3SGE Beams vs SR20

[vet 180]

Originally Posted by JZK25

So does an SR20VE head have direct actuation of the valves rather than rockers and variable valve timing on inlet and exhaust? If the heads are that good why aren't turbo guys using them instead of the old SR20 heads?

Serious questions, I know nothing about the VE engines. Admittedly I could google and learn though.

P.S. I have a BEAMS altezza engine and 6MT for sale.

the sr20ve runs a vtec style roller rocker head. Reason why turbo guys dont run them is because like you many people dont know anything about the engine, they are harder to source, modification is needed for rwd format etc. I do have back to back dyno's of the same set up of ve vs de with a turbo. Its running a twin scroll s362.

as player said the p12 cams are 280deg, the sr16ve's are 280 also and 11.1lift, the sr16ve n1's are 288deg 11.9 lift. Mazworx have proven what the engines with a 154 1/8th mph.

also in relations to hoonboys's set up. If your talking simple set ups i would go

sr20ve $1100
N1/184c/franklin cams $700
Intake plenum $500

$2300 and will make plenty more than that de mentioned.

Here is a vid of that set up, running n1 cams

1.9 60ft
12.9
105.7mph
bolt on Ve

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1...e-r_160112.htm

[IMOA]

Just to reiterate an important point SR's don't have rockers, they have cam followers which are either siting on a hydraulic lash adjuster (DE and most DET), sitting on a solid shimmed pivot (GTiR DET) or threaded on a solid oil feed line with multiple followers in the same manner as hondas vtec (VE's)

Forg - I've never said you can get as much power from a DE as you can a DE, what I've said is that the RWD S14 DE's are underrated and for very minimal (ie a couple of grand on top of a purchase price around $500) you can get around the 240hp mark. Dumheads old hello kitty S13 was a great example of this, basically just had cams and springs, headers, 3" exhaust, RB20 maf and tuning

Random comments

13.5 isn't too high compression for an SR, the Autech SR20DE's have this standard

JZK25 - don't worry, we do.

P12 SR20VE head with an overbore bottom end (2.2) and a 3076

[profi]

Originally Posted by IMOA

13.5 isn't too high compression for an SR, the Autech SR20DE's have this standard

Sr's dont need more then 12.5cr due to the design of the engine, more then that starts affecting rpm ect.

[fly510]

Originally Posted by IMOA

Random comments

13.5 isn't too high compression for an SR, the Autech SR20DE's have this standard

JZK25 - don't worry, we do.

P12 SR20VE head with an overbore bottom end (2.2) and a 3076

Attachment 38924

I thought Autechs ran 11.7:1 standard?

[IMOA]

Whoops, yep, you're right, I had DE with 16VE pistons in my head

[fly510]

I was just nit picking anyway

[IMOA]

Fair nit pick

[HoonBoy]

So what comp can you get on a S14 DE with big cams before you have to replace the pistons?

[RA45GTCelica]

google say they have 11to 1 comp and make 152kws at 7000
nero just buy 1 altezza 3sge and put quads on that will get you near 140kws
get the motor and box from jzk25 as he is selling 1 and buy az m800 ecu so later you can do more mods .im still using a wet sump and still pulling 1.4 gs through corners with no surge
ps i will be at sandown tomorrow running around in the wet

[Nero]

is it the FFCC at Sandown?

[RA45GTCelica]

yes

[Nero]

Well can't get in then...need name on the gate I believe?

[RA45GTCelica]

your a member of piarc and your freiend is up at the sheds the 1s that are right near the fence ,near the dummy grid i will be there if you have any problems or you can ring me before 10 on 0412 045 v467 glenn b

[RA45GTCelica]

just a note here that HSD have a sr20 ve head at the moment and are doing porting work and also bigger valves and it will only make about 270 hp still down on the beams head which is over 320 hp at the same lift
proves that the beams is better all around

[PLAYA]

Originally Posted by RA45GTCelica

just a note here that HSD have a sr20 ve head at the moment and are doing porting work and also bigger valves and it will only make about 270 hp still down on the beams head which is over 320 hp at the same lift
proves that the beams is better all around

they must be idiots.

[HoonBoy]

270 does seem rather low...

