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Thread: machinist saga - bin it?

  1. #1
    ... niscort's Avatar
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    machinist saga - bin it?

    So.. stupid me for rebuilding a holden v6, but the latest issue with the workmanship/care in exchange for $ is bewildering

    the useless cunts at " Merv Gray Auto Parts & Machine Shop " were given a box of parts and handed a piece of paper asking for:

    overall inspect
    block : fit welsh plugs, fit new cam bearings, ignore balance shaft, hone cylinders
    heads : dip (wash whole)
    balance : rotating assy
    supply : mains, big ends and rings.

    simple easy job right.

    results...

    one piston deemed unsuitable due to out of round. no problem, i ordered a new set ex states. went 20" over, thus bore the block. 5 good pistons binned with out authority or query. my loss
    one flex plate bolt lost. no replacement
    heads stripped and one side seats cut. wtf. one valve collet lost. no replacement
    no welsh plugs fitted. rush about to find some when collected
    cam bearings fitted. front in reversed. ie no oil to timing gear. another didnt line up with gallery. ie no oil to main and opposing bigends. condition of journal under front bearing when removed


    top that off, all this took 11months to complete with consistent pestering.

    after accepting all that shit and moving on.. get to plastigauging the mains... oh, whats this? a scratch?? nup




    looks to be a casting flaw, certainly not something i want to install into this fuckin grenade

    so, now need another crank, and repay for balancing again.

    tldr.. crank looks fucked.. bin it or it and the whole fucking project
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  2. #2
    Unregistered User Permit Roadsailing's Avatar
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    Bin it and buy an ls1 from a wrecker, don't so much as clean the grime off it.

  3. #3
    Defective Faux Forg's Avatar
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    Why are you rebuilding a Mang? Is it supposed to be something special when it's finished?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin
    Chickens will slip under water in the cover of darkness like a seal team and FUCK YOU UP.

  4. #4
    Goat roper Motherfucker Jones's Avatar
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    What are you doing with this thing? Keep in mind its lived this long with that casting flaw and not spun a bearing
    Quote Originally Posted by RVK 355 View Post
    Hold it flat cunt

  5. #5
    Registered User dnegative's Avatar
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    11 months to bore a block and reco some heads.....

    Go buy another $200 mang and get it done again elsewhere
    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Fuck I'm retarded

  6. #6
    Single spinners club TMM's Avatar
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    A working mang in the hand is worth two in the bush. Just get one that runs and put 'er in. When it goes mang mang bang of natural causes, get another one for $27.50.

    mang mang mang


  7. #7
    Registered User ls400x's Avatar
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    Did they do that to the cam journal?

  8. #8
    ... niscort's Avatar
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    ideally being built cam'd and reliably tuned around 12+ psi through a 3852 size turbo. although the crank lived so far its something i wouldn't consider using relative cost to doing it right. straw that's broken my back on this engine really. just cant believe the saga its been

    journal damage, cant prove it wasn't replaced previous to my purchase of a vs wagon with low hundreds close to 10 years ago. but....
    the engine is the registered engineered engine in my merc, hence wanting it right as ive banged and replaced enough already, not as roomy in there
    ...Ford Escort Mk1 ca18det... ...w114/5 Moocedes benz turbo ecoV6...

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    I don't know how far out of canberra you are but I can do a rebuild on one of these for cheap. Fuck the pistons should've only been 500 max. You don't need to balance the crank either as they are external balance and the machine is only going to give you a minute amount hence why my machinist told me not to worry.

    The two inner cam bearings might need scraping I have NFI what they did to the journal?

    I can do the job right if you want.

  10. #10
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    Also second hand cranks can be had for less than the price of a re-grind let alone a weld flux and machine.

  11. #11
    Registered User mad_cow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S View Post
    I don't know how far out of canberra you are but I can do a rebuild on one of these for cheap. Fuck the pistons should've only been 500 max. You don't need to balance the crank either as they are external balance and the machine is only going to give you a minute amount hence why my machinist told me not to worry.

    The two inner cam bearings might need scraping I have NFI what they did to the journal?

    I can do the job right if you want.
    shop comes up as in tas.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad_cow View Post
    shop comes up as in tas.
    Well the work did look like they tried to cross a L36 with another L36.

