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Thread: Porsche 997 C2S - Back to ze fatherland

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    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    Porsche 997 C2S - Back to ze fatherland

    So after much to and fro and multiple threads here in PF, i ended up committing to buying a 997 Carerra 2S here in Europe. It is a UK spec RHD 2004 model (Oct 2004) with 61,000 miles and a rebuilt engine by Hartech and new clutch.

    Back story:
    Originally i was looking for a 996 C2 as they rediculously good value in the UK, was going to buy a UK car to bring over to Germany where i'm living here, with the intent to import back to Australia and then potentially buy a 996 cup car (race car) and like a mad scientist, "make them one" with the objective of having a road registered cup car. Sort of like the movie "The Fly" but using a Porsche...

    One thing led to another and a narrow body car wasn't good enough, so I started looking at 996 C4S cars. The headlights however are something i just cannot learn to love no matter how i try and really it was never a certainly to create the frankenporsche. So bascially i wanted to love the car i bought as i could end up owning it for a long time. So i found myself looking at 997 C2's and then 997 C2S's with the wide body... and then i looked at Carsales in Oz and realised i could buy a 997 C2S, use it for a year of autobahn blasting in Germany, import it back to Oz, register it and still be a bucket load ahead. So that then became the plan. This car will be a keeper and given values of 997's in the UK are basically at the lowest they'll ever be, it is a good time to jump in.

    Now:
    So, next Friday 22nd September i fly to the UK, pay for and pick up the car and then begin the drive back to Ebersberg (30mins East of Munich) from London. It's a great drive, i will be going thru Belgium and staying in Trier on Saturday night which is an amazing and historical little town in Germany near the border of Luxumbourg. Then on the Sunday it will be autobahns most of the way to Munich where we will see if the 299kph vmax is indeed accurate for this car

    Some will remember i did this back in February this year with an e46 M3, that car is now caged and is my street/track car and i also intend to ship it back to Australia when we move back in 2019. This time i am taking notes about the entire process with the aim of writing a blog article about how to buy and import a UK car into Germany, then into Australia.

    Some of the main specs on the 997 C2S are as follows:
    Midnight blue paint
    Grey interior
    manual
    wide body ("S" models have the same body as the turbo, which you want)
    Pirelli tyres all round
    New engine 7,000 miles ago (engine was rebuilt due to bore score and included 3 new pistons), IMS bearing and clutch were also replaced at the same time. It was a £10,000 exercise for the poor chap.
    Full leather interior

    This was the ad text: "This car had a full engine re-build in August 2015 by Hartech, giving any prospective owner additional peace of mind. Hartech replaced cylinders 4, 5 & 6 with new Nikasil-plated aluminium alloy cylinders, pistons, gaskets and seals, crank shaft bearings, etc. Hartech also fitted a new intermediate shaft (the post-2006, larger bearing version), and a new clutch. This car has a full service history, and is an incredible car to own and drive. 5+ owners, Next MOT due 30/06/2018, Full service history, Blue, £24,750"

    The car was advertised for £24,750 GBP. I wanted a darker colour ideally or red would have been my 1st choice but being so rare the only red car was way out of my budget range and overpriced. Colour wasn't my highest priority, although i didn't look at silver cars at all lol, my biggest preference was low miles and a rebuilt engine to take care of the IMS and bore score gremlins that tend to plague early 997s and all 996s.

    After negotiations we agreed on a price of £24,000 subject to inspection. The inspection included a bore scope and cost me a significant £330. It picked up some issues incl a busted A/C and heated seats control unit (£550 fix) a non N rated tyre which would have caused me issues getting TUV in Germany and N rates tyres aren't cheap (about £250 for the Pirelli i needed to match the others). There was also another £300 worth of bits and bobs and a few other minor issues i let go. The specialist who did the inspection (9Excellence) actually remarked how good and strong the engine is, they said the car is very solid and the engine very strong, just needed a few mainly cosmetic bits fixed which the seller dutifully did.