[ALLMTR]

Originally Posted by RA45GTCelica

i just dynoed a fwd motor in my car that made 175kws at back wheels and was only single vvti but it cost more money than jamies motor did
port job forged pistons forged rods lightened cranks 2.5 kilos taken off it billett cams still cant get turkish billetts yet with the std steel valves port job by hsd valve springs and 48mm quads and only 12.5 to 1 comp and still some vvti as well
start adding things up rods and pistons 3000 grand head job 1300 throttle set including inlet and ramtubes 2550 inlet cam 1250 exhaust 500 valve springs 850 etc plus crankys machine bill including crank diet 2300 and before you know it 14000

That is an awesome result, right there!

Well done!

[RA45GTCelica]

all of there heads are done in 25inches of water and have had about 7 beams heads flowed and what they have told me is that my last head that i had done has been the highest flowed na head
it flows 296cfm at 600 thou lift and the exhaust is 230 cfm at the same lift these have 36 inlet and 31 for exhaust
i have the fwd and my 2 stage injection beams 1

[vet 180]

Originally Posted by PLAYA

they must be idiots.

damn straight. Must just be a mild build, oem cams standard short block and a bit of porting.

Originally Posted by RA45GTCelica

all of there heads are done in 25inches of water and have had about 7 beams heads flowed and what they have told me is that my last head that i had done has been the highest flowed na head
it flows 296cfm at 600 thou lift and the exhaust is 230 cfm at the same lift these have 36 inlet and 31 for exhaust
i have the fwd and my 2 stage injection beams 1

not bad figures for 25 inches.

[RA45GTCelica]

thats just what the head will flow and they have put bigger valves in as well they said it will most likely only flow about 270 hp in air which is about 250.2 cfm
the beams 3sge make about 290 hp std before you have to do any work on these
this guy only cleans up the inlet and opens up the exhaust port to flow about 80 % of the inlet
the beams comes with 2 sizes in valves from the factory 34.5 inlet and 29 .5 on the exhaust for auto and the manual has 35mm and 30 mm which are titatium on both
my new head has 36mm and 31 mm to get these new figures. the new cam has 550thou of lift on the bucket and 520 on the exhaust with 10 cam degress of movement on the vvti

[lonewolf]

i have a 20ve in my pulsar, does ~200hp at the hubs with just a set of OEM N1 cams/springs, and exhaust mods with a decent tune.

my DE with poncams and the same supporting mods made ~150hp.

There are some people in the states and NZ that know these motors very well, someone like Kelford can built a very stout motor that will make good power all day long.

you can get off the shelf 12.5:1 pistons and cams to suit.
Motors are only around $1900.

[tripper]

Who else votes that edo should pay for TK to port one off each head and give the results

[lonewolf]

20ve intake with light port work

[Nero]

Originally Posted by tripper

Who else votes that edo should pay for TK to port one off each head and give the results

And who would pay for this?

[PLAYA]

Originally Posted by tripper

Who else votes that edo should pay for TK to port one off each head and give the results

Originally Posted by Nero

And who would pay for this?

dunno

[HoonBoy]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

i have a 20ve in my pulsar, does ~200hp at the hubs with just a set of OEM N1 cams/springs, and exhaust mods with a decent tune.

my DE with poncams and the same supporting mods made ~150hp.

There are some people in the states and NZ that know these motors very well, someone like Kelford can built a very stout motor that will make good power all day long.

you can get off the shelf 12.5:1 pistons and cams to suit.
Motors are only around $1900.

What DE motor? Seems to be a big difference between models..

Originally Posted by tripper

Who else votes that edo should pay for TK to port one off each head and give the results

I'll supply the S14 DE head and even supply an engine to test it on. All because I am such a nice guy

Originally Posted by lonewolf

20ve intake with light port work

I haven't got a good pic of a clean head (this is a spare S14DE head) but they show a different shape for the inlet ports, much rounder on the S14DE compared to the VE

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by HoonBoy

What DE motor? Seems to be a big difference between models..

JDM 10:1 compression motor (rather than the aussie 9.5:1).

and yes, much more oval ports on the VE

the VE also has some other goodies, like the best of all sr oil pumps, and piston oil squirters etc

[2JZR31]

That's some impressive power out on an NA 2L. How does the S2000 engine compare?

[lonewolf]

its an interesting comparison, the s2000 runs higher compression, makes peak power at higher RPM, and has some better engineering.
the SR20ve is a long way behind out of the box, came only attached to CVT auto's (except the later P12 20v model), and a lot cheaper!

works well in n/a and turbo applications.
Guy in the states making 550hp atw with an unopened motor with large turbo.