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Thread: Upgrading brakes on VL race car

  1. #1
    Registered User adamRSLC's Avatar
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    Upgrading brakes on VL race car

    You would think upgrading early commo brakes would bee easy and budget friendly!

    My current set up is C4 (two spot sliding VR/VS era calipers on a 328x28mm rotors on the front, standard sliding 1 pot on solid disc at the back. Whilst they do stop occasionally the car is too quick and a little heavy for them to be reliable (1450kg with driver class minimum weight, IPRA 3J Late model)

    Since i was forced to change the front suspension, i went with VS uprights/VZ adventurer hubs and now can upgrade the brakes to this era. I've got access to new HSV 4 piston with 343x32 floating rotors ( will fit 17's, can run 18's) and HSV 4 piston rears 315x24 vented rear. This fits in with the 4k budget with race pads.

    I believe this should be enough braking as I can survive with the current woeful set up. The itch for a 6 piston, 355 rotor combo is strong, however the cost does blow out.

    After any experience with the above combo or hook ups for a better value set up. The car is reasonably handy, 32's at winton, 47's at PI, 22's at sandown. Pads and servicing needs to be easily available, nothing bespoke or rare, hence the factory commo parts

    Adam
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  2. #2
    Down with ma homies Greg Rust's Avatar
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    Brockas (Paul Brockbank) from Antilag does bloody good pricing on HSV spec 6 pot Brembos and Rotors new stock. Might be worth checking with him first.
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    Registered User lightyear's Avatar
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    X2. I also need brakes, but my budget is non existent.
    I hope to get some money soon, so on the look out.
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    Wouldn't get you front and rear, but no rubber dust boots to burn up like street based stuff www.powerbrake.co.za Believe the commo made it to SA, so might be able to make an adaptor bracket over there with any luck.

    350 x 34 and 6 piston was around 3 grand Au, 2000 rand cheaper in 4 pot, 5% duty and 10% gst should be under that 4k, 17" might be marginal?

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    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    These new 6 pistons Alcons seem to be the business.
    I have even ordered a set for my overweight pig.

    Available from gslrallysport on here.

    https://www.allports.nz/product-grou...aliper/product
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    A thought from left field..... have you considered Porsche Cayenne front brakes? A mate has a Cayenne, and was working on the brakes a couple of weeks ago, said he was surprised about how cheap the parts for them were.

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    Check the pad shape for your HSV calipers and make sure it's well supported. One of the problems with some of the Alcon calipers is that they run an uncommon pad shape which is not only expensive, but seriously limits your choices for compounds. I assume that you can get a proper 72 vane rotor in the correct PCD for the HSV fronts, I can't see on in the DBA5000 series catalogue.

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    Registered User DJ345's Avatar
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    This link is for the ctsv 6 piston brembo's adaptor brackets.

    https://www.bohnmancustoms.com/GTO_6...8_9873441.aspx



    Calipers off ebay

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2009-12-...19.m1438.l2649

    Last edited by DJ345; 28-02-18 at 04:12 PM.

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    First of all what compound do you currently use? if you are talking about overpowered and underbraked cars, we supply Circo M207's to a few cars in the Touring Car masters. good consistent friction with temp rated to 920˚C. Also 1 of 3 control pads for the V8SC's. Same pads cope with the abuse of 6hrs of bathurst, targa tas, Australian Offroad Championship cars etc etc.

    Most aftermarket kits will run you up 4-6k for fronts alone, even the Powerbrake X-line in a 4 piston 350x34mm is close on 5K. So if you can pick up some HSV upgrades that will work withn your budget

    Komdotkomm- Alcon pad shapes are very common amongst the performance brands

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamRSLC View Post
    You would think upgrading early commo brakes would bee easy and budget friendly!


    Since i was forced to change the front suspension, i went with VS uprights/VZ adventurer hubs and now can upgrade the brakes to this era. I've got access to new HSV 4 piston with 343x32 floating rotors ( will fit 17's, can run 18's) and HSV 4 piston rears 315x24 vented rear. This fits in with the 4k budget with race pads.

    I believe this should be enough braking as I can survive with the current woeful set up. The car is reasonably handy, 32's at winton, 47's at PI, 22's at sandown. Pads and servicing needs to be easily available, nothing bespoke or rare, hence the factory commo parts

    Adam
    I and a couple of others ran VTs in QTCC with 343/315 or 343/343 HSV brakes for years. I have since changed to 378/343 as per Supercars.

    The 343/315 or 343/343 HSV kits need good pads. I always used Pagid RS14s and had good success but others tried cheaper
    pads and were less happy. The 343/343 HSV packages were the better choice for the heavy VTs but with a VL you should find the 343/315
    adequate.

