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Thread: Working OS

  1. #1
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    Working OS

    Needing to take advantage of the PF Brains-trust.
    I possibly have an offer to work in India, being employed by an Indian company and am wondering what the options are, especially tax implications etc.

    What would be different scenarios?

    Iím not planning on moving there, but I might be stationed there for periods of time, as well as working here, but still employed by them.

    I know this is a bit vague, but they are flying Nopics and I there in early March to discuss the options, and I would like to go for-armed with info if possible.

    Thanks in advance


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  2. #2
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    Have you spent anytime there in the past ?

    Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses.


  3. #3
    Formerly a stupid_cunt fly510's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    Have you spent anytime there in the past ?
    i was about to ask the same thing. In case you havent i doubt you'll want to visit there again let alone work there after your first trip.
    RB26......................Again

  4. #4
    No I'm Not Shonky Shonky's Avatar
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    Fuck that.

  5. #5
    Registered User PXL265's Avatar
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    Another vote for fuck that....

    But in terms of tax, a lot depends on the type of work, and how you will be paid and by who.

    The 180 day off shore tax shit went away a long time ago, it now depends on whether you meet the requirements of being a resident for tax purposes.

    In my case, I work in Indonesia, last year for nine months over the year, this year will probably be the same, but pay Australian tax.

    I am also set up as a Pty ltd company, so it will be slightly different than a normal salaried person.

    This is because I am contracted through an Australian company and paid from Australia into Australian bank account. It's easier for me to do it this way, and ultimately cheaper for me.

    When I had the contract in the Philippines, I was still classified as an Australian resident for tax purposes, the only difference was I didn't have to pay GST to the ATO as I was paid directly by the Philippines branch if the company, not through Australia.

    You also have to careful that you don't get hit with tax from both countries too.

    Best to talk to your accountant about it after you look at the ATO site. Here is a link for tax residency....

    https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/I...tax-residency/

    Hope that helps a bit.

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  6. #6
    Registered User mad_cow's Avatar
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    If you don't want ATO to ream you, you will have to pay AU taxes. Unless you are able to show you are away for 183(?) days a year to not incur tax.



    **Not a tax person

  7. #7
    Registered User PXL265's Avatar
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    Nah, the 183 days away thing ended years ago.

    Basically if you are being paid in India by Indian company in Indian bank account and pay indian taxes and Australia has a tax treaty with India then you may just pay indian taxes if the ATO considers you a non resident for tax purpose. If no treaty you can end up paying indian and Australian taxes if you are considered an Australian resident for tax purposes.

    You need to determine how ATO will treat you as a tax resident first to then work out how you go from there.

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  8. #8
    Super Moderator Morgs's Avatar
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    Good advice above...

    I would be hesitant based on the lifestyle alone. If you can get a free flight over to see what the day to day might look like then that'd be a beneficial exercise. India isn't for everyone....
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    Ironically in same boat. Job offer to go work over there, unsure Iím keen.
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  10. #10
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    It really depends where the expats are based. I haven't been to India, but certainly my fair share of "developing" countries and they can be tolerable if gated communities are provided with minimal travel time. Sometimes even just the local living conditions are quite nice in certain areas.

    Tax wise PLX is bang on the money, not needing to double up on tax if you've already paid it in a manner which suits Indian tax laws.
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  11. #11
    Formerly a stupid_cunt fly510's Avatar
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    my comment earlier is based on 4 trips over the last 5 years all of which have been around a week in duration. Even if you could find a gated community to your liking I just cant see any appeal to living over there unless your getting paid C level money plus big yearly bonuses.
    RB26......................Again

  12. #12
    No I'm Not Shonky Shonky's Avatar
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    My comment is based on 3 weeks at a time about 5 or 6 times so a reasonable chunk in total. Would want to be at least double my wage here + living expenses, flights home etc for me to even consider it.

  13. #13
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    The job is in Ahmedabad. I was there in July with my current company.
    Out of the blue, I was contacted in December by a previous work colleague from a totally different industry with a ďmoney is no problemĒ opportunity.
    Itís definitely worth exploring, but I want to go to meeting with my eyes wide open.
    It may even put me into PF baller status.


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  14. #14
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    I do a lot of business in India - have both employees and clients there. The scale of things happening there are huge thus opportunities are great. If you have the dollars the lifestyle is pretty good. However I would initially be skeptical working for a unknown or smaller company (startup world littered with unpaid staff left stranded). I also know of many expats who have moved for few years there and most got top taxation and package advice from someone like PWC to cover themselves (healthcare/insurance/living conditions& standards/travel back home/leave/additional allowance etc etc). India no longer is cheap place to to live/rent - I pay more in office rent in Mumbai than in Sydney. Bureaucracy will frustrate you from get go - simple things like opening a bank account to finding a rental place - larger companies would have support around to assist you in all those aspects.
    If there is anything specific you want looked at like research background of company you joining etc feel free to PM me and ill get someone to do that.

