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Thread: Heat cycling tyres in oven

  1. #1
    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    Heat cycling tyres in oven

    Always done this for new grooved radial slicks (Z214 R7 etc), but worth it for a 200TW street semi?

    http://www.gordonleven.com/zapped4racing/about/
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    Registered User Suscunt's Avatar
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    Whats the cost V return a set?
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    Registered User RP_Automotive's Avatar
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    Is this similar to running in a clutch or engine, which is also unnecessary yet extensively researched and championed by Motorsport nerds with OCD?

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    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RP_Automotive View Post
    Is this similar to running in a clutch or engine, which is also unnecessary yet extensively researched and championed by Motorsport nerds with OCD?
    Not really.

    There is plenty of evidence that proper heat cycling of race tyres is effective.

    In my experience, they last longer at optimum grip levels for more track days/heat cycles and taper off more slowly.
    However these were for sub 100TW.

    Tyre in question is the RE71R (200TW) but I think it's a lot lower than that in the real world.
    Original question remains, would a tyre like the RE71R provide more track days at optimum grip levels if heat cycling is performed?
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    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    I don't have any first hand experience of this.

    But it's interesting that Tire Rack offers a service for this, $15 a tyre, but they don't use an oven, they mount the tyres on rims, and run them against some rollers.

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret....jsp?techid=66

    At $15 a tyre I would say "why not" but NFI what such a service would cost locally.
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    Why can't this just be done in the first session of the day and/or at the local industrial estate on a Sunday, like everyone else does it?
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    Registered User PXL265's Avatar
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    Because according the oven website the tyres need 14 days or so to properly cure.

    Probably not an issue when you throw a new set every meeting, but when you are trying to get half a season or so out of a set of tyres it could be worthwhile.

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    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
    I don't have any first hand experience of this.

    But it's interesting that Tire Rack offers a service for this, $15 a tyre, but they don't use an oven, they mount the tyres on rims, and run them against some rollers.

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret....jsp?techid=66

    At $15 a tyre I would say "why not" but NFI what such a service would cost locally.
    About $30 from memory. Probably wrong.
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    Registered User Shane001's Avatar
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    $US15 to mount them on rims and run them on rollers is cheap.
    Much easier to just shove them in an oven and charge $30 for a little electricity lol.
    I think the roller option would have to be more effective?

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    Chopped BigMuz's Avatar
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    There's a lot of things going on beyond just the heat. My experience is that you're driving the oils out of the tyre in a controlled manner when you scrub and heat cycle tyres on your car. i don't see how baking them would do anything but make them harder.

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    Registered User Shane001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMuz View Post
    There's a lot of things going on beyond just the heat. My experience is that you're driving the oils out of the tyre in a controlled manner when you scrub and heat cycle tyres on your car. i don't see how baking them would do anything but make them harder.
    Exactly. When you heat cycle them on the car you're actually stressing the fibres in the rubber. Big difference to just heating them up in an oven.

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    Registered User lukevl's Avatar
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    I looked into this recently. The science makes sense and id try it if there was a cost effective option locally. Think of it as stress relieving the rubber. There is logic to it

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    So, in theory it should be possible to do this on a dyno also?
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    Registered User Shane001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy928tt View Post
    So, in theory it should be possible to do this on a dyno also?
    Yep would be pretty much the same as the way tirerack do it.

    Only difference with doing it on the track and doing it on a dyno / rollers is cornering stresses.

  16. #16
    Registered User lukevl's Avatar
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    How is it the same? The tyre ovens use a radiated heat source and roll the tyre around to heat it evenly. A dyno works the tyre

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    Registered User Shane001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukevl View Post
    How is it the same? The tyre ovens use a radiated heat source and roll the tyre around to heat it evenly. A dyno works the tyre
    tirerack doesn't use an oven. Click the link above. Interesting read.