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    The front cam journal was probably too loose, so it's been peened to push up ridges and hold the bearing in tighter. Very commonly done, nothing to worry about in a streeter engine, might worry about it in a super high RPM engine. Not something you *want* to have to do but it's a pretty normal way to save a slightly loose bearing bore without having to line bore and get oversize OD bearings. Works the same as knurling, and actually there are knurling machines made to do this kind of thing but they are pretty specialized and never seem to fit in the space you need to work in.

    Crank is junk, I'd never run that in anything. That casting flaw is in one of the worst spots for it, and I couldn't justify using the crank, unless it was ground undersize enough to totally remove it the flaw and the crank passed a magnaflux afterward. And then I'd still want to start with an unflawed crank, even if I was cutting undersize.

    A machine shop that cares about their work, would never have agreed to work on that crank to start with, after doing an inspection of it. The front cam bearing is one of those things that when it's the solution to an otherwise very expensive repair on a super common block, you do it, make sure the bearing goes in tight, and it's done. No need to worry about it.

  14. #14
    Defective Faux Forg's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced that it's a casting flaw. Looks to me like someone slipped with the die grinder while they were deburring the oil gallery. But, with Moo cranks being worth about $3.50, just replace it anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin
    Chickens will slip under water in the cover of darkness like a seal team and FUCK YOU UP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I'm not convinced that it's a casting flaw. Looks to me like someone slipped with the die grinder while they were deburring the oil gallery. But, with Moo cranks being worth about $3.50, just replace it anyway.
    $200.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    The front cam journal was probably too loose, so it's been peened to push up ridges and hold the bearing in tighter. Very commonly done, nothing to worry about in a streeter engine, might worry about it in a super high RPM engine. Not something you *want* to have to do but it's a pretty normal way to save a slightly loose bearing bore without having to line bore and get oversize OD bearings. Works the same as knurling, and actually there are knurling machines made to do this kind of thing but they are pretty specialized and never seem to fit in the space you need to work in.
    Yea na I would use oversized bearings if it were me. I know engine builders that detest scraping the bearings let alone knurling then scarping twice the amount as normal to correct the misalignment.
    Last edited by S; 19-01-18 at 04:02 PM.

  16. #16
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    machinist saga - bin it?

    For the price of a moomang if chance throwing boost in a stocker and rinse and repeat when the hyper pistons give up. When sick if blowing v6 get an lsjuan and throw 10psi at it until it throws a leg out then rinse repeat.

    I had a mate years back that was gung HO on making a moo work with boost, threw cash away and ended up with a 2jz conversion and sub 9s.

    Price of sound business walk away now
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  17. #17
    Single spinners club TMM's Avatar
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    Does 12psi really warrant a 'built' engine?

    Some shop down here was slapping 3540s on stock NA moos and running them at 17psi or something to make about 260rwkw. Seemed fairly reliable. Supermoos have a forged bottom end and don't really cost that much if you want more reliability/power

    Quote Originally Posted by S View Post
    $200.
    In what condition? Whole engine out of a VY with 200,000k and no major problems is worth about $100 where i live - that's come and get it pricing, you remove from engine bay, and take it away yourself. If someone has started taking parts off it, it's worth even less than that.
    Last edited by TMM; 19-01-18 at 08:34 PM.

    mang mang mang


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    Quote Originally Posted by TMM View Post
    Does 12psi really warrant a 'built' engine?

    Some shop down here was slapping 3540s on stock NA moos and running them at 17psi or something to make about 260rwkw. Seemed fairly reliable. Supermoos have a forged bottom end and don't really cost that much if you want more reliability/power


    In what condition? Whole engine out of a VY with 200,000k and no major problems is worth about $100 where i live - that's come and get it pricing, you remove from engine bay, and take it away yourself. If someone has started taking parts off it, it's worth even less than that.

    No super moo has forged internals there was a small number probably less than 500 VY series 2 commodores that had the series 3 powder metal rods but they still had hyper pistons, the rest where cast conrods. I paid 200 for a crank from a second hand engine parts supplier in melbourne a whole engine is $500 anything that is on face book is a gamble weather the journals actually measure up.