    So we are go!! Can't believe i'm going to own a Porsche, my favourite marque of all, although it isn't a GT3 it is a very nice piece of kit and i hope to enjoy it for a long time. The fact i get to use it to it's fullest on the unlimited autobahns whilst i'm living in Germany is all the sweeter. Although i am not planning on buying 1000+ Euro's worth of winter tyres so i won't be able to drive it on the road between mid October and mid March. But the M3 does have winter tyres so i think i'll cope

    I don't intend to modify this car although i may do some cosmetic improvements. I'll update the thread with info of issues, servicing etc also so it should provide a good resource for later model 911 ownership.

    Here are some pics from the ad. I'll update this thread with pics and info from the road trip next weekend:



















    Last edited by Sonicevo; 18-09-17 at 12:45 AM.

  2. #2
    M_Powered PeterD's Avatar
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    Lovely car and a great spec! Congratulations!!


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    Registered User lightyear's Avatar
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    Looks great on the outside, inside is a bit dated looking, but who cares. It would be exciting to buy a Porsche for sure. I did look at one, but seeing as the back seat is completely unusable it was not going to happen.
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  4. #4
    "The bitches, are wet" Sketchy's Avatar
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    I also reckon they look very Volkswagenish inside in this spec, but A) it's a Porsche so who cares B) there's plenty of options to improve it and C) it's not my car so my opinion doesn't count for dick.

    Excellent pick up mate, you'll enjoy it for years to come. These things are a cracking drive!
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    Registered User HSV Senator's Avatar
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    Looks awesome! Well done.
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    Nice one Mick. I think your enjoying yourself too much.LOL
    I told them I once raced cars (total lie ) pissed them right off I will think of something bigger.

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    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    Thanks blokes Yeah the interior colour wouldn't have been my first choice but there's always a compromise with a 2nd hand car with reliability vs ideal spec vs budget. The only option the car is missing is sports chrono but meh i can live without it. All the other cars with it in the similar price bracket have 80-90k miles on the clock. I think low miles trumps most things where Porka's are concerned, resale-wise. Whilst i intend to own this car for many years it still pays to prepare for any scenario.

    I have three young kids - 11, 7 and 5 so the back seat will be fine for the youngsters for a few years. And once they are older it will be a nice w/e car for the wife and I. I'm looking forward to attending some more race events to spectate with the kids and doing some more road trips to Austria/Germany/Italy/France to see some events and different tracks. This car should make the road trips a bit more enjoyable The kids are pretty stoked, i think they just think everybody owns various race cars and sports cars given the number of cars i've owned in the past 10 yrs lol.

  8. #8
    Registered User I'm DJ!'s Avatar
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    Yeah this is awesome.

    Agreed on 2nd hand car. Buy the condition not the spec I was once told. The allroad I just grabbed is a grandpa colour, but the one I wanted , black on black with RS6 wheels had another 45000kms for the same price and was rough as guts in person...

    I like it. Vids of VMAX not loading.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    Another day in Germany another day getting told off... Fucking hell i get told off by somebody every second day here for something. Cunts need to mind their own business a bit more... Been one of those days!

    Mostly coz i am in a big bind.... the ADAC has stopped offering their cross border insurance and there is literally nobody in Germany that offers it to bring a foreign registered vehicle here with comprehensive insurance. My normal insurance company won't cover a car without TUV and German rego and no no other insurance company here will. The ADAC told me to go to the auto rego office but they were closed for the day. At 2pm. Anyway last time they told me to go to the ADAC lol so unless they've introduced a new policy they are going to be useless.

    I can get a uk short term insurance policy but for the EU it's only 3rd party. Really for a car like this you want comprehensive. Looks like its my best option but even when i get it home to Germany its going to sit in the garage uninsured until i can get the tuv passed and rego on it. You'd think it was 1990 ffs.

    Maybe i should consider some traders export insurance but i doubt thats gonna be cheap. Anybody got any insurance hookups in Europe that could steer me in the right direction?

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    Registered User Stix Zadinia's Avatar
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    wow, someone must not have ever used your radio - the buttons haven't gone sticky
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    ARE YOU REAAAAADY? Grunt's Avatar
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    I have just scrolled over thread mate and congrats on the purchase - Having owned one I think you will find that the C2S is actually the narrow body. C4S wide body. regardless, enjoy it and great car!

