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Thread: Federal RS-RR

  1. #1
    sexy fingers
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    Federal RS-RR

    Hey Guys,

    full time lurker on here, first time poster.

    just picked up a redline ute and decided the best way to break it in would be a day at Winton. Never done track work in a car but have 2 wheel experience.
    The rears are looking like they wont last the full day so i'm up for some new boots. stock tyres are Bridgestone RE050 in a 245/40 19 front and 275/35 19 rear. looks like they run around $500ea. I've never owned any sort of "performance" car before so i dont have experience in what a tyre is supposed to do, but i didnt feel impressed with the bridgestones.

    did a fair bit of googling around and have found i can get the Federal RS-RR for around $200ea in the factory sizes. i understand that the RS-RR isnt really a track tyre more of a road tyre that might last a lap or two? Given that the car is completely stock except for brake fluid i probably have bigger issues to deal with than tyres that go off quick.

    Thoughts?

    Do i buy two of the OEM rears and a full set of something else soon after the track day or try the cheap RS-RRs then pull them off and put my stock tyres back on?

    is it worth playing with the alignment a bit (fuck knows what you adjust maybe some more negative camber all round?) car is only a weekender so i can probably compromise on tyre wear a bit.

    Cheers

  2. #2
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    Can you put up photos with close ups of the tread, so we can get an idea of how much life is left in them?

    For your first track day, I would be more inclined to spend money on decent front brake pads. There were plenty of guys at the track day at Winton last Saturday running around on regular tyres, and having a good time.

  3. #3
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    Btw $200 for a trackable tyre in that size is a very good price

  4. #4
    Registered User mad_cow's Avatar
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    Ran them on the 300zx and our race car integra.


    The 300zx was street driven, makes good power 330kw 800nm toque., weighs 1450kg hooked up really well while they were new. life for street driven everyday was a bit short.
    The integra is light, makes bugger all power, but still gets driven hard in the corners. We get 2 races out of a set. about 8 hours of track time. After that they are too think for us to use again, and getting a bit on the low side.

    For a track day, the RS-RRs will be perfect. Get another set of rims for cheaps, stick them on it go back to the factory ones for road use. If you need new tires anyway chuck them on the stock rims. Don't expect them to last like the RE050s. (half the price, half the life?)


    I wouldn't worry about camber etc, you are not going out to set times. You will have a load of fun with just tires.
    Last edited by mad_cow; 15-08-17 at 10:58 AM.

  5. #5
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    Great value mate. Like Sprinkles said, don't forget fluid or pads, no point having decent rubber and not being confident on the brake pedal

  6. #6
    sexy fingers
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    Actually what i might do is go past the dealer on the way home from work and measure the rears of a new car but im thinking they're around 70% worn.

    I have flushed the OEM fluid out and replaced with Castrol SRF. the rest of the brakes are just stock Brembos (im sure they are just Brembo in name only, not actual good calipers) and pads are still good. i did look at replacing the pads but it seems really hard to get feedback about what actually works.

    some guys were talking up the QFM A1RM but i dont think they had ever tracked the car so how do they even know?
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    Have a read of the thread in this section titled "Track day pad for S15".

    In summary, QFMs are an OK pad, and will be better than your street pads, but there are much better pads available for a bit more money. It also seems that they work better on lighter cars than heavier ones.

    You really don't want to be running street pads on a track day if you can avoid it, they usually fade badly, and sometimes completely wear through.

  8. #8
    sexy fingers
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    that was a good read, the weight of the car is going to be a killer (1720kg with no driver and fuck all fuel). I'd rather not buy pads that just overheat and fall to pieces, but it isn't ever going to be a race car so a compromise will have to be met.

    truth be told i'm not sure how close i'll actually be getting to the limit of everything with my (lack of) driving skill. but more brakes are always good so i will see if i can find something before next weekend.

    ordered the tyres though, i measured up my rears and ive only got 30% left which is never going to cut it. they seem to have dissapeared really quickly.

    is there any rules around tyre pressures like how many psi gain from cold to off track temp?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    is there any rules around tyre pressures like how many psi gain from cold to off track temp?
    You want to target a recommended hot pressure, measured fairly promptly at the end of a track session. See if you can get this target hot pressure from either Federal, or Mad Cow since he's got some experience with them.

    The easiest way to achieve this is to put in cold pressure say 3psi below the target hot pressure, then run a session, come in and bleed them down to the target hot pressure. In winter you will probably have to repeat this for 2 - 3 sessions, as the ambient track temp warms up. Don't let the car sit for too long before checking the pressures, the heat radiating off the brakes can artificially increase the apparent hot pressure

  10. #10
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    If you can get RS-RR's in 275/35ZR19 for $200ea fitted do it, thats stupidly cheap.

    If you dont want pads that will fall apart, then dont even look at the QFM

  11. #11
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    I've had great experience with Project Mu with my car, which is close to 1700kg with me in it.

  12. #12
    sexy fingers
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    tyres arent fitted but have the gear to do so at the old boys place.

    what Project Mu pads did you run ed40?

    i see in the latest motor mag they had a redline ute at winton, 1:38.6 with auto trans. 0.2 off a focus rs and .3 off AMG A45

    thought it would be heaps further away from those kind of cars. wonder how far away from the 38.6 i will be.
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  13. #13
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    Super, if you are talking 38s at Winton, you will want a full race pad. In Project Mu, the starting point would be the Club Racer, which is what we run. We had them in the road registered Swift, and just put them in for track days, very noisy for street use and temp range is 300 - 800, so again not ideal for the street. If you go for these pads, I recommend you get them from Autosport in Adelaide, ask for Simon. Top guy, he races so he knows what he's talking about, and provides honest service.