    Also it probably mystifies your small brain as to why I would pay $200. Well a engine is $500 and a regrind is $300 quite fucking simple this is why they price the crank at $200 so they get a sale.
    Last edited by S; 19-01-18 at 09:05 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by S View Post

    Yea na I would use oversized bearings if it were me. I know engine builders that detest scraping the bearings let alone knurling then scarping twice the amount as normal to correct the misalignment.
    Price up a set of oversized OD bearings and a line bore, tell me you're gonna spend $450US on a moo block...and you're still not gonna be scraping bearings in.

    I haven't had to scrape a modern cam bearing in ever, actually, as long as I get them in straight.
    Last edited by Xnke; 22-01-18 at 06:23 PM.

  20. #20
    ... niscort's Avatar
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    definitely cursed.

    picked up a 100 complete engine, got excited as i was pulling it down due to being the cleanest engine ive ever pulled... this changed when i saw the big ends had been numbered... and confirmed once the crank was out, id say the big end got noisy.. the be bearings were replaced, however there was still shit in the oil as they were rooted along with the mains and main journals, all scored and on bottom tolerance for size. Binned.

    Second engine was a freebie. one of the dirtiest. bearing wear is good, size at top end of tolerance.. however it has been sitting around and moisture had gotten into the groove on the main jornal (one only) and the journal had grown some rust..

    I have cleaned it off.. result as pictured.

    Anyone want to comment of viability before i take the time off to deliver to reconditioner for linishing and balancing??



    ...Ford Escort Mk1 ca18det... ...w114/5 Moocedes benz turbo ecoV6...

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  21. #21
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    That might come out in the polish, actually.

    I wouldn't worry about it too much if it passes a mag check.

  22. #22
    Registered User dnegative's Avatar
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    Its not in the bit that does the work;
    What its measure at?

    If your looking to blow the clearance out a touch, yeah will probably linish/polish out.
    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Fuck I'm retarded

  23. #23
    Resident Oaf Jim's Avatar
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    Cam bearing looks to me like they dug it out with a screwdriver.
    Turns out, far too much has been written about great men and not nearly enough about morons


    Quote Originally Posted by seedyrom
    my neighbours called the cops...... not because of the sound of me working in the garage was too loud, but because i taped a cardboard box to my back, covered my self in vaseline and pretended i was a snail on their lawn

  24. #24
    ... niscort's Avatar
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    got any figures on how much gets removed on diameter with linishing? typically

    Journals are on middle tolerance atm, but I have already purchased the acl race bearings ie.. +1 thou clearance
    ...Ford Escort Mk1 ca18det... ...w114/5 Moocedes benz turbo ecoV6...

    Real Cars Are Built Not Bought

  25. #25
    Defective Faux Forg's Avatar
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    Does that rusty bit run in the oil groove in the bearing shell, and does the groove run 360 degrees around the bearing? If so, the rusty part would never see any bearing load.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin
    Chickens will slip under water in the cover of darkness like a seal team and FUCK YOU UP.

  26. #26
    Registered User Galantman's Avatar
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    wow, really surprised to here this from them. I've used them consistently for 20 years and yes they can be and normally are slow, but have been faultless in workmanship in my dealings.

  27. #27
    ... niscort's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    Does that rusty bit run in the oil groove in the bearing shell, and does the groove run 360 degrees around the bearing? If so, the rusty part would never see any bearing load.
    only about 30% of the one shell ive seen.. is the 3rd journal with the thrust combined. all wrapped up in the naughty corner again

    Quote Originally Posted by Galantman View Post
    wow, really surprised to here this from them. I've used them consistently for 20 years and yes they can be and normally are slow, but have been faultless in workmanship in my dealings.
    Yeah, thats the worst part, ive used them before with a lot more coin invested than this v6, which honestly went fine. this time however.

    Still haunt legana? ill keep an eye out
    ...Ford Escort Mk1 ca18det... ...w114/5 Moocedes benz turbo ecoV6...

    Real Cars Are Built Not Bought

  28. #28
    Registered User Galantman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niscort View Post
    Still haunt legana? ill keep an eye out
    i do, but the yellow beast is long gone, now a maroon vr4 with all the go fast bits, needs some TLC on the body though.

  29. #29
    on hoes? yohoes's Avatar
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    Do you buy 10x wrecker motors hoping to end up with good parts, or do you just buy new shit and save yourself the fuck around?

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