    As for those sticky buttons on the aircon and Stix comments - even mine had some of that at 30,000km - pelican parts sell them and the window switches (same issue) cheaply and you can change them yourself.
    Last edited by Grunt; 21-09-17 at 02:18 PM.
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  12. #12
    Little engine that could. itsnotagsr's Avatar
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    Call up the UK car specialist insurers that advertise in the enthusiast mags.
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  13. #13
    TJzone TJ's Avatar
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    Just drive it back to Germany really fast
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    Registered User I'm DJ!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonicevo View Post
    Another day in Germany another day getting told off... Fucking hell i get told off by somebody every second day here for something. Cunts need to mind their own business a bit more... Been one of those days!

    Mostly coz i am in a big bind.... the ADAC has stopped offering their cross border insurance and there is literally nobody in Germany that offers it to bring a foreign registered vehicle here with comprehensive insurance. My normal insurance company won't cover a car without TUV and German rego and no no other insurance company here will. The ADAC told me to go to the auto rego office but they were closed for the day. At 2pm. Anyway last time they told me to go to the ADAC lol so unless they've introduced a new policy they are going to be useless.

    I can get a uk short term insurance policy but for the EU it's only 3rd party. Really for a car like this you want comprehensive. Looks like its my best option but even when i get it home to Germany its going to sit in the garage uninsured until i can get the tuv passed and rego on it. You'd think it was 1990 ffs.

    Maybe i should consider some traders export insurance but i doubt thats gonna be cheap. Anybody got any insurance hookups in Europe that could steer me in the right direction?
    haha fuck. Yeah, I married one. You think getting told off there is bad. Just wait until the whole family visits for lunch.

    No joy on insurance hook-ups other than as TJ suggested, go a uk one maybe?
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  15. #15
    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    So went to the German car rego office and as expected, no luck. Seems there is a big hole now the ADAC don't do cross border insurance that you cannot insure a car with foreign plates for the purpose of driving it to Germany (or any other country) after buying.

    UK car insurers will not insure you if you are not a UK resident and been living in the UK for ~12+ months. I tried half a dozen including specialists and brokers.

    So the only option is "UK short term insurance" however they will not cover you for "exporting the car during the policy" meaning your start and end dates must be a UK residence. Given the seller will still have their registration and insurance running until Monday, it is a very grey area coz it's effectively still their car and i am "borrowing" it, which my insurance covers me for. I have paid 190GBP for 4 days insurance but it really is just for formalities in case i get stopped by the Politzei. I hope to fuck i don't need to make a claim as that could get very messy. And i only have 3rd party property outside the UK so my own car isn't even covered for damage or theft. So suffice to say there will be no autobahn shenanigans on this drive back and i will be adhering to all the speed limits whilst paranoid as all hell. Am even considering now just doing the drive in one hit to get it home into the garage rather than risk an overnight stay in Trier.

    Then once i get the car into my garage i am effectively uninsured and unregistered. I can't even legally drive it 400m from my house to the local TUV to get compliance FFS. So i'll probably have to get it towed there each way. I will be so glad when this entire saga is behind me and the car is German registered and insured... what a complete cluster fuck.

  16. #16
    GTFO of my ED doctor ed's Avatar
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    single day number plate (yellow)..!! can get them for un TÜV'd abgemeldete autos for transport purposes. (kuzzeitkennzeichen)

    rock up to rego office with car details (car make and model, no VINs involved) pay €40 or whatever it is, and speak to your insurance. youve got cover for 5days

    did it once 3years ago when buying/selling an unregistered shitbox. no dramas, and no real specifics of car required

    http://www.strassenverkehrsamt.de/kf...eitkennzeichen

    specifically:
    Kurzzeitkennzeichen sind nicht ortsgebunden. Es darf also an einem Ort zugelassen werden und dann an einem evtl. abweichenden Standort des Fahrzeuges montiert werden. Mit einem Kurzzeitkennzeichen dürfen aber nur folgende Fahrten unternommen werden:
    Probefahrten
    Überführung eines Fahrzeuges vom Kaufort zum Wohnort

