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Thread: Ze GERMANS! BMW FREE-21

  1. #1
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    Ze GERMANS! BMW FREE-21

    Been slack lately. Stuck doin house shit and family and all that boring stuff that doesn't involve cars. The Roadrunner is sitting awaiting more funds for the headers and stuff so I can install the engine and get that happening. The Cum-Truck is going good and doesn't really need anything except possibly a new tray made, so it's all been quiet.

    Anyway, randomly this kraut wagon came up. I've always liked the shape, and I have been having impure thoughts about something small, manual and nimble that I can wing around town. The price was right (free) so I jumped in quick and snagged it. Haven't had a real good look at it yet as I was away for the weekend, but it seems like its in fairly good nick considering! Apparently it was running but needs a new fuel pump which the previous owner generously supplied (just need to install it). It's had new springs and shocks as well which is handy, and he also has a set of BMW alloys to go on it which he is going to drop off to me (what a dude!). I ended up giving him a carton for it as I felt kinda bad...

    Body wise its perfectly straight and has about 3 x 20c size bits of rust to deal with. It will be a very easy spray job for me.

    So plan at this stage - get it running and see what it goes like, then I will strip it and spray it up nice (thinking black because they look awesome in black, or else M3 red...)
    After that, I am honestly now thinking LS1 time. That and a 5 speed tremek or some shit should fit nicely and will be good for lulz.
    Welcoming thoughts / suggestions!

    It also came with a healthy serving of leaves which was nice.




  2. #2
    Registered User pisana's Avatar
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    score! That looks to be in decent condition, especially being free.
    mOOT, it's the way of today.

  3. #3
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    It is surprisingly tidy man. I am keen to see what it looks like after I wash it and give it a quick buff. Also seeing as I have a hoist, fuel pump will be an easy fix. I will be stoked beyond belief if I do that and it fucking works...

  4. #4
    right over the top TJ Shermuz's Avatar
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    i like this
    I am a retarded 747 captain who now sells waterslides in Perth.

  5. #5
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    I'd put a six out of a later BMW in it - can't help but think that the LS would be a prick to package the brake booster and shit, and well, would be just too much for it. Guess it'd do good burnouts though untill the diff exited the subframe...
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

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    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    I did have some reservations about how long the rest of the drivetrain would last with LS Powah.... the torque will probably reduce the diff to kindling in about 14 seconds...
    I am not even sure what the current donk is. It's an injected 6, but I think they are 1.8 or 2.0 litre or some shit? I expect it will be reasonably anemic. Would a later model 6 be easy / cheap enough to obtain?

  7. #7
    Owns a bucket no13b_Coupe's Avatar
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    Nice pickup!

    I kinda miss driving Matt's around even though it wasn't my car..
    BF XR6 Turbo - 2L Turbo TE - 75 TX Coupe

    - PSN: rotacoupe

    This is obviously assuming all your AUX outputs are doing something. Ie idle control, and the other does water spray, and the other updates your Instagram automatically etc.

  8. #8
    right over the top TJ Shermuz's Avatar
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    I am a retarded 747 captain who now sells waterslides in Perth.

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    Hungry Hungry Hippo Tripper's Avatar
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    VQ30det
    you cant spell advertisements without semen between the tits

  10. #10
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    all too 'spensive. Need cheap. What about an rb20det or something? I thought of 1jz but too hard to do the manual thing. I did have a 1jz up until recently too... whoops!
    SR20det?
    hmmm....

  11. #11
    Registered & Trademarked Road_Terrorist's Avatar
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    A manual 323i is a very good score for free. The current engine would be an M20 2.3L six with K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection makes around 140bhp.

    The stock small diffs are pretty weak though, I think they were considered good for maybe 200bhp at most and even then were marginal. Been a while since I had an E21 but from what I can remember people used to fit a larger diff and modified rear subframe from either an E30 3 series 6 cylinder (medium diff, keeps 4 lug) or E28 5 series (large diff, 5 lug) but both of those require a fair bit of fabrication and modification to fit.

  12. #12
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road_Terrorist View Post
    A manual 323i is a very good score for free. The current engine would be an M20 2.3L six with K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection makes around 140bhp.

    The stock small diffs are pretty weak though, I think they were considered good for maybe 200bhp at most and even then were marginal. Been a while since I had an E21 but from what I can remember people used to fit a larger diff and modified rear subframe from either an E30 3 series 6 cylinder (medium diff, keeps 4 lug) or E28 5 series (large diff, 5 lug) but both of those require a fair bit of fabrication and modification to fit.
    Awesome mate thank you for the info! This pretty much doubles what I know about these cars. Interesting, I would expect that a 2.3L 6 would actually go quite well in a car of this size. Again I should do some research but surely it only weighs a 1 to 1.2 tonnes or so? Maybe I should clean up the stocko engine and just hammer that around? Probably would sound alright too with a decent set of pipes...

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    I remember driving one in the early 90s and it was a nice thing. BMW sixes are beautiful engines to rev.

    imho get it running right and leave it original.
    VT, VH & C43

  14. #14
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68RNR View Post
    all too 'spensive. Need cheap. What about an rb20det or something? I thought of 1jz but too hard to do the manual thing. I did have a 1jz up until recently too... whoops!
    SR20det?
    hmmm....
    RBs are an easy swap in these. Only thing is not much room for intercooler without mass hacking out metal.

