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Thread: Uber-noob part fabrication question

  1. #1
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Uber-noob part fabrication question

    Thereís so little knowledge behind this question that I hesitate to poast it here ... but I still think itís more relevant than in General.

    I need an e-fan shroud. Iíve not bothered yet because Iíve never really needed it, Iíve sat in bumper-to-bumper traffic on 40+ degree days for half an hour between proper movement in the past & had no problem. But the recent need for a complete coolant-system flush after temps crept higher than Iíd like makes me think I really should do something about a shroud.

    The radiator has various holes around the edges of the core where you could bolt a frame. I was thinking of a design which, in really general terms, spaces the e-fan about 5cm back from the radiator, effectively on 4x 50mm-long hollow posts that you could run a ~60mm long bolt through to support the weight of the e-fan hanging off the back of the radiator; and the rest of the shroud can then be pretty lightweight aluminium albeit in whatís not a super-simple shape.
    Itís probably a case of making a frame & Ďdrapingí the lightweight stuff over the top.

    At the moment thereís no finalised design, the above is a general brain-fart.

    But ... where do you go to get small one-off stuff like that put together? I had a fabrication place weld a coilpack-frame to a cam-cover once; they werenít unhappy to do it, but it was obviously an unusual request for them, and I think they only did it because there was no fabrication needed & they were just being pleasant guys.

    Or ... is now the time to start learning to weld? I canít imagine that what I want is an easy place to start.
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  2. #2
    Arrogant wankeler Slides's Avatar
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    Can't just use the through core ties? Or you really want the whole core area?

    Hobbiest fabricator probably best bet unless you can supply common CAD files?
    Last edited by Slides; 16-12-17 at 03:51 PM.

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    This is how I would do it.

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    Registered User Potsy's Avatar
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    Matt, you need to see a sheet metal fabricator with some dimensions based on above from Fondles.

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    or send me the dims and I'll adjust what I drew and email you back with a .dxf
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    Registered User Potsy's Avatar
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    Even betterer, there ya go Forgmeister !

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    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Ooh, ta for the offer!

    Would something like this wonderfully-drawn idea be better at allowing cooling while moving? Or don't you need it so much while moving?

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    I guess the angled side would aide with airflow whilst driving with the fan turned off but its best to let someone more informed answer that.

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    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    If I get those dimesions & get you to DXF me, can I get the ďFondlesĒ writing included?
    Somehow ...
    Would be cool to have to explain to the few that ask ...
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    lol, yeah can leave the fondles in.

    Gimme the dims and I will resize it also what material you want to make it from, at the moment ive drawn it for 1.5mm alloy.

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    Registered User neil_se's Avatar
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    Fondles original drawing is how I made mine from 1.6mm ally.



    http://www.performanceforums.com/for...#post842740327

    I'm in 2 minds about adding holes with rubber flaps to cover so that the air can bypass the fan at higher road speeds, or just have the fan turn off above 50kph so it's not restricting air flow.


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    Resident Oaf Jim's Avatar
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    If the fan is large enough to draw enough air to cool it, you donít need the flaps.
    A square box is fine as the fan creates a pressure difference on that side of the core and that is mostly even within the shroud. Itís why fans should always be set up to draw air through the core rather than in front pushing it through. Just make sure the shroud fits snugly or is sealed well onto the radiator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    If the fan is large enough to draw enough air to cool it, you donít need the flaps.
    A square box is fine as the fan creates a pressure difference on that side of the core and that is mostly even within the shroud.
    I was thinking, though, that if the design were angled, then when travelling at speed you'd get air channelled through the big round hole rather than "pooling" against the flat surface of the square box (and not flowing backwards as easily - hence building higher air pressure where it "pools" and reducing airflow overall)?
    In my case I don't think it makes any difference, I had a quick 2nd look yesterday (didn't have a tape measure so don't have measurements yet) and the radiator is very close to square (probably about a 9:10 ratio or thereabouts) and the e-fan has about the same diameter as the height of the radiator & is only about 1cm short of having the same diameter as the length of the radiator. So unless a semi-conical shape from the e-fan back to the radiator is adopted, both above designs of Fondles' (which both have flat metal in the four semi-triangular sections of the shroud top-left, bottom-left, top-right and bottom-right) will look near identical to each other for my car.
    Will measurement when I get motivated (there's a bit of stuffing-around to do it properly, really need to get underneath which means jack-stands).

