll bar back.

  20. #20
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    A FF is around 40mm ride height at front, a stohr with a little bit of underbody aero is around 25....somewhere in that range probably?

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    Yep, all very good and handy on the racetrack.

    But the rest of the hassle that comes with it will drive you nuts....

    just saying

  22. #22
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    Learned - though not really mastered- the art of bronze welding/braze welding ( which ever one you feel is correct terminology) using Nickel bonze with Oxy Lpg. Too easy. Fabbed up front engine mounts, ugly but strong. Sacrificed one with a hammer in the vice, metal bent, joint intact-happy days.

    Problem with this beautiful modern chassis is, because it can't be made to look anything like my dream 60's era F1 car, or anything 'classic' really, it screams for aero and this adds a level of complexity that does my little head in. Sure i could just build it quick and get it on the track and improve on it later, but with diffusers needing to be designed into the rear from the start, i haven't got that luxury. I actually only have 18 to 30 months to finish this car. An old Formula ford chassis would have been nice.
    Last edited by rodoe; 20-05-17 at 02:20 AM.

  23. #23
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    Ha Ha! great that you have taught yourself to weld, it is such a usefull skill. You can do anything you want to.

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    It's been a while since I've seen one, but that looks like a Jacer Formula Vee chassis to me. If I'm right, getting body work for the front should be easy.

    As or the aero, my completely uninformed opinion is have a look at the underside of a BT49/Lotus 79/FW07 and have a bash at that - and don't worry too much since the efficiency of your ground effects design probably isn't going to determine if the car is fun to drive or not.

    Good luck with this, and keep updating. I've really been enjoying Roy's thread.

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    Thanks benchmarker, already asked Vee boys and one of the Cutts brothers (Jacer designers) had no idea what it was either.
    Yeah thought about true ground effects but think you can't run anywhere. Simple diffuser will have to do.

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    Spent a few days mocking up different rear sub frames trying to accommodate a rear diffuser, 306mm diameter rear sprocket, a very tall engine with no lower front attachment points to use engine as stressed member, top bulkhead attachment points 60mm narrower on each side than bottom, and trying to triangulate five sides without looking like the Maserati birdcage frame and weighing a ton.

    Finally got the rear upright bearing cups welded in ($100).
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    Last edited by rodoe; 09-06-17 at 09:30 AM.

  27. #27
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    A little indulgence, the Maserati Tipo 61 (Birdcage Maserati) is a thing of beauty.

  28. #28
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    My old Formula Vee had a body that supposedly had been flopped off a Brabham BT 19 or similar. The NSW Historic FV club has the moulds and will rent them out for a modest fee. I will dig out a photo later.
    .

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    Was in contact with the historic vee boys. Was looking at a Standfast body, supposedly a BT 21 body, but maybe was the 19. Love to see a photo. If this build doesn't destroy me, definitely my next build will be in that style.

  30. #30
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    Could well be a BT 21...for some reason I had 19 in mind. Somebody told me they sectioned about 3 in out of the body to get to the FV size.
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