    Choice of front/rear pads is important to get the right balance unless you have a balance bar setup.
    Radical SR3
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    This thread is relevant to my interests. Have you seen this? http://www.brakesdirect.com.au/alcon-big-brake-kit-sale

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    Wow, that's outstanding value.

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    Registered User lightyear's Avatar
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    Does seem reasonable.
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  14. #14
    Registered User adamRSLC's Avatar
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    Jeez that is a good link, thanks fnlow. I'll be chasing that up, I'm hoping it will fit under 18's.


    Adam
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    Calder 1.05.76
    Phillip Island 1.47.95
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    H/Hills hill climb 1.03.3(FG XR6T)
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  15. #15
    Opens GAZ914's Avatar
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    Be sure to research the availability of replacement discs.
    You may not need them for quite some time - will you be able to get them/make something else fit in a few years?

    I've seen a lot of people having to rework the brakes they got cheap because they can't buy replacement parts later on.
    Often that means custom hats to suit available rotors and/or brackets to move the calipers to suit, etc.

    Same goes for caliper seals, etc when you want to do some maintenance in the future.

    Generally our race brake kits use relatively common AP Racing discs and calipers so we can support them into the future.

    cheers
    Gaz
    Race Car: VT Commodore (Murray)
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  16. #16
    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    V Sport have Brembo specials on
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  17. #17
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    The advantage extreme Alcon kits arent really a race kit, moreso a hi performance / modified road car, and occasional track day caliper

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    gslrallysport.com gslrallysport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    A thought from left field..... have you considered Porsche Cayenne front brakes? A mate has a Cayenne, and was working on the brakes a couple of weeks ago, said he was surprised about how cheap the parts for them were.
    The issue I have with the Cayenne brakes on a much lighter car is that the swept depth is way too high, which means a big heavy overweight rotor, and the subsequent ridiculous increase in unsprung weight. I'd be looking at a 54mm ish deep pad for something VL weight.

  19. #19
    gslrallysport.com gslrallysport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komdotkom View Post
    One of the problems with some of the Alcon calipers is that they run an uncommon pad shape which is not only expensive, but seriously limits your choices for compounds.
    I don't know of a single Alcon caliper that has this problem. All the motorsport range is heavily shared with AP Racing and Brembo, and the Advantage Extreme stuff is shared with Jaguar, HSV and Porsche road cars, so even manufactures that don't make pads for race calipers normally, have pads for the Advantage Extreme ones.

  20. #20
    gslrallysport.com gslrallysport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fnlow View Post
    This thread is relevant to my interests. Have you seen this? http://www.brakesdirect.com.au/alcon-big-brake-kit-sale
    That link is a little out of date. The rotors we supply now in those kits are the Forza ones, which are curved vane, forward facing curved slot (same as Brembo motorsport).

    This is the 365mm rotor that would now come in those kits:

    http://brakesdirect.com.au/aus/ffd-3...-pcd-left.html

    Those rotors are completely interchangeable with the Alcon and DBA ones that proceeded it.

  21. #21
    gslrallysport.com gslrallysport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAZ914 View Post
    Be sure to research the availability of replacement discs.
    You may not need them for quite some time - will you be able to get them/make something else fit in a few years?

    I've seen a lot of people having to rework the brakes they got cheap because they can't buy replacement parts later on.
    Often that means custom hats to suit available rotors and/or brackets to move the calipers to suit, etc.
    Alcon discs?

  22. #22
    Opens GAZ914's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gslrallysport View Post
    Alcon discs?
    No brand in particular - just an observation about doing something 'cheap' in the beginning that turns out not-so-cheap eventually.
    Probably applies to a large portion of PF!
    Race Car: VT Commodore (Murray)
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    Quote Originally Posted by gslrallysport View Post
    The issue I have with the Cayenne brakes on a much lighter car is that the swept depth is way too high, which means a big heavy overweight rotor, and the subsequent ridiculous increase in unsprung weight. I'd be looking at a 54mm ish deep pad for something VL weight.
    Good point.

    Is there any reason not to take material off the pads so that they matched the swept surface of a light weight rotor? Apart from the hassle and wasted friction material.

  24. #24
    gslrallysport.com gslrallysport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    Good point.

    Is there any reason not to take material off the pads so that they matched the swept surface of a light weight rotor? Apart from the hassle and wasted friction material.
    Your pistons then wouldn't be in the middle of the pressure area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gslrallysport View Post
    Your pistons then wouldn't be in the middle of the pressure area.
    So if you take an even amount off the inside and outside of the pad it would be ok? The caliber would need to sit a bit further out so you would need enough wheel clearance to play with, relative to rotor diameter.

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