    If you want a so-called road/track pad, just be mindful that they are a compromise. If you are chasing times, it's worth spending 10 minutes to change your pads for the right ones.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    tyres arent fitted but have the gear to do so at the old boys place.
    Pro tip: Don't worry about balancing them.

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    Go Winmax W7 - 100˚C to 850˚C 0.48 to 0.53 or the Circo M127 - 150˚C to 850˚C. 0.45 to 0.55 both more consistent over the RC09's Also still very streetable but high wear when dead cold

  16. #16
    sexy fingers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    Pro tip: Don't worry about balancing them.
    Is this a classic stitch up?


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    GU Patrol L98, Manualised Auto, 35s, Kings etc
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    Is this a classic stitch up?

    Not at all. Here's a newly fitted tyre, note the white paint pen witness mark:




    Here's the same tyre 10 laps later:




    By the end of the day, that tyre had rotated 180 degrees on the rim, making the balancing irrelevant. And that's with 74KW, I'm tipping you have a bit more power than that?

    Junior works for a professional 86 team, does the tyre fitting for them among other things. They don't balance their wheels, so this is quite literally a pro tip.

  18. #18
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    thats really interesting, a similar thing happens on track with certain slicks on the rear of 600s/1000s. for some reason i thought that cars wouldn't do that.

    don't really know what sort of lapt time i will end up with but at least i know the car is good for a 38 with a proper driver.
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  19. #19
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    We get our race tyres dry fitted.
    tyre guys hate it, but it stops them moving.
    Originally Posted by Tut
    THEY SHOULD ANALYY RAPE THEMSELVES WITH A FUCING CACTUS UPSIDE DOWN WITH COCONIUTS AND PINEABPPLES AS CHRISTMAS BALLS THE FUCKNIG THIEVENG CUNTS ID RATHER DIE FROM HAVING A RAINBOW UNICORN URETHRALLY RAPE ME THAN TO FUCKNIG DO BUSINESS WITH THEM CUTNST EVER AGAN

  20. #20
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    well the federals are on.

    first impressions is fuck me do they make some noise. i dont remember putting some 35 inch simexes on. drove home in the pissing rain. wet grip is poor but i didnt die so thats fine by me.

    federal have told me aim for 36psi hot for a starting point. got the car aligned as well, maxed out front camber -1.3 and 1mm toe out both sides. noticed some significant wear on the outsides of the front tyres already with 2000k on them, havent had any hard drives just general tomfoolery.

    keen for sunday.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    well the federals are on.

    first impressions is fuck me do they make some noise. i dont remember putting some 35 inch simexes on. drove home in the pissing rain. wet grip is poor but i didnt die so thats fine by me.

    federal have told me aim for 36psi hot for a starting point. got the car aligned as well, maxed out front camber -1.3 and 1mm toe out both sides. noticed some significant wear on the outsides of the front tyres already with 2000k on them, havent had any hard drives just general tomfoolery.

    keen for sunday.
    Yep, noise is normal. The Nitto NT01s make a noise like the exhaust dragging on the ground. The price you pay for grip.

    Where did you get the idea of that much toe out on the front? This would not be my starting point for a powerful RWD. If you want to reconsider that, go for zero or a little toe in.

    36 hot sounds sensible. The forecast for Winton on sunday is 2 - 14, so I suggest you start at about 33 cold for the first session, see if you can get them above 36, then bleed them down. You will need to keep doing that for the first 2 - 3 sessions.

    Have fun, and let us know how you get on.

  22. #22
    sexy fingers
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    i told the alignment shop that i wanted zero toe and to max the camber out knowing it would be somewhere around -1.x and got it back with that toe setting.

    apparently they were advised by someone that it would be the go. who this guy is that suggested the toe out i dont even know. they had a vicV8s car in there the day before, maybe they spoke to that guy who said put some toe in it.

    hopefully i will have a book full of notes after the day and have caught the track bug. can only hope.
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  23. #23
    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    If it's your first track day in the car, you'll have a great time but don't put any pressure/expectations upon yourself to come anywhere near Luffy's 1min38. The guy is a freak.
    Anything under 1min45 would be an outstanding achievement in a stockish Commodore for a first time there.

    My advice also would be to steer well clear of QFM A1RMs.
    I've used them and they suck in heavy cars, but with the skinny 245's up front you may be ok. Plenty of time can be made up at Winton with sorted brake pads that won't over heat. SRF is a good choice with fluid.
    Hawk DTC70 work well.

    Dialling in as much neg camber at the front will help greatly as will a bit of front toe out which you have done. Make sure the power steering fluid is fresh too.

    Assume you've read through here?

    http://www.performanceforums.com/for...Winton-Raceway
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  24. #24
    sexy fingers
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    Guess what I did...


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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    Guess what I did...


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    Faster than you thought - 37?

  26. #26
    sexy fingers
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    Scratched it


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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    Scratched it
    Came off the black stuff?

  28. #28
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    Worst part is my lap timer was being a cunt so I'll have to go thru the videya to est a time.

    Brakes were fine for my ability but I probably didn't recognise how quickly the rears go away if you start to overheat them.


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  29. #29
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    Did the organisers not provide you with a lap timing transmitter?

  30. #30
    Registered User Rascasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    Scratched it
    As in went to a track day and bent it?

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