  15. #15
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    Thanks mate. PM sent

    Quote Originally Posted by 200 View Post
    I do a lot of business in India - have both employees and clients there. The scale of things happening there are huge thus opportunities are great. If you have the dollars the lifestyle is pretty good. However I would initially be skeptical working for a unknown or smaller company (startup world littered with unpaid staff left stranded). I also know of many expats who have moved for few years there and most got top taxation and package advice from someone like PWC to cover themselves (healthcare/insurance/living conditions& standards/travel back home/leave/additional allowance etc etc). India no longer is cheap place to to live/rent - I pay more in office rent in Mumbai than in Sydney. Bureaucracy will frustrate you from get go - simple things like opening a bank account to finding a rental place - larger companies would have support around to assist you in all those aspects.
    If there is anything specific you want looked at like research background of company you joining etc feel free to PM me and ill get someone to do that.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Sicarius123 View Post
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  16. #16
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    Ok, things are moving forward...
    No-pics and I have just returned from an 8-day jaunt totally at their expense. I spent most days in the office there, and have given them with a 5-page report of what I think they need, and how I could provide it.
    Originally it looked like a tech role, but now appears to be more of a management/leadership gig.
    Just over a day after I sent the report, I receive a reply asking for "a way forward document with priorities, costs and my expectations"

    So, now I need to work out what it's worth to me. It will be over there for a minimum of one year, and possibility to extend. No-pics is keen, and would follow me in a year if extended. (They had pathways for her uni-based STEM work there as well)

    What is a decent salary that a Indian company would pay to an Aussie in a management position? What other conditions should I be looking at?

    This is my list so far:
    AUD$225K + super + bonus (Should I negotiate this in USD?)
    Relocation assistance (initially and again for no-pics if extended)
    4 return flights home per year
    Accommodation + maid + cleaner + cook
    Car + driver
    Accountancy assistance for tax purposes

    That's what we come up with. Is there anything we've missed?

    Some friends have said $200k is not enough...
    In my last position at manager level in an aussie manufacturing company, the package would now be worth about $135k incl super, so that's all I have to compare it to.
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  17. #17
    Brian Fantana SkidFace's Avatar
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    I have zero experience in what you are asking but feel that asking for 300k plus your list of stuff would not be unreasonable.
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    They sort out any immigration and dept of labour stuff (visa/work permit etc etc).

    Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses.


  19. #19
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Don't forget to ask them to do the needfull.
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  20. #20
    Registered User jezza323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    Don't forget to ask them to do the needfull.
    and revert back
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  21. #21
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    Will the driver hold a towel up whilst you lay cable on the street or will that require another employee/aid ?

    Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses.


  22. #22
    Registered User PXL265's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_geez View Post
    Ok, things are moving forward...
    No-pics and I have just returned from an 8-day jaunt totally at their expense. I spent most days in the office there, and have given them with a 5-page report of what I think they need, and how I could provide it.
    Originally it looked like a tech role, but now appears to be more of a management/leadership gig.
    Just over a day after I sent the report, I receive a reply asking for "a way forward document with priorities, costs and my expectations"

    So, now I need to work out what it's worth to me. It will be over there for a minimum of one year, and possibility to extend. No-pics is keen, and would follow me in a year if extended. (They had pathways for her uni-based STEM work there as well)

    What is a decent salary that a Indian company would pay to an Aussie in a management position? What other conditions should I be looking at?

    This is my list so far:
    AUD$225K + super + bonus (Should I negotiate this in USD?)
    Relocation assistance (initially and again for no-pics if extended)
    4 return flights home per year
    Accommodation + maid + cleaner + cook
    Car + driver
    Accountancy assistance for tax purposes

    That's what we come up with. Is there anything we've missed?

    Some friends have said $200k is not enough...
    In my last position at manager level in an aussie manufacturing company, the package would now be worth about $135k incl super, so that's all I have to compare it to.
    I would up the salary to 275K to give a little wiggle room. You will miss the lifestyle of Ausd and you will hate the place at times, so you need decent coin to make up for it.

    USD would probably be better, but have a look at the cross rates between USD, AUD and Rupee. If the AUD/Rupee rate is relatively stable compared to the USD go with AUD for ease of conversion.

    Relocation should be at their expense and should cover all costs such as fitting out your rental home, also specify the standard of accommodation, e.g. 4 star, major world city. Depending on what you would be leaving here, relocation expenses should also cover storage for stuff in Australia like furniture and secure appropriate car storage.

