Pedal going spongy

[Hypo]

On the lancer I have been going to the track and everything has been fine.

Yesterday at QR my brakes started getting spongy towards the end of the 5 lap session so much so that I was double pumping to pull up going down the straight.

I checked the pads before going out and they had plenty left in them.

Once this occured in the first session I then quickly bled them before the next and still had the same problem.

They work fantastically for the first 3-4 laps and then start fading.

Running Penrite Sin, QFM A1RM pads and RDA slotted rotors.

I did improve my time yesterday by roughly 2 seconds over last time so whether I have found the limits of the above combination could also be causing the issue.

Any suggestions for something I should try and what could resolve the issue?

Assuming it isnt the booster as it is working fine for the first few laps.

Would the fading be due to fluid or pads?

Thanks for your assistance.

[myliberty]

could be wheel bearing too

[morerevsm3]

Originally Posted by myliberty

could be wheel bearing too

+1 probably disc moving enough to knock pads back

[rolin7]

What dot level fluid are you running? and what pads?

[willsy01]

I'd have thought if it were pad knock off that it'd happen at various points throughout the whole lap....not just after 5 laps.
Fluid is boiling perhaps?

[rowdytoot]

pics of pads and discs hypo?? any glazing or bluing?

I suspect you've reached the limit of the pads/discs to disipate the heat etc.

[AlexinPerth]

Toldya the brakes were shit on these..

Have you got the cooling vents (slots) in the front of the plastic guard liner?

[Hypo]

Penrite Sin Brake Fluid

TYPICAL PROPERTIES
Equilibrium Reflux Boiling Point (dry), oC 310
Equilibrium Reflux Boiling Point (wet), oC 198
Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt
at 100oC 2.6
at -40oC 1650
Colour natural
pH 8.6

AFM A1RM Pads
Formulation - Cold Friction - High Friction - Temperature (C)
A1RM - 0.40 - 0.48 - 0-780

Pictures of pads and rotors forth coming. I did however check and make sure that I had adequate pad before going out. It was about 75%.

I have not cut any vents yet in the inner guard. I was hoping to protect them due to prevent the water entering the car when driving.

[Hypo]

On a positive note I am out braking alot of cars on the circuit so this could also be contributing to my downfall.

[ar3nbe]

Generally, spongy pedal is fluid, and decent pedel but car not slowing down is pads.
Strange feeling pedal, but car still stopping can be brake lines.

Its possible that your brakes are heating up to much, and this excess heat is being transfered to the fluid.

[AlexinPerth]

The vents are cut into the later GSRs and evo 3s. From the factory.

Where the corrugations are on the lower front part of the guard liner, the vents are cut into there.

Don't worry about the water.

[rusty]

i think you mean out braking, but youre driving a mitsubishi afterall so its anyones guess

[dattoman1000]

Brakes are past their limit
Time to upgrade if you want to do any more than 3 fast laps in a row

Nothing really wrong with what you have its just past its limitations

[AlexinPerth]

dattoman, have you had experience with upgrading the brakes on these? What kits are available at what sort of coin?

Stock fronts are the same as a TJ magna.

[hrd]

The Penrite Sin is good fluid, but how old is it? the higher temp fluids are even more hydroscopic than normal brake fluid. age, recent rain and our high humdity might be getting to it. time to try a $35 flush before jumping straight to brake upgrades.

[RB30-POWER]

can you run ducts to the brakes, like those flexible ducts that mount to the strut or whatever for maximum cooling.

dodgy setup but first pic google pulled up

[Hypo]

Originally Posted by AlexinPerth

dattoman, have you had experience with upgrading the brakes on these? What kits are available at what sort of coin?

Stock fronts are the same as a TJ magna.

These are the same calipers that they also run on the EVO IV-IX gravel cars.

[dattoman1000]

So you have the 2 piston caliper
Not the Magna single pot

If its got the 2 pots... go buy some EVO Brembos and bolt on

[Hypo]

Originally Posted by dattoman1000

So you have the 2 piston caliper
Not the Magna single pot

If its got the 2 pots... go buy some EVO Brembos and bolt on

Unfortunately the EVO Brembos don't just bolt on.

I have already researched this option.

Opinions on these?

http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/brake_k...roduct_id=bk07

[dattoman1000]

If its got 2 pots now... then it should have the same mountings as EVO struts
Why do you say it won't bolt on ?
Tried ?
We bolted EVO Brembos to a Mirage with the same calipers once no dramas

That package looks alot like all those common Chinese ones getting around under about 20 different names
Small pistons, not much clamp force , no pad choice locally.
Only small... 280mm disc... bout the same as original... just thicker
Alot of money for maybe not alot of gain

[Hypo]

Originally Posted by dattoman1000

If its got 2 pots now... then it should have the same mountings as EVO struts
Why do you say it won't bolt on ?
Tried ?
We bolted EVO Brembos to a Mirage with the same calipers once no dramas

To mount up the EVO V/VI Brembos to the early model evos you need to make mounting brackets and redrill the larger discs to 4 stud. They will not bolt onto the CC model.

They might however fit a Mirage which is CE shape.

Ideally if I have to upgrade the brakes I would like to be able to still run 15 inch rims.

[Hypo]

Originally Posted by rowdytoot

pics of pads and discs hypo?? any glazing or bluing?

I suspect you've reached the limit of the pads/discs to disipate the heat etc.

They appear to be fine.

Can get better pics without wheels on later in the week.

[hrd]

fluid flush ftw

[dattoman1000]

Excuse my igorance... but there was nothing in any posts to say what model the car was
I'm still dubious on this mount bracket thing

[Hypo]

Originally Posted by dattoman1000

Excuse my igorance... but there was nothing in any posts to say what model the car was
I'm still dubious on this mount bracket thing

Not a problem.

Lots of people have tried and this guy succeeded with the plates.

Fronts


Rears


Some people have gone the 5 stud conversion with a EVO IV lower control arm and new hubs but this modifies the track and new wheels are required.

The issue with fitting rear Brembos is that on the EVOs they have the handbrake in the hub and not part of the caliper so I would be required to adapt or utilise a hydraulic handbrake.

[dattoman1000]

Well there you go
I knew about the rears and the handbrake issue... alot of people don't bother with the back so I didn't mention it

I should have had a better look at the strut today at my mates place
He's fitting some 295x28 2 piece discs and AP calipers to a Mirage atm

[AlexinPerth]

That conversion was done by perth brake parts. Really good job IMHO.

[dattoman1000]

Um
Doubt it
They don't have a workshop nor the facility to make a bracket
Nor anyone with half a noodle able to design it
They would have bought it in from east or contracted it local
Unless its one of Brents home jobs
Not Goodridge hoses either
And looks like a green hat... project Mu maybe
PBP might have sold him a set of pads once

[Hypo]

Would you like to recommend someone in Brisbane I could speak to about getting the calipers fitted. Whatever it is that I purchase.

[dattoman1000]

I would like to
But the only people I know in QLD are at The Brock Shop and not sure they play with lil cars