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Thread: Hotness in 4 bar map sensors

  1. #1
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ burn is weird's Avatar
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    Hotness in 4 bar map sensors

    Hi All,

    So I've pegged my delphi GM 3 bar map sensor now on E85 so need to throw a 4 bar in there.. whats the hotness? my sensor is in the cabin mounted near steering column so heat related sensor drift isn't going to be an issue.

    I've seen "GM style" 4 bar map sensors



    "motorsport" style sensor (i think these are a motorola?)



    or an "omni" branded one



    or even a 3.5bar AEM sensor



    ideal would be to use a GM style one as it would be plug and play, but i dont know if any reputable manufacturers actually make a 4 bar version of its just alibaba knock offs.

    thanks cunts
    Last edited by burn is weird; 09-02-18 at 01:24 PM.

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  2. #2
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    are you saying your emtron doesn't have a 4 bar on board like the haltech elite?

    #emtrontheworld

    (sorry cracka)

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    One of the 5 bar (absolute) sensors here? ; http://theknockbox.com.au/sensors/manifold-pressure/

  4. #4
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ burn is weird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim510 View Post
    are you saying your emtron doesn't have a 4 bar on board like the haltech elite?

    #emtrontheworld

    (sorry cracka)
    and thus ends the list of features an elite has over a KV8

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  5. #5
    Arrogant wankeler Slides's Avatar
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    I can probably email you a smiths racing price spreadsheet (the knockbox site elfturbo posted) if you want.

  6. #6
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ burn is weird's Avatar
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    All good,

    just ordered a 4 bar Motorola map sensor and an 8 bar variohm eurosensor for EMAP from them. pricing was very reasonable.

    I usually use honeywell MLH for everything but they don't do absolute pressure versions.

    thanks Chaps

    Alex
    Last edited by burn is weird; 09-02-18 at 04:42 PM.

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    Hotness is the Pajero OEM diesel sensors.

    I have four Volvo/ford TMap sensors (for reasons), but having a single bung combined temp and pressure with inbuilt CJ compensation that’s designed for manifold (vibration) mount sounds good to me.

    Plan is to use them pre turbo, post turbo, post intercooler and in plenum, then fuck a few off for shed/projects later.

    Emtron and Elite are comparable for sure, in the same way Jennifer Hawkins and Gina Rindheart are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosshoggett View Post
    If your planing to drive this on the road and enjoy it, id suggest a second opinion, someone with a history in Australian Rally or Fink River . If your just playing dyno comps. Then ok

  8. #8
    Arrogant wankeler Slides's Avatar
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    What range are they? I think most of the modern diesels have the combined TP manifold sensors but would be 3 bar absolute?

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    Manifold mount map/iat combined sensors are no good for an ITB rb26.

    Plan is to mount one of the 4 bar Bosch units in the plenum at some stage to use the throttle body flow model in the Emtron.

    It's on the wish list along with dbw itbs if I get around to it this year. Using an E46 M3 throttle motor

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim510 View Post
    are you saying your emtron doesn't have a 4 bar on board like the haltech elite?

    #emtrontheworld

    (sorry cracka)
    Haltech Elite only has a 3 bar map built in.

    1 On-board 3 Bar MAP sensor
    • Supports up to 200Kpa of boost (2Bar / 29psi)
    '06 Subaru Liberty Wagon 3.0R-B
    '03 Lexus IS300 2JZGTE

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    Quote Originally Posted by burn is weird View Post
    Manifold mount map/iat combined sensors are no good for an ITB rb26.

    Plan is to mount one of the 4 bar Bosch units in the plenum at some stage to use the throttle body flow model in the Emtron.

    It's on the wish list along with dbw itbs if I get around to it this year. Using an E46 M3 throttle motor
    Might be worth having a chat with Merlin on here, he's recently used them for an DBW ITB conversion and will know the pitfalls.

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    I would use the ti 5 bar map sensor.

    It has good range for both idle and boost, which isnt the case with some other sensors. I assume it will work on Emtron and Link ECU's

  13. #13
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    cossie can you clarify what you mean by that?

    are you saying the sensor/voltage response is non linear, or the low voltage cal limit of some sensors isn't low enough?

    as in 0-100kpa resolution is different to the 100-400kpa range?

    I would have thought a 0-500kpa sensor is the same as any other 0-500kpa sensor, save for temperature induced errors on the cheaper ones, that and I don't really care about the sub 20kpa range.

    while I'm at it, I'm going to install a boost pressure sensor (pre-throttle) which will allow me to use the throttle flow modelling of the emtron.

    question is, if i'm targeting a maximum boost of say 32psi after the throttle, what is a reasonable sensor range for the pre-throttle map sensor? im guessing even with the BOV, on a fast partial close of the throttle plates will cause the boost pressure to spike sharply. question is how high would be a reasonable guess?

    running the stock dual recirculating BOV of the rb26.
    Last edited by burn is weird; 12-02-18 at 12:24 PM.

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  14. #14
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    Sorry, took a while to check back.... For a manifold pressure sensor, you have to look at how far into vacuum your sensor can read. Some of the sensors that read higher boost, cannot read as far into vacuum. that is ok if your engine doesn't pull vacuum beyond that point. so for example, I have these numbers...

    Bosch 030 Map sensor has a working range of 10 kpa up to 115 kpa
    their 487 Map sensor has a working range of 20 kpa up to 250 kpa
    whilst their 655 map sensor has a working range of 50 kp up to 400 kpa (with a core measuring range of 70 to 360)

    So an Mx5 I am looking at has 30 kpa at idle
    My 1200 coupe is in the low 20's
    The Viper is in the mid to high 30's

    So, what does this mean.

    well an absolute pressure sensor used for manifold pressure readings reads 0-100 kpa abs is all the vacuum part of the range, >100 is the pressure side (I am sure that I am telling you stuff you already know, but anyhow)

    so a 250 kpa map sensor will not read outside a range of 20kpa in vacuum, and 150ksa of boost (taking off the 100 kpa of atmospheric pressure) 250 kpa = so this sensor will let you read down low enough in vacuum for any of the engines I see accurately, but only goes up to 21.7 psi of boost.

    The 4 bar map sensor will read only down to 50kpa.... but goes up to 300 kpa (43.5 psi).

    Why does this matter, well, when the car goes back to idle, the bottom 20 kpa will not register, so you cannot change fuel of ignition for any changes below 50kpa, as you cannot read the change. It means that it can be challenging to make it idle, and get off idle reasonably as you cannot read the map changes there....

    so that is why the Manifold pressure range is important...
    Last edited by cossie55; 19-02-18 at 09:16 AM.

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