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Thread: MIG recommendation for panel work?

  1. #1
    あなたの母親の肛門 Shifty's Avatar
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    MIG recommendation for panel work?

    Did this many years ago. Time to do another car.

    Just stitching panels/patches with repeated intersecting tacks & grinding to clean up. Fair bit of real estate to cover so want something that's not going to be a pain in the ass, but if I'm honest it won't have a huge amount of usage outside this (or after the job is finished) so I don't want to go to overboard.

    Dollars wise probably want to get away with a little over a grand for the mig setup. Bottle and gas on top - hotness/recommendation in bris for that)?

    Probably prefer to edge into an enthusiast-grade Lincoln or something rather than a no name brand / trade tools / whatever unless one comes highly recommended and saves me good coin with a decent warranty (read: I'd prefer to spend the money than spend 80% of it and be unhappy).

    Ideally something with clear (eg. Click type or clear LCD display) settings rather than a dial that is going to be "better" but less repeatable.

  2. #2
    あなたの母親の肛門 Shifty's Avatar
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    NB: something that I don't have to mess with eg needing an upgraded liner or some shit, stuff that isn't 'warranty' but you learn in a month then find out on Google everyone had the same problem but it didn't come up in more general research before purchase.

    Don't want all singing all dancing, just want competent and hassle free.

  3. #3
    あなたの母親の肛門 Shifty's Avatar
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    Cigweld 185 $649, Lincoln 180c $1100ish..... how far wrong am I going at half the price for the stated use?

    I notice the Lincoln warranty prettymuch excludes everything useful anyway (torch etc) after 90 days... makes me a bit windy about a $1100 purchase.

    Couldn't find cigweld warranty doc online but assume just as restrictive. I figure if they're both going to break maybe buy the cheaper one and budget for headaches?

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    I bought a cig weld transmig175i 3 years ago for some panel work on advise from someone on here. Its been perfect for what I need. Has a reasonable quality tweco torch which has given no trouble, the wire feed system works fine and it takes the big 5kg rolls. was $800-$900 from memory?

    A mate has a cheaper spec cigweld machine (similar output rating, not sure exactly which model) and its hopeless.

    I also bought a roll of silicone bronze wire for non structural repairs, its fantastic. less heat/panel distortion, really easy to linish welds back to flush. Highly recommended.

  5. #5
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    I did the Alfa with a basic 180amp mig from tradetools. I think it was about $450 back then.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

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    http://www.weldtronic.com.au/weldtro...ing-equipment/

    After the experience with my Tig, and the guys in Melbourne who designed and spec the equipment answering the phone in 2 rings... if I grab a MIG itíll be one of those little 190/200a fuckers. Parker torch and wire sheath hardware, not yumcha.

    State of the Arc in Capalaba stock them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosshoggett View Post
    If your planing to drive this on the road and enjoy it, id suggest a second opinion, someone with a history in Australian Rally or Fink River . If your just playing dyno comps. Then ok

  7. #7
    あなたの母親の肛門 Shifty's Avatar
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    Spoke to them, they recommended nothing but a Lincoln transformer MIG unless I wanted to end up with bigger repairs than I started with. Incidentally the Kemppi wasn't on the list but the recommended against that as a private ownership model, they reckoned the longevity of the transformer models will kill any of the inverter stuff long-term.

    Great if you are going to smash the hell out of it in the warranty period like a shop would, but for private ownership where you might use it flat out for two weeks and then not touch it again for 2 years they recommended against it unless you want to risk owning a welder you only get two weeks use out of before it needs a spendy repair.

    So looks like a 180C. Found online cheap as, feel bad not buying from them but if they're 30% off the mark I can't cop that for good service. I'll just use then for my consumables.

  8. #8
    あなたの母親の肛門 Shifty's Avatar
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    Recommended against cheap cigweld, and the more expensive cigweld will do it but getting up near a grand for that they then recommended the lincoln. Again this is for my specific use of car panels only. They said the cheaper stuff is fine but doesn't have the stability for finer jobs... Arnie for $400 or Bruce Lee for $1k

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    Had a 180C for years and loved it. Sold it on and its still getting use doing car panels.

    Now have the inverter model, but as the Lincoln agent said at the time, this (the 180C) is the
    pinnacle of transformer 200A grade welders.
    Radical SR3
    HSV R8

  10. #10
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    Iím in the same boat, got the e21 that needs some new metal in the boot and while Iíd love a Mig to have around lack of projects id finish the car and it would sit in the shed for the spiders to live in.

    Happy to throw 400 odd, even second hand but 1k before gas & accessories I just canít justify it
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

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    Am I missing something? How do you destroy an inverter welder in 2 weeks? Iíve always used transformer MIGís so Iím happy buying one but should I not touch the inverter ones? Atm Iím not welding much but normal use in what I do is once a week to do a few little welds them some major stuff every 3 to 4 months.

  12. #12
    あなたの母親の肛門 Shifty's Avatar
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    My (second hand) understanding is that its more you have a $1700 welder sitting around for years that you rarely use, and if there's a failure of the more advanced electronics inside then you are stuffed - transformers more hardy likely to go for 10+ years and if they fail they are both a cheaper fix and also likely repairable rather than tear out a part worth 80% of the cost and replace it on your own dime outside warranty.