    For flights, specify anything over 2 hours is to be minimum business class for international, try the same for domestic, but most contracts I have dealt with will specify 4 hours for domestic.

    Accommodation, as above, they pay and must be minimum of 4 star world city standard, i.e. 4 star for Sydney, London, New York, Hong Kong, you don't want to be stuck in a shit hole of a house for 12 months. Maid/cleaner/cook is at their expense.

    Car and driver, specify if just to/from work or at your beck and call 24/7. Get 24/7 if you can, better to have the "professional" to have the crash than you. I refuse to drive in Indo for that reason. If I am involved in a collision, and not my fault, it's still my fault because I'm a westerner with money, well that's how it is seen. I might get away with it because my nopics can fire up and swear and shout and bully with the best of them.

    You need to get the tax sorted pretty quickly, as in will you be taxed under Indian or Australian tax. As per my previous posts you need to determine whether the ATO will see you as a resident for tax purposes. Go with the one that will tax you less overall. There maybe stuff you can claim as deductions with storage and so on back here. They are to pay for your accounting advice and services, and use an expat tax specialist, I would suggest one of the big 4 would be the best bet.

    Have an exit strategy if it all turns to a heap of shit and feathers so you aren't left holding the can for leases, wages and so on.

    Also look at memberships to sporting or social clubs, e.g golf or country clubs, you need somewhere to go. Jump on line looking for expat forums in India and then for the specific area you are in, they should also help in getting you sorted out.

    And finally, if you do go, enjoy the adventure, it can be great, but it's also not for everyone. Just be mindful of culture shock, especially a place like India. I replaced a guy in Malaysia who after a couple of days refused to come out of his room as he couldn't cope, and KL would be my go to city to introduce someone who has never traveled to Asia.

  23. #23
    Formerly a stupid_cunt fly510's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_geez View Post

    Some friends have said $200k is not enough...
    In my last position at manager level in an aussie manufacturing company, the package would now be worth about $135k incl super, so that's all I have to compare it to.
    you dont have to post it here but does the bonus opportunity make up for the salary difference you're concerned about? Is the bonus discretionary? is it yearly? does it include a cash and LTI component such as shares or options?

    re tax thing im pretty sure he'd be a Aussie for tax purposes and do Tax equalisation if paid out of AU? im an IT guy not an accountant but when we expat here its always that way.
    Last edited by fly510; 15-03-18 at 02:45 PM.
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  24. #24
    Registered User PXL265's Avatar
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    Also, bank accounts, look at getting a citi or similar bank account to do multicurrency and multi country so you shuffle your money around as needed without the stupid international transfer fees, or to keep it simple get a citi bank account with debit mastercard and use it with no ATM fees and your money deposited into your Aussie accounts and just use the citi account for the day to day expenses.

  25. #25
    BLING BLING PLAYA's Avatar
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    Fuck bonus, that way they don't have to pay you.

    If you are going to a shit country for only 1 years work you are talking 130-170 per hour.

    Need to be doing around the 1500 a day rate to make it good.

    These are not out there rates, engineering in Aus is around that day rate, no problems. Rates in smelters in Phillipines 150US per hour.

    Don't short change your self and in a third world country. When you are shutting water it needs to still be worth it.
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  26. #26
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks guys.

    A proposal has been sent, with lots of the stuff you mentioned. I upped the salary to AUD$250k

    Let's see how it flies...
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  27. #27
    Registered User peal's Avatar
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    Couldn't pay me enough to live there. Phillipines or basically any other country would be a far better prospect.

  28. #28
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peal View Post
    Couldn't pay me enough to live there. Phillipines or basically any other country would be a far better prospect.
    I felt the same before and after my last visit in July. After spending a week there, and checking out a few things, I decided I could.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sicarius123 View Post
    Performance Forums, where our two best threads are a man stabbing a lawn mower and a lawn mower stabbing a man

  29. #29
    Gimme six Schlitzes Beavis's Avatar
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    I moved from Perth to Bamako, Mali (in West Africa) when I was 21.. it was a life-changing experience. Looking back, I would have asked for more pay and better perks, though I probably would have been denied. That said, the time I spent there was a mix of excruciating and magical; I am enormously glad that I did it.

    India is a pretty different place to Mali, and it's also different for you given that you have a family, but this is a fantastic opportunity for you to see & do something very different to what you're used to, and to do something that very few people (well, except for the Indians ) get the chance to do. It's a bit tricky to put a price on that.

  30. #30
    free hugs! Paddington's Avatar
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    Last edited by Paddington; 16-08-18 at 03:57 PM.
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