    What thickness of what material would you use to be spacing an 18"-ish e-fan back 3cm from the radiator?
    Last edited by Captiva Fan; 20-12-17 at 08:59 AM.
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  14. #14
    sexy fingers
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    with my twin thermos on my 4wd i spaced the shroud back with some 12mm thick adhesive tape from clark rubber. the shroud was fabb'd to be just about touching the radiator so it got some nice preload on the tape and seals well.

    shroud was made of ally around the 1.5mm with 2 x 16inch spal fans.

    ive always wondered what happens with a basically sealed shroud in high road speed applications. surely it would cause a restriction of airflow across the core compared with open shroud??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captiva Fan View Post
    Will measurement when I get motivated (there's a bit of stuffing-around to do it properly, really need to get underneath which means jack-stands).
    what car is it, might be able to find dims online.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    what car is it, might be able to find dims online.
    Good suggestion ... I'll try to remember to Google for radiator dimensions for a 1980 242/244/245 with B23E tonight ...
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  18. #18
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    Most likely. That's the plastic end-tank version, it's used for all 24x's because it'll fit in all of them; but I've got a copper-end-tanks one that's been re-cored.
    I'm just thinking there may be some stuff that's not identical between that I mine - slightly different dimensions wouldn't matter for fitting the above where mine is, because there's not a lot of factory stuff around it, but there may be a problem because of whacky bits I've added (eg. I've fitted a 740T oil-cooler next to the radiator in the 740T location; no factory 240 has a cooler there).
    Some Googlage (or measurement) should answer those questions.
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    gimme the height, width between tanks and those 4 mounting point dims.
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    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    OK ... well it may be a bit more complicated than I thought.
    That shape in the photo above is basically what it looks like ... how do you seal it off with the shape around the join between the end-tanks & the core?

    Anyhoo, the dimensions above are correct in terms of where the 4 mount-holes are.
    However the fan is slightly bigger than the radiator, albeit only by a cm.
    So the vertical distance between the mounts is 425mm as shown. The overall height of the core itself is 390mm, the width of the core (ie. gap between end-tanks) is 450mm. The fan is 400mm diameter.

    It needs to be 30mm deep.

    Iím wondering whether maybe I should get a slightly smaller fan?
    Last edited by Captiva Fan; 01-01-18 at 03:03 PM.
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    Foam tape. You can find it in what I suspect would be a Bunnings in AU? (Lowes/home depot/hardware stores) It'll be in the aisle with the air conditioning units or door and window seals.

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    I'll draw it up tomoz for ya, got any specs on the fan ?.
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    Registered User neil_se's Avatar
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    Something like this should work to seal it off

    https://www.clarkrubber.com.au/epdm-...ll-21mm-x-13mm

  24. #24
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    I'll draw it up tomoz for ya, got any specs on the fan ?.
    I did say above it was 400mm, I'll drill the mounting holes myself once I find how to line it up.

    But ... I'm now thinking maybe I should get another fan, the fact that the fan is bigger than the core is going to make the whole shroud a bit complicated.
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  25. #25
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    Overkill SPAL e-fan should be arriving at work this morning ... so should be able to measure it's interior diameter this evening.
    Good excuse to drive to work & not get wet (although the car did - erk!).
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  26. #26
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    OK ... new SPAL fan.with 1900cfm of juicy air movement has arrived ... exactly 360mm hole required.

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    here go mate, sorry for the delay but is amazing how busy one can be when they don't have a job !!

    448mm wide x 445mm tall (bolt flange to bolt flange) and 30mm deep, hole is 360mm.

    Let me know if the height is too much and I'll pull it back a bit, as it is now ive allowed 10mm of meat from the hole centre out.

    But if you happy with it flick me a pm with your email and I'll send the dxf over.



    Last edited by Fondles; 09-01-18 at 05:44 AM.
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  28. #28
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    Ta, much appreciated!
    I'll measure it, hopefully tonight, and flick you a PM.
    It's unfortunate ... but based on what people have said about wanting to seal it to ensure the right pressures etc, I think I'll have to get you to remove the FONDLES ... which is a bit sad.
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    lol no worries to delete fondles !

    for the corners if you do not want to weld just squirt some sikaflex on the inside.

    ive drawn it to suit 1.5mm ally, if you intend to use thicker let me know so i can adjust the bend lines to suit.
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  30. #30
    PF's #1 soft roader advocate Captiva Fan's Avatar
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    How would I go about working-out the thickness to use?
    Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

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