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Thread: Giocattolos!

  1. #31
    Push it good
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    The race driver I referenced has top 10 Bathurst and sandown finishes to his name.

    I'm sure the design had merit but a production run of 15 cars and a limited development budget can only get you so far.
    .

  2. #32
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    But how many of us take notice of Turbosurfer's opinion anyway???

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  3. #33
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    Everything needs to be taken in context, remember we are talking about a vehicle that was produced 30 yrs ago...it is contemporary with the XF falcon and, what, VL Commodore?.. The F40 was introduced a year after the Giocattolo...So for a brief period Australia was actually building a supercar. Ok in standard guise it was a little slow, but getting more power from a Holden V8 was no black magic nor was it going to bankrupt you, so it was even better than your average supercar!

    Kudos to the guys that made it happen, there have been countless who have failed at less ambitious plans.

    For those of us around at the time it was an exciting time, Holden were producing a fabulous Group A commodore that was taking on the world and here were a couple of guys building an Australian Supercar, how good was this?

  4. #34
    BIG MEK buzz's Avatar
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    Like I said on FB, it takes a special crowd of cars (the Giocattolos) to surpass a McLaren CanAm car at anything, ever.

    At the time, for a guy with a Countach poster on the wall as well as a poster of a mostly naked slapper on a Suzuki Katana, the Giocattolo was fully out-there spec dream machine material. Right up there on desirability with big-boobed British page 3 'model' turned jiggly pop singer and an Ibanez Iceman guitar.

    It is good that they have stood the test of time with technical validity and looks. With the harsh view of 20/20 hindsight, many failed one or both of those tests.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by irsa76 View Post
    Barry Lake passed away in 2012.


    They had no issues getting the engines, HEC were actively looking at supplying engines to low volume manfacturers at the time. If you look closely you'll notice the throttle bodies are on either side of the plenum rather than just on the LHS, iirc while this was done for aesthetics they found abit more power with it.
    That Should read "Barry Lock" he of Kaditcha fame, amongst others. Speaking of Kaditcha, Bap Romano was there too!!
    I was invited to attend this.... how life gets in the way sometimes.
    Paul's venture was a victim of the "Button Plan" of the '80's as much as anything else at the time, couldn't get an import tax break importing the transaxles, or something along those lines ..... 30 years ago!!! Damn!
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  6. #36
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    Hmm. I wonder if an LS1 bolted directly to a Corvette transaxle goes into the back of a Sprint with a copied Gliocattolo subframe then?

  7. #37
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    Likely not. The ZF probably has the gearbox rear of the diff while the Corvette has the diff rear of the gearbox...

    The Giocattolo has the harmonic balancer nestled at the the drivers lower back, there is no room to move it forward.



    It is all about the packaging.

  8. #38
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    Barry Lock truly is a genius in car set up. Would have loved to have been there.
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  9. #39
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    Youtube video of Wayne Park driving that McLaren at QR. I timed it as a 1.08

    The most dangerous risk of all - the risk of spending your life not doing what you want, on the bet you can buy yourself the freedom to do it later. - Randy Komisar.

  10. #40
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    Paul Stokell on the sprint circuit. 49 seconds.

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  11. #41
    What's that whooshing? Aaron's Avatar
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    It'd go fine.

    The certification process and upfront costs of doing a production run are the dream killers in the equation.

    You can only build two cars a year as ICV's so the next step is doing limited production which gets you able to build more but you then need to basically buy/order everything for your production batches in one hit for consistency - unless your suppliers are willing to do stuff on demand.

    Then build 2-5 cars, get the press into a car etc and have a car or two to sell/demonstrate showing options and lastly hope that you get the orders for the next 10-15 cars which may be a full 12 months of production capacity and of course scaling that up probably means another facility and the associated costs of relocation etc.
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  12. #42
    What's that whooshing? Aaron's Avatar
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    Oddly the govco/engineering requirements to go limited series production/import aren't all that bad - the liability insurance, ACCC/warranty/legals and cost for facility, labour and marketing before even selling a car are the hurdles.
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  13. #43
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    The Giocattolo was the bedroom wall poster car for me in the late '80s.
    Pity it folded, but not the least bit surprising.
    There is only enough market for an Australian built supercar to sell maybe a dozen cars or so per decade.
    So we get the Bolwells, sold a few, folded. The Giocattolos, sold a few, folded. Bullet, sold a few, folded... Who's next?

  14. #44
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    Holden & Ford :P

  15. #45
    What's that whooshing? Aaron's Avatar
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    Giocattolos!

    Bullet has a new car coming. Bolwell got their 2009 thing all signed off but I'm not sure how many they sold/sell - but there were a couple of model "tweaks" early in the piece.