  18. #18
    Registered User lukevl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane001 View Post
    tirerack doesn't use an oven. Click the link above. Interesting read.
    We are talking about the same thing. It's just a very inefficient oven that works like a meat rotisserie but with some level of heat retention through the cover.

    This is what I was looking at a while ago. Same thing but some different detail on why it is a thing- http://toyotires.com.au/toyo-blog/49...1-scrubbing-in

  19. #19
    Registered User Shane001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukevl View Post
    We are talking about the same thing. It's just a very inefficient oven that works like a meat rotisserie but with some level of heat retention through the cover.
    No, you didn't read the link. Tirerack specifically state they do not add any artificial heat. "There is no artificial heat added by an oven, forced air or heat lamp." They generate heat in the tyres by running them on the rollers. So heat is generated similar to running them on the track.

  20. #20
    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    Ive used both the Tirerac method (when many ordering Z214's over the years for the Turbo Taxi) and Gordon Leven oven method (on Hoosier R6/R7 sets).

    Both methods are effective but I prefer the science and consistency behind the oven method.

    I'm happy with their service and Bill knows his stuff.

    Unfortnately, I don't have the luxury of spending an extra day at the track just to heat cycle tyres the old fashioned way but I am sure this is also effective if done correctly.
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    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukevl View Post
    Same thing but some different detail on why it is a thing- http://toyotires.com.au/toyo-blog/49...1-scrubbing-in
    Nice description of process.

    Mentions OK for street tyres too, so will use this service again with the RE71R.
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  22. #22
    Hungry Hungry Hippo Tripper's Avatar
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    Wouldn't the running them on rollers also help remove the mould release agent?

    NFI on what effect a oven would have on it

  23. #23
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    Snake oil. Tyres are heated in the last part of the manufacturing process. They already have heated the rubber and the long chain molecular structure/bonds are already formed.
    Last edited by hrd; 20-06-19 at 03:11 PM.

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    Registered User StanM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrd View Post
    Snake oil. Tyres are heated in the last part of the manufacturing process. They already have heated the rubber and the long chain molecular structure/bonds are already formed.
    I tend to agree. I was reading an article from 1 tyre shop offering this service. They stated the heat treatment could double or triple the life of a tyre. If that was true, Iím pretty sure the tyre manufacturers would include this in their manufacturing process.

  25. #25
    Registered User nelsonian101's Avatar
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    I think the reality lies somewhere in between.

    If a tyre shop claims double/triple tyre life, then I'd be taking that saleman bullshit with a grain of salt.

    I do believe the heat cycle/cool down process has some merit when extending tyre life though.
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  27. #27
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    It seems that there is little debate about the worth of heat cycling/ breaking in new tyres.

    I think the TireRack method simulates the traditional method more closely, the question is whether it is simply a matter of heat to break in tyres or is the breaking in by putting the tyre under duress to create heat, of more advantage.

    I'd be inclined to believe that the tyre is breaking in in a more usefull manner by creating it's own heat under duress. I think in the end it is a matter of time and money, the TireRack method requires the tyres to be fitted to the rim whereas the Gordon Leven oven is used on the bare tyre which can then be shipped off to wherever the purchaser is.

    If I were a serious racing organisation I guess I'd have an inhouse machine to run up all tyres on their rims and it would also induce lateral loads onto the carcass to ensure all parts of the tyre have undergone a normalising procedure.
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    no mods, leave it stock Jack Nicholson's Avatar
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    Tire Rack mounts the tyre on their rim, does the break in process, takes the tyre off the rim, then ships it to you.
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    If Ray Hislop uses that system I'm sold on it. If anyone needs to get the best from their tyres Ray is the man, a big, heavy, angry V8 on undersized tyres, he has been at the front of IPRA for long enough to know what works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
    Tire Rack mounts the tyre on their rim, does the break in process, takes the tyre off the rim, then ships it to you.
    They'd want to have a decent selection of rims wouldn't they?
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