    Im Gegensatz zu den roten Kennzeichen, die ausschließlich für gewerbliche KFZ Händler bestimmt sind, sind die Kurzzeitkennzeichen auch für Privatleute verfügbar. Dabei ist zu beachten, dass ein Kurzzeitkennzeichen nur an einem Fahrzeug benutzt werden darf. Eine wechselnde Verwendung an mehreren Fahrzeugen ist nicht zulässig. Des Weiteren ist zu beachten, dass für die Zulassung eines Kurzzeitkennzeichens nun die Vorlage der Fahrzeugpapiere und eines gültigen HU Nachweises notwendig ist. Die Vorlage kann bei den meisten Zulassungsstellen auch in Kopie erfolgen. Sollte die Vorlage einer gültigen HU nicht möglich sein, wird das Kurzzeitkennzeichen für Fahrten innerhalb des Zulassungsbezirkes eingeschränkt.

    if you have to, just lie a little and get yourself covered for the biggest part of your trip... " oh yes mr deskdriver, im buying the car from just this side of the Luxembourg border and driving it straight home"
    Mit freundlichen Grüße

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    Registered User bigshipengine.jpg's Avatar
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    No fried egg headlghts. Like.

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    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    ^^ Ed thing is i don't need rego, i can drive the uk car legally on the road, i need insurance for a car with foreign rego, they call it "grenzversicherung".no German insurance company offer it now the ADAC has stopped, i think their provider Arisa went out of business.

    Anyway i worked it out with the seller so we will date the sale contracts as of monday and between now and then he effectively still owns the car and i am borrowing it and my short term insurance covers this. So should be fine but still only third party insurance outside of the UK so i'm be taking things easy.

    I expect another insurance company will do the grenzversicherung in future, i am just unlucky to be needing it whilst it is not available on the market.

  19. #19
    GTFO of my ED doctor ed's Avatar
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    Don't use the uk rego. Use the German kurzzeitkennzeichen rego, and it then insured.
    Mit freundlichen Grüße

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Duckworth View Post
    "I think that in a racing engine, the closer it is to disintegrating, in general the better its performance will be "

  20. #20
    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    Too late, i'm about to get on a plane to London!!

    But thanks for the advice, in hindsight i should have hit u up a week ago but i didn't find out the ADAC let me down until only Wednesday this week.

  21. #21
    Registered User darkside's Avatar
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    Bummer about the insurance ball ache Mick. But well played. That's a nice thing. Great way to get around the continent.

  22. #22
    Registered User I'm DJ!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor ed View Post
    Don't use the uk rego. Use the German kurzzeitkennzeichen rego, and it then insured.
    Yeah reading that post above, this is the go. But your plan works too so all good.

    I guess the kurzeitkennzeichen will help with moving it around for tuv approvals though?
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  23. #23
    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    ^ yep DJ you're right i will arrange it for TUV and any necessary trips to Porsche if i need work done.

    The car is now in my possession and it drives great!!! At my Aunt's tonight south of London and hitting the road first thing tomoz. Will post some pics then 👌

  24. #24
    Registered User I'm DJ!'s Avatar
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    Awesome!! Safe travels.
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    GTFO of my ED doctor ed's Avatar
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    and?
    Mit freundlichen Grüße

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Duckworth View Post
    "I think that in a racing engine, the closer it is to disintegrating, in general the better its performance will be "

  26. #26
    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    Sorry will update soon, arrived home on Sunday and had friends over from Australia arrive Monday and been here partying all week, i'm gonna need to dry out lol... Currently down in Tyrol and back to home/work tomoz and will update. The car has actually been at a Porsche specialist since Tuesday and is apparently now all TUV approved and ready to register. Will pick it up tomorrow and report. 😀

  27. #27
    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    I arrived in the UK at 11am last Friday 22nd Sept, my uncle and Aunt picked me up, we drove 30 mins from Gatwick to the sellers house, went for a quick test drive and to the bank. I was very lucky my relo's were fine with me transferring 24,000GBP direct from Australia to their bank account in the UK using Transferwise. It made things very easy for the funds transfer and saved me a good grand or two in money changing commissions.