    I've built a stroker 2.7l they aren't super fast by any means but for what they are make little torquey rockets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  15. #15
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68RNR View Post
    Awesome mate thank you for the info! This pretty much doubles what I know about these cars. Interesting, I would expect that a 2.3L 6 would actually go quite well in a car of this size. Again I should do some research but surely it only weighs a 1 to 1.2 tonnes or so? Maybe I should clean up the stocko engine and just hammer that around? Probably would sound alright too with a decent set of pipes...
    1100ish and you can rev the 6s out to 7k reliably. They go good for what thy are
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  16. #16
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Guy I used to work with had a tweaked E21 323i - I vaguely recall he went carb'd on his. went nicely.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  17. #17
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    Interesting. Well I will get a chance to have a play with it on the weekend finally, so ill stick the pump in and some fresh fuel and see what happens...
    Are the wheels on these interchangeable with other things too? Like its not a ford stud pattern or something simple like that? Needs wide wheels and some flares.

  18. #18
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    4x100 PCD - same as MX5s and shit.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  19. #19
    Registered User clutch-monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    Guy I used to work with had a tweaked E21 323i - I vaguely recall he went carb'd on his. went nicely.
    yeah ran into a guy at lakeside with EFI hardware ITB's and 2.5L bottom end. sounded great.

  20. #20
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Actually, I reckon I'd just throw webers/itbs (RB26 ITBs?), a cam and some pipes at it and scream it around. Do you really need something that's weapons grade fast as a street plaything/commuter?
    They're taily enough stock by all accounts, putting a gazillion HP in it would likely result in it spearing backwards through the scenery at 1/4 throttle.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  21. #21
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    a cam would be an easy thing to do, given i'm probably going to pull the donk to spray the thing. A set of triple webbers would be cool as fuck too and would give it that sweet retro vibe. Be a complete shit to tune I imagine but everyone needs a challenge right? Is the factory EFI setup really much of a limitation?
    I was thinking that a decent exhaust and some headers / cold air intake would probably liven things up sufficiently. I expect Gammaboy is right regarding apocalyptic power to weight ratios. I've got the roadrunner if I want to fry tyres and lose my license. It would be good if the wife could drive this thing without ending up in the back of an ambulance as well I suppose...

  22. #22
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68RNR View Post
    Is the factory EFI setup really much of a limitation?
    It's not EFI, it's K-Jet, basically a constant flow mechanical injection system. Some versions of K-Jet (CIS if you're american or into Porsches) had a layer of electronic control. Anyway you cut it, it sucks.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  23. #23
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    I see. Makes sense I guess, given electronics were not real big in 1982. Carbs sounds cool, ill check it out.

  24. #24
    Registered User clutch-monkey's Avatar
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    Carbs would be cool. Cam and nice exhaust and these small displacement 6's really sound great, especially since you're adding induction noise
    You'll have fun just zipping up and down the gears imo. Lighter flywheel as well?

    I'd still check out how much to go proper efi and ITB's (as mentioned I think efi hardware do a cheaper variant)

  25. #25
    "The bitches, are wet" Sketchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    Actually, I reckon I'd just throw webers/itbs (RB26 ITBs?), a cam and some pipes at it and scream it around. Do you really need something that's weapons grade fast as a street plaything/commuter?
    They're taily enough stock by all accounts, putting a gazillion HP in it would likely result in it spearing backwards through the scenery at 1/4 throttle.
    This is the correct action. The M20 2.3 really wakes up with a proper injection/ECU setup. I had a Haltech with falcon injectors and 80mm falcon throttle body on my old 2.3 when I turbocharged it (then shat the turbo and ran it NA for a while) and it was a screamer. Make sure you do the timing belt when you pull the engine if it's been sitting forever too, interference engine and belt needs to be done every 80,000km.

    Come to think of it I still have the Haltech and the old turbo manifold kicking around at home....
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimi View Post
    80mm of penetration isn't bad, i wish i had that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnitzelburger View Post
    My entire working career pretty much consists of suckin dick and takin names.

    Sometimes im too busy to take names.

  26. #26
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post
    This is the correct action. The M20 2.3 really wakes up with a proper injection/ECU setup. I had a Haltech with falcon injectors and 80mm falcon throttle body on my old 2.3 when I turbocharged it (then shat the turbo and ran it NA for a while) and it was a screamer. Make sure you do the timing belt when you pull the engine if it's been sitting forever too, interference engine and belt needs to be done every 80,000km.

    Come to think of it I still have the Haltech and the old turbo manifold kicking around at home....
    This is an interesting piece of information indeed... We may need to talk about the aquisition of these parts. How did you go fitting the turbo into the engine bay?? Looks like there is a bit of room there. Do you still use the same inlet manifold and get a fuel rail made up or something?

  27. #27
    "The bitches, are wet" Sketchy's Avatar
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    I fitted mine to an E30 323i so different engine bay layout in terms of the booster etc, but its a basic log manifold so may still work.

    As far as inlet manifold and fuel rail I used the standard later model EFI setup, as it so happens I have one of those spare too I've still got pics of my modified inlet manifold somewhere but essentially I cut the standard mounting flange for the throttle body off, welded on a piece of 10mm thick alloy plate and port matched to a falcon 80mm throttle body. Falcon injectors drop into the standard rail no problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimi View Post
    80mm of penetration isn't bad, i wish i had that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnitzelburger View Post
    My entire working career pretty much consists of suckin dick and takin names.

    Sometimes im too busy to take names.

  28. #28
    Grumble bum 68RNR's Avatar
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    This is sounding better and better...
    So plan could be rip the engine, give it a birthday with new timing belt and some gaskets etc, then bolt on turbo and a haltech and rip skids. If I keep the boost at reasonable levels then the diff / gearbox could possibly survive....

  29. #29
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    They made turbo versions of these, it will work.

    Diff will die, r200 goes in nicely though
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  30. #30
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Doesn't the E21 Booster/master sit *exactly* where you put the Turbo on a 6 cyl rhd BMW?
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

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