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Thread: Septone Chassis Black not curing???

  1. #1
    Sidetracked BMWTurbo's Avatar
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    Septone Subframe Black not curing???

    Gents,

    I don't have much luck with paint despite my best efforts...

    I know that the Septone Subframe black isn't the most durable or best choice in general, I just wanted something to make the underside of the car all the same colour and clean and tidy when working on it. I don't really have access to a spray gun inside the workshop to paint it on the hoist, so chose the Subframe black to give a quick lick of something to make it neat and tidy.

    Under the car was a mixture of factory deadener type rubberised coating, primed steel and enamel touched up sections. The underside was gently wire brushed, a thick bristle scrubbing brush and water used also then (lots of panel shop and other dust on the surface), it was dried and wiped down with prepsol, allowed to dry and a single coat of Subframe black put on with a small foam roller and brushes.

    Paint was shaken vigorously in the tin before use.

    It's been hot and humid in BNE over Christmas, but I've found even after nearly a week, the rubberised sections of the underbody have not hardened. Primed arrears and non-rubber coated sections have all dried perfectly fine, but this rest remains tacky to touch. It looks absolutely fine, but the tackiness is an issue, I need to run fuel lines under the car and don't particularly want them sticking to the paint nor other parts of my body when working under it.

    Paint feels we adhered and not showing any real sign of coming off, it is thin and with a torch you can 'see through' it, but to be expected after a single coat of paint I'd say. The problem is it's tacky to touch. Happy to put another coat on it if that's likely to help, but also don't want to flog a dead horse.

    What are my options here? I can't see that it will come off easily... Put another coat on it?

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    Last edited by BMWTurbo; 02-01-18 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Subframe Blasck was used not Chassis Black

  2. #2
    U gon dun wha now? Speedyblue's Avatar
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    It's enamel isn't it? If so, it'll probably be soft and feel tacky for a few days.
    Ya'll don't know what it's like. Being male, middle class and white.

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    Sidetracked BMWTurbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedyblue View Post
    It's enamel isn't it? If so, it'll probably be soft and feel tacky for a few days.
    Yeah, it's Enamel. It said touch dry in an hour hard in 24hrs, which some of if has, it's been over a week and the rest was is tacky.

  4. #4
    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    What's the difference between Subframe black and Chassis black?

    I've used the Subframe black and it was touch dry in 12 hours.
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

  5. #5
    Sidetracked BMWTurbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
    What's the difference between Subframe black and Chassis black?

    I've used the Subframe black and it was touch dry in 12 hours.
    I think I have used Subframe Black like you have. It's a very thin black enamel like what you have there. I have them confused.

    Chassis Black is bituminous based, which is not what I used.


  6. #6
    Half Shafted. Madhatr's Avatar
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    did you thin it with anything?

    Looking at the SDS the solvent base is a whole bunch of xylene and a good portion of naphtha. Naphtha is a rubber solvent, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if its the previous underbody seal that has been disturbed and is all sticky now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buford T. Justice
    This happens every time one of these floozies starts poontangin' around with those show folk fags.

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    Sidetracked BMWTurbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madhatr View Post
    did you thin it with anything?

    Looking at the SDS the solvent base is a whole bunch of xylene and a good portion of naphtha. Naphtha is a rubber solvent, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if its the previous underbody seal that has been disturbed and is all sticky now.
    Just applied it 'neat'. It's like water to start with.

    Might be worth putting another coat over it based on what you've mentioned?

  8. #8
    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    The Subframe Black is really thin watery shit, when I did that diff I put on heaps of coats, as soon as it looked a little dry i dipped the brush and went over it again.

    Dried completely "overnight" but that was putting it on metal, not on a rubberised surface.
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

  9. #9
    Registered User BLO 767's Avatar
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    There is some interaction between a paint base, material base and some type of flexible polyurethane/rubber base that prevents curing. And I bet it's in that bitumen base.

    I ran into it a few years ago after I cut and shut some lower control arms. Never seen anything like it before or since. I used roll bar / chassis paint too.

    I painted and Sika'd them, and with whatever I used on the flexible sealant sections, there was this exact situation you're experiencing where they just wouldn't bloody cure and felt tacky for days, weeks even. It took a good month or two but they eventually hardened up, much quicker so after I wiped down the surface.

    Take a non linty cloth (like a microfibre chamois) and just wipe it gently over the surface to knock off the top and allow a bit more oxygen into the pigment.
    Last edited by BLO 767; 02-01-18 at 06:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    This stuff?

    Attachment 104126

    Yeah it doesn't cure or "dry". I posted about this a while back. It's crap.

    Wire brush is your new close friend. Get the Zinc based epoxy or cold gal. If you've the money go with a POR15 or KBS equivalent.
    Last edited by mizone; 03-01-18 at 08:41 PM.

  11. #11
    Registered User BLO 767's Avatar
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    I personally use and rate Sikaguard underbody coating. It's best sprayed on though.

    We used to use it on the state transit buses back in the trade days, and I don't need to tell you how much of a beating they cop. It holds up really well, and you can 2pak right over it if you want to match your body colour underbody.

  12. #12
    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    Do all Septone products have the AIDS?

    First I primed and cleaned the metal and got this result.

    I figured it was a reaction between the primer and acrylic high build.

    Nope.

    This is bare metal and the same Septone high build crap. Same result.
    Last edited by mizone; 03-01-18 at 08:42 PM.

  13. #13
    U gon dun wha now? Speedyblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizone View Post
    Do all Septone products have the AIDS?
    From my experience, yes. It took me way too many years to discover that decent body fillers don't harden to diamond like hardness that is impossible to sand.
    Ya'll don't know what it's like. Being male, middle class and white.