  13. #13
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Guys, stop overthinking it. The $400 trade tools units are good enough for panel work, and last forever. Mines up to 8 or 9 years old now. Put the extra $600 in your pocket for other shit in the project.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

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    So im in a similar boat to Shifty here. Been wanting to get a cheap mig to do sheet metal stuff and really basic shit [need to learn how to use it first] so a fancy $1500 machine is wasted on me. The question I have is how bad are the Bossweld stuff that bunnings sells? Have a whole heap of vouchers I can use so buying something i actually want is preferred...

  15. #15
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    2 year warranty - give it a burl.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  16. #16
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    Guys, stop overthinking it. The $400 trade tools units are good enough for panel work, and last forever. Mines up to 8 or 9 years old now. Put the extra $600 in your pocket for other shit in the project.
    that seems to suit my interests, will acquire from our mexican equivalent of TT
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

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    I used a 200$ Tractor Supply MIG for years. It never broke, and I fought to get good welds and solid penetration. But when I gave up fighting it and bought my Hobart 180, I realized what a fight it was to use and I'll never go back. Mid-range machines are lightyears ahead of the bottom dollar tools.

  18. #18
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    The only issues I've had with mine have been caused by bullshit humidity making the migwire go rusty - i tend not to store the wire in the machine anymore.
    The really cheapy BOC unit (Wirewasp?) I had before was a piece of shit, was a gasless only machine that I converted (flipped polarity etc) but it never really welded that well.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  19. #19
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    I used a 200$ Tractor Supply MIG for years. It never broke, and I fought to get good welds and solid penetration. But when I gave up fighting it and bought my Hobart 180, I realized what a fight it was to use and I'll never go back. Mid-range machines are lightyears ahead of the bottom dollar tools.
    I agree, wonít be buying the $200 eBay special. But for a home hack for what I want to do Iím sure a cheaper unit will suffice. I have proper CIG for structural stuff and if I need a proper welder have access to good gear at our yard.

    I helped a mate years ago weld a tray for his Ute, has this gasless mig that persist as I did was just complete junk, he didnít want to pony up for something else so I gave up was too frustrating having to weld the same thing several times to get 80% right
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    I used a 200$ Tractor Supply MIG for years. It never broke, and I fought to get good welds and solid penetration. But when I gave up fighting it and bought my Hobart 180, I realized what a fight it was to use and I'll never go back. Mid-range machines are lightyears ahead of the bottom dollar tools.
    I dont think the cheapness of the machine will be the limiting factor to weld quality....moreso the monkey operating it being no good in this case! Surely it would be penetration thats the important thing given its use [cheap machine with shit cunt like me operating it] as the rest can be flapped clean? Difference in price between a low spec and mid spec machine can fall between have, and have not.

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    Half Shafted. Madhatr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    The only issues I've had with mine have been caused by bullshit humidity making the migwire go rusty - i tend not to store the wire in the machine anymore.
    The really cheapy BOC unit (Wirewasp?) I had before was a piece of shit, was a gasless only machine that I converted (flipped polarity etc) but it never really welded that well.
    Aside from not using 15kg rolls, Go on ebay, buy some big desiccant bags cheap, place one inside the wire feeder cabinet out of the way of the feeder (obviously). If it works here, it'll work anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buford T. Justice
    This happens every time one of these floozies starts poontangin' around with those show folk fags.

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    HDSTV Gus The Snail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F3ARED View Post
    I dont think the cheapness of the machine will be the limiting factor to weld quality....moreso the monkey operating it being no good in this case! Surely it would be penetration thats the important thing given its use [cheap machine with shit cunt like me operating it] as the rest can be flapped clean? Difference in price between a low spec and mid spec machine can fall between have, and have not.
    You would wish this was the case-it's not.

    MIG welding, you give a monkey a good machine and he'll do good work once it's setup. Give a pro a shit machine and he'll struggle, even with a perfect setup. The issues are that the cheap (200-270$ USD) machines don't have good voltage control, don't have good steady wire feed, and both of those things contribute significantly to quality welds. MIG welding is a constant-voltage, constant gap method and relies on those two things being tightly regulated and controlled. If the machine doesn't do that, i.e. the wire feed speeds up and slows down with machine load, then you will *never* get a good result.

  24. #24
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    You would wish this was the case-it's not.

    MIG welding, you give a monkey a good machine and he'll do good work once it's setup. Give a pro a shit machine and he'll struggle, even with a perfect setup. The issues are that the cheap (200-270$ USD) machines don't have good voltage control, don't have good steady wire feed, and both of those things contribute significantly to quality welds. MIG welding is a constant-voltage, constant gap method and relies on those two things being tightly regulated and controlled. If the machine doesn't do that, i.e. the wire feed speeds up and slows down with machine load, then you will *never* get a good result.
    While that's a concern when laying a decent bead, when doing car panel work with the series of tacks approach, it's not an issue.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  25. #25
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    If you are really keen can always lead fill between your welds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  26. #26
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkman Don View Post
    If you are really keen can always lead fill between your welds.
    There's no gap between the welds unless you're doing half a job.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  27. #27
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    There's no gap between the welds unless you're doing half a job.
    Shouldnít but if anyone isnít too crash hot on a mig and ends up with holes itís a better option than bog
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  28. #28
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkman Don View Post
    Shouldnít but if anyone isnít too crash hot on a mig and ends up with holes itís a better option than bog
    Copper backing block will save one's arse in that case.
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  29. #29
    Ellis Juan mizone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gus The Snail View Post
    You got one Gus?

    Any good?

  30. #30
    あなたの母親の肛門 Shifty's Avatar
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    I ended up with a Lincoln 180C with trolley for $1100 through Adelaide Tools.

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