    So by early afternoon i was driving back to the relo's stayed there the night then hit the Eurotunnel at 8.45am the next day. To get the day insurance the seller agreed not to lodge the change of ownership paperwork until the following Monday so effectively i was "borrowing" the car for the weekend lol. I stayed in Trier on Saturday night which was about half way between London and my home town of Ebersberg (which is near Munich). Trier is pretty close to the Nurburgring and also is the Parc Ferme for the WRC Deutschland when it's on in August each year. In is an amazing old town, quintessential German medieval town. Walked around the town, had dinner and beers just chilling by myself no wife and kids!

    Next day i hit the road around 10am and much of the trip was unlimited Autobahns so i gave it a bit of stick whilst still being 'careful' due to only having 3rd party property insurance for the trip home. The first 200km between Trier and Stuttgart was winding forest Autobahn, quite bumpy and winding. The road quality was quite bad actually and as a result i didn't get much over 230kph. As this was my first time ever driving a Porka, let alone at speed i was feeling the car a bit and found the push understeer on high speed sections a bit unnerving, suppose it's better than oversteer when doing 200+ with other cars around lol. But i had to really modulate the throttle on the windy sections coz if i stepped on it too hard the front would rise ever so slightly losing grip and tended to understeer toward the barrier!

    Once i hit Stuttgart the Autobahn opens up a lot, much straighter and wider but unfortunately there was heaps of Sunday traffic on the road. I also saw two crashes on the other side of the Autobahn between Stuttgart and Munich, once was a bad fatality, i am unsure how many cars involved but 50km+ traffic jams and it was on the radio every 15 minutes, talking about injured kids etc, real bad. There was another crash on the other side with a car sandwiched sideways in the fast lane between a car and the barrier, about 5 cars involved. When it goes bad on the Autobhan here, it goes real bad.

    So with all that in mind i took it pretty easy most of the way, had a nice play with an Audi R8 hitting up around 250kph on a few sections but most of the time just cruised along at 160-200 which was a nice comfortable speed in the car. The steering feel on the Porsche is very direct, much more direct than the e46 M3. The direct steering and not great road quality actually made the car quite skittish at high speed. I found the M3 much more stable at 250kph i must say which is unexpected. I think i will have to buy a 997 GT3 steering wheel for the Porsche coz i quite dislike the thin wheel.

    I am very lucky to have a Porsche specialist in Ebersberg less than 1 km away from me so i dropped in to see them on the following Monday and they said no problem to drive the car unregistered on their red plates, sweet! So i picked the guy up on Tuesday and brought him back to my house and he took the car. I had already bought some used Xenon headlights from a guy in Poland ($1300AUD for used headlights - ouch - but still much cheaper than from Porsche). The Porsche specialist changed the headlights for me, re-wired the rear fog light to the other side and that was all that was needed, TUV is sorted! All for 580Euro including the labour and TUV paperwork, much cheaper than the M3 was!! So she is in the garage now and will be registered tomorrow all going well. I might try and get away for a weekend with the kids to spectate a racing event somewhere before i have to put the car away for winter in 2-3 weeks. I don't have winter tyres and given i'm only here for 1.5 more winter seasons i can't justify $1200+ Euro to buy a set of tyres that i'll barely use. I may try and get some used ones but we'll see. The M3 has winter tyres so if i feel productive i might remove the rollcage for the winter so i can use all the seats.

    Here are some pics of my trip from London to Ebersberg:

    The Car:

















    Trier:














    I think i'm pretty close to achieving my dream garage: e46 M3 track car and Porsche 997 road car

    Last edited by Sonicevo; 03-10-17 at 08:40 PM.

  28. #28
    Registered User I'm DJ!'s Avatar
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    So fucking jealous right now. Also ten points to you nopics for her support, what a champ.
    DJ's don't need sigs

  29. #29
    Arrogant wankeler Slides's Avatar
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    Nice garage

  30. #30
    Registered User Sonicevo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm DJ! View Post
    So fucking jealous right now. Also ten points to you nopics for her support, what a champ.
    You've got that right! I am still stunned she agreed to it, but i have been doing a lot more chores around the house lately lol.

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