    I think a lot of the problem is that all these companies consume the capital before they sell a car and the people behind them either lose their house or go back to their successful day-jobs.

    Pretty much a minimum $250K proposition to get a functioning entity set up to assemble/build an already designed niche low volume car here plus the wages plus the actual components, then you need to convert the ability to build cars into proof you've built cars before most cunts will part with the money for a car - but they won't want the floor stock. Then you need to cover 5-6 "markets" with demonstrators etc - at a minimum, WA, SA, Mel, Syd, Bris.

    The press all want free trackdays thrashing the crap out of your development car and a free lunch. That shit has just consumed the margin of the first 10 cars, but which time they've found 5 things that are worthwhile addressing and 50 inconsequential things they'll bitch about because you didn't run ads in their media.

    There's a market for these kind of cars - but fuck when you start working out the business plan there's really no sane reason to do it, the numbers and the hurdles are massive for a minimal return.
    Last edited by Aaron; 14-08-17 at 07:34 PM.
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  16. #46
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    Reminds me of the story about the movie star who rocked up to the Aston Martin factory and said "I'm famous and will be good advertising for your brand, so I'm only prepared to pay cost price for a new Aston", the head of sales replied "happy to agree to that deal as it's 10% more than everyone else pays"
    .

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babalouie View Post
    What I have noticed over the years is that magazine reviews usually say it's great. But then you'll see something like a pic of one doing Targa, and the caption will be something like "So-and-so found the Giocattolo's wayward handling to be a challenge on the blahblah stage". So it sounds like the magazines say one thing and the owners say the opposite.
    Under steering monsters, chassis flexed visibly....a struggle to wrestle around the Queanbeyan hill climb track let alone anywhere with speed. Fatally flawed which is part of their charm like most old 'Supercars'. I'd have one in a heartbeat
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  18. #48
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    on all Alfasuds, sprints and 33s , you couldn't open the doors when they were on jack stands. So this doesn't suprise me ...

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry View Post
    on all Alfasuds, sprints and 33s , you couldn't open the doors when they were on jack stands. So this doesn't suprise me ...
    Didn't the Suds/Sprints have a double firewall? The 3 door Suds & Sprints had B pillars, what were they doing? Maybe elegantly thin A pillars are a problem....

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  20. #50
    Registered User irsa76's Avatar
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    I recall a mention that these handled OK until the owners started trying to "improve" them.

  21. #51
    Registered User Justengt4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irsa76 View Post
    I recall a mention that these handled OK until the owners started trying to "improve" them.
    "OK" meant that on the street at 8/10ths they made a good noise and little risk of death
    GT8
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  22. #52
    Opens Guido's Avatar
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    Also probably a case that modern, wide sticky tyres highlighted what was not visible with 80s tyres. Grip, grip, grip then backwards and trees. They were probably a lot more progressive on the tyres in the day which also didn't load up enough to show up chassis flex.
    Rust is lighter than carbon fibre.

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  23. #53
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    In reference to the chat I had with the expericenced race car driver and his reservations around the handling, that was back in 1991.

    Keep in mind he said it needed more development, which is no suprise given the truncated life of the brand. Think about how many hours/kms the big manufacturers put into a car.....and still not get it 100% right.
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  24. #54
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    I think the chassis flex was a lack of structure in the floor.. I would have thought that the roof structure was up to the job. As an aside, I made quite a bit of money for my employers getting the chassis cracks welded up and strengthened on alfa 33's back in the day, they would crack in the drive shaft releaf in the front chassis rails. in the early 90's we were doing 2 a week. In the quad cam 33's they actually fitted bars from the bulkhead down to the front of the chassis to stop this.

  25. #55
    Registered User piss98's Avatar
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    I wandered past for a look at this too, much porno but didn't have the camera with me. Captiva Fan should have mentioned he was in town as I would have let him buy me a beer.
    Hide yo' wife!!!

  26. #56
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1uz-zte View Post
    See this car? What is it? A few weeks back, this event was advertised and a few people at work were laughing at this car as if 'what kinda of supercar is that?'. And I was thinking, 'I bet it's something actually decent you dumb shitheads'. Then, about a week ago, I actually saw a white one around Beerwah. So, what is it?
    How old are you?
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  28. #58
    Registered User piss98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captiva Fan View Post
    ?
    I mean I live about 10mins from Caloundra and went and had a look at this shindig too.
    Hide yo' wife!!!

  29. #59
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piss98 View Post
    I mean I live about 10mins from Caloundra and went and had a look at this shindig too.
    Heh heh heh ... *waves to Secoh Twin*.
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

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