  14. #14
    Half Shafted. Madhatr's Avatar
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    Thats fried like that because of contaminants or lack of adhesion.

    If you took it to bare metal, did you etch prime it afterwards?

    If that is over the primer, what did you clean it with?
    Last edited by Madhatr; 05-01-18 at 12:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buford T. Justice
    This happens every time one of these floozies starts poontangin' around with those show folk fags.

  15. #15
    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madhatr View Post
    Thats fried like that because of contaminants or lack of adhesion.

    If you took it to bare metal, did you etch prime it afterwards?

    If that is over the primer, what did you clean it with?

    First time around. Cleaned metal with prepsol and paper workshop towel. Etch primer, cleaned again with prepsol and sprayed primer to cover piece as it's got pits in the metal.

    Didn't work

    Second time, wire wheel the crud off. Cleaned with prepsol and ran a second wipe with a paper towel afterwards to check for residue. then the photo was taken seconds after second coat of acrylic primer.

    Did the SAME PREP PROCESS with epoxy black - no problems. Will allow to cure and skim it with bondo before paint.

  16. #16
    Registered User BLO 767's Avatar
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    FWIW I don't use and have never rated Septone. I had to use some of the primer filler and took me 3 goes to get right. Product just got off on sinking back.

    Weird mottling. I'd wonder how long it's been sitting or if it's been overheated at some point.

  17. #17
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    I've got a neary full 4L tin of that chassis black, it's shit alright, there's not one Septone or Motospray paint/filler I've ever bought that hasn't been. Ends up costing more than decent stuff.
    Last edited by SRV; 08-01-18 at 10:00 PM.

  18. #18
    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    I used the Septone Subframe Black to paint a couple of subframes (no shit) and the diff like I posted earlier in the thread.

    It turned out pretty good I thought.

    But I did use their Rust Prime product first and then the Subframe Black on top of that, and it was directly on metal after a good wire-brushing.

    The only shitty thing was/is how watery and thin it is, you can't load up a brush otherwise the shit just runs everywhere, needs lots of thin coats, can't do a heavy coat.
    Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    Look, just because you drive a couple of imported luxo Pommy cars doesn't mean you need to act like an Imperialistic Lapdog and be the last bastion of defence for Straya The Beaut's mid-20th-Century ideals
    Quote Originally Posted by nutttr View Post
    People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

  19. #19
    Registered User BLO 767's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Nicholson View Post

    The only shitty thing was/is how watery and thin it is, you can't load up a brush otherwise the shit just runs everywhere, needs lots of thin coats, can't do a heavy coat.
    That's what I mean by wonder how long it sat. Almost looks to have taken on water with that kind of mottle.

  20. #20
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Subframe black sprays quite nicely - did the bottom of the XY with a touch up gun on jackstands - that was fun.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  21. #21
    Sidetracked BMWTurbo's Avatar
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    Figured I had nothing to loose by having another crack at this with a second coat. Interestingly it did appear to cure quickly in some of the areas that I re-coated, but others had the same issue still.

    It seems absolutely fine on metal or previously painted surfaces and drys very quickly. It does soften back up with a second coat to a degree and this was clearly evident as the roller tub I'd used with hardened paint from last time in it softened and dissolved into the new paint.

    I'll have another look when I'm back next week, but also tried spraying some enamel from a can over the top of it in one section to see if that helped, as it will be a much simple fix to do that rather than try and remove it all.

    As a reference I've previously used Killrust Epoxy inside the wheel wells over the same factory coating and it has lasted very well without exhibiting any of these issues.

    I would not use this (Subframe Black) for anything over than clean/primed/painted parts again.

  22. #22
    Real life axe man Justin Bieber's Avatar
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    Stripped and painted underside of my old hilux with shitone, was a fucking disaster. Never cured properly and the sand just stuck to it. Complete waste of time.
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  23. #23
    Sidetracked BMWTurbo's Avatar
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    Revisited this and still not 100% cured. CBF'd stripping it so will just leave it and continued on with the build.
    20180127_143054.jpg
    20180127_143048.jpg

  24. #24
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    I've used this stuff to paint underneath a bunch of old Datsuns over the years. Never had a problem. It's designed for metal or painted surfaces. Problem you're experiencing is the xylene used in the product - it's a rubber solvent...

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    Got a trailer to fix up on the cheap. Was gonna just wire wheel everything on the underside and spray a few coats of Shitone chassis black straight on as its cheap and black.
    I can lay a few coats on over a day and come back and do it again next day without timewise dramas...
    Will this be a complete waste of time, or? I just want everything covered and tidy looking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skompa View Post
    Yeah, bit too nice for me, I prefer my R32s with mountains of bog and LS engines

  26. #26
    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaikai View Post
    Got a trailer to fix up on the cheap. Was gonna just wire wheel everything on the underside and spray a few coats of Shitone chassis black straight on as its cheap and black.
    I can lay a few coats on over a day and come back and do it again next day without timewise dramas...
    Will this be a complete waste of time, or? I just want everything covered and tidy looking.
    It would be cheaper and less of a head fuck if you got some epoxy black.

  27. #27
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    Few coats of that subframe black? Needs only be covered and looks decent in my eyes. Fuck me most has been bare metal for near 30 yrs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skompa View Post
    Yeah, bit too nice for me, I prefer my R32s with mountains of bog and LS engines

  28. #28
    Gas Turbine enthusiast da9jeff's Avatar
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    Dulux metal shield gloss/satin/flat black epoxy enamel from bunnings. $11 a can and the cheapest/best paint I've found